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darwin

Part of the Furniture Now
Apr 9, 2014
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Ran across a wonderful bit of text from the Rudyard Kipling book The Tragedy of the Korosko, published in 1898, about a group of tourists in Egypt captured by marauding Dervish tribesmen. Toward the end the typical British retired colonel was graced with some tobacco after the group's rescue.
"Then he cantered after his men, and the old soldier leaned back against the rock and drew in the fragrant smoke. It was then that his jangled nerves knew the full virtue of tobacco, the gentle anodyne which stays the failing strength and soothes the worrying brain. He watched the dim, blue reek swirling up from him, and he felt the pleasant, aromatic bite upon his palate, while a restful languor crept over his weary and harassed body."

 

jvnshr

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Sep 4, 2015
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about a group of tourists in Egypt captured by marauding Dervish tribesmen
I haven't read the book however the interesting part is a Dervish would never capture someone or steal or act as a marauder. Dervish is a person who believes in universal love and lives in poverty (by choice), thus given up worldly pleasures.

 

aquadoc

Lifer
Feb 15, 2017
2,044
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New Hampshire, USA
But, according to Wikipedia, and we know how accurate that font of knowledge can be, "various western historical writers have sometimes used the term dervish rather loosely, linking it to, among other things, the Mahdist uprising in Sudan and other rebellions against colonial powers. In such cases, the term "Dervishes" may have been used as a generic (and often pejorative) term for the opposing Islamic entity and all members of its military, political and religious institutions, including persons who would not be considered "dervishes" in the strict sense."

 

jvnshr

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Aquadoc, there is nothing wrong with the information you found, that's historically correct. A religious guy named Muhammed Ahmad proclaimed to be Mahdi (the person prophesied in Islam to rule together with the Jesus in his Second Coming against the antichrist) and fought against the rulers. He was a dervish and his followers thought to be dervishes and according to the same source (Wikipedia)
Later, in order to distinguish his followers from adherents of other Sufi sects, he forbade the use of the word darwish (commonly known as "dervish" in English) to describe his followers, replacing it with the title Ansar
The point is there is nothing wrong with a dervish uprising and the word "dervish" could be used in a pejorative manner, however stealing or marauding cannot be associated with a dervish.

 

aquadoc

Lifer
Feb 15, 2017
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New Hampshire, USA
Understood. Authors use creative license to abuse or bend common words to their will with different meanings and it can lead to a colloquial and common misuse. For instance, the term whirling dervish and dust devil can refer to a small sand vortex or a Magic card that depicts swordsmen on horses wielding scimitars in a dust storm. The latter being marauders, which whirling dervish is now a simile in a metaphorical sense that has strayed far from the intended or original meaning.

 

jvnshr

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Sep 4, 2015
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Baku, Azerbaijan
Authors use creative license to abuse or bend common words to their will with different meanings and it can lead to a colloquial and common misuse.
Totally agree with this one. That's what I was trying to say.
For instance, the term whirling dervish and dust devil can refer to a small sand vortex
Wow, didn't know that they used whirling dervish as a term. Interesting.
or a Magic card that depicts swordsmen on horses wielding scimitars in a dust storm. The latter being marauders, which whirling dervish is now a simile in a metaphorical sense that has strayed far from the intended or original meaning.
That's what I don't understand. I mean there are tons of words in Persian that could have been used for marauders. The word assassin for instance, it originates from the word hashshashin (some claim it to be asasiyun) and used for the same purpose in both English and Persian. Probably someone found the word dervish very exotic and used it for his own reputation :)

 

jvnshr

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Which translates as "hashish eater"!
Totally right Jay, however it is more complicated. A guy named Hasan Sabbah captured a castle (today's Iran, south of Azerbaijan) and created his own group of killers in 11th century. It was a religious group and drug use was not common in those kind of groups. Hasan Sabbah was calling his followers "asasiyun" which means "believers of Asas". Asas means main, basis in Persian (also in Azerbaijani). Hasan Sabbah was a shia muslim who was the member of a Persian sect called Nizari Ismailis which split from Ismailis. Simply:
Islam -> Shia Muslim -> Ismaili -> Nizari Ismaili -> Hashashin
According to their belief each of the messengers was sent to the world with an Asas (an Ismaili dawa [dawa means invitation to Islam] hierarchy). Prophet Muhammed had Ali for instance or Jesus had Simon Peter (Saint Peter) as an Asas. The conflict between Sunnis (orthodox of Islam) and Shias began after the death of the Prophet Muhammed. Sunnis claimed that they should vote for the successor of the prophet (voted for Abu Bakr - close friend of the prophet), however Shias claimed that the heir is chosen by God therefore it should be someone from the prophet's family (Ali). That's where all that Asas thing comes from.
So those killers were calling themselves Asasiyuns (believers of Asas) and their enemies were calling them hashashins (drug addicts) by changing few letters to insult and belittle Hasan Sabbah and his followers. Some foreign travellers misunderstood the word and thought it to be hashashin as well. It was Marco Polo who wrote about them, saying "Hasan was drugging his followers and taking them to the valley with the rivers of wine, milk, honey and lots of fruit trees and girls. Once the follower done what Hasan has ordered, he was promised to be taken back to that heaven." The thing is Marco Polo has never been to the castle while Hasan Sabbah was alive and it is thought that while being in prison in Italy he heard this legend from the sailors. An archaeological excavation done by some Germans revealed no trace of such things and it was mentioned that there wasn't even enough space for that kind of things.
Sorry for the long post, I hope you will enjoy reading it :)

 

mawnansmiff

Lifer
Oct 14, 2015
7,423
7,367
Sunny Cornwall, UK.
HAWKWIND

"Hassan I Sabha (Assassins Of Allah)"

(Calvert / Rudolph)
Hashish hashin, hashish hashin

Hashish hashin, hashish hashin

Hashish hashin, hashish hashin

Hashishin
Black September, Black September

Black September, Black September

Black September, Black September

Black September
Death unto all infidels in oil.

Guide us o thou genie of the smoke.

Lead us to a thousand and one nights.

In the perfumed gardens of delights
Petro dollar, petro dollar

Petro dollar, petro dollar

Petrol d'Allah, petrol d'Allah

Petrol d'Allah
It is written

In the soul of the desert

It is written

In signs in the stars

It is written

In the sands of the hour-glass

It is written
It is written

In the eye of the falcon

It is written

In the shade of the scorpion

It is written

In the wealth of the sun

It is written
It is written

Man's truth is a mirage

It is written

That death's an oasis

It is written

For all unbelievers

It is written
Regards,
Jay.

 

jvnshr

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Poor Hasan Sabbah, you fight to earn a reputation and create the best army of the killers and then after 1000 years someone claims that you were a drug addict and dedicates a song to you. I enjoyed the music though.

 

aquadoc

Lifer
Feb 15, 2017
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How else to discredit someone's work than to attribute deeds considered nefarious, illegal, or damning in some sense. It is done everyday in American media where the victim of some crime becomes the guilty one because he might have smoked pot or been arrested in his prior life, thereby deserving death or injury. A poor metaphor but the gist.....

 

aquadoc

Lifer
Feb 15, 2017
2,044
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New Hampshire, USA
BTW,
Image.ashx


 

jvnshr

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 4, 2015
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Baku, Azerbaijan
How else to discredit someone's work than to attribute deeds considered nefarious, illegal, or damning in some sense. It is done everyday in American media where the victim of some crime becomes the guilty one because he might have smoked pot or been arrested in his prior life, thereby deserving death or injury. A poor metaphor but the gist.....
True and sad, Aquadoc.
And thanks for the picture. You see, they did the same thing to the dervish :)

 

fnord

Lifer
Dec 28, 2011
2,746
8
Topeka, KS
Wait a minute.
You wiseguys are saying that Mr. Kipling played it fast and loose with the word dervish, right?
So do I infer that Mowgli never existed? And that he wasn't raised by wolves? And Baloo the bear and Bagheera the panther didn't mentor the man cub?
You guys are assholes. Thank you for destroying everything I hold near and dear to my youth.
I desperately need a safe space on this board.....
Fnord

 

jvnshr

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Staff member
Sep 4, 2015
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Baku, Azerbaijan
Fnord, I think I have to tell you something about Santa :)
I have no problem with a writer creating a character with a weird background but calling a dervish as a marauder is like calling a monk as a hipster :) Actually dervishes are like the monks of Middle East.

 

darwin

Part of the Furniture Now
Apr 9, 2014
820
5
"Baloo the bear"
Thanks to Disney I can't think of Baloo without hearing Phil Harris' voice.
Also The Tragedy of the Korosko is a relatively unknown Kipling gem. A joy to read and quite pertinent to our time.

 
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