JOHN COTTON 47 7 Frederick St Edinburgh Scotland Saddle Billiard

dmcmtk · Sep 13, 2015

So, a question for the pipe detectives, who made this pipe? John Cotton obviously made tobaccos, but my assumption is this pipe was made by one of the English (or maybe it would be more politic to say British) pipe companies as a private label. Looking at it, on first impressions, I would RULE OUT Charatan's (their 47 shape is quite different), Barling's (shape 47 a taper stemmed poker) Comoy's (font for the shape number), Sasieni (I would expect the shape number to be in a different location). Also, to what date was John Cotton's open at this Edinburgh location? Dimensions, "Length is 5 1/4 inches long. Bowl height is 1 7/8 inches. 1.5 ounces or 44 grams."

clickklick · Sep 13, 2015

I just went to my Who Made That Pipe book, and unfortunately, John Cotton is not listed. Hopefully someone else may chime in.

ssjones · Sep 14, 2015

That is a pipe mystery. Google gave up zilch, save this silver chart.
http://www.silvercollection.it/DICTIONARYTOBACCONISTJ.html

dmcmtk · Sep 14, 2015

Stating to think GBD, from a 1961 GBD Flyer at pipepages - "9447 Thick Shank Billiard, Flat Saddle Mouthpiece". Now, the next thing I'm curious about, was the dates of this shops operation in Edinburgh.

misterlowercase · Sep 14, 2015

Dave,

slim pickin's from me,

hopefully jguss will see this,

I'm sure he has a JC file.
This pic may possibly be of Cotton's shop, hard to see,

and I cannot confirm it.
http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_street_p/0_street_views_-_princes_street_mackies_shortbread_lamp_post_062851_1024.htm
That pipe is a pretty hard nut to crack, but I think your hunch about GBD may be on the spot,

either them or one of the lesser known makers of which a good few were still active mid-century.

dmcmtk · Sep 14, 2015

That site is very cool Troy, one could get lost in it, and I mean that in a good way! From "Recollections",

"Purves was a tobacconist. As a young lad I was always entranced by the smell from the place and fascinated to see the men coming out with baccy for their pipes.
Other tobacconists in Princes Street were Harris, John Sinclair and John Cotton."

misterlowercase · Sep 14, 2015

That site is very cool Troy, one could get lost in it, and I mean that in a good way!

No doubt.
I spend a good deal of time bouncing around within haunts like that and love the looking.
There's an early photo of Thomson & Porteous workers there too,

http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_g_p/0_groups_and_outings_thomson_and_porteous_1907_yerbury.htm
...and this made me chuckle:

In the early 1960s, I appeared on the TV quiz show:
'Try for Ten'.
The question I failed on was “Is the Condor a bird that lives in the Andes?” For some daft reason the word Condor conjured up the tobacco advert and I answered 'False' missing out on £80; about 6 weeks' wages then.

:

:

dmcmtk · Sep 14, 2015

From another source,

View from south of 100 - 103 Princes Street, Edinburgh, showing cars and shop fronts, including Drummond Young, E. Pass & Sons, J.B. Green & Sons Ltd, Boots Chemists, Durie Brown’s Ltd, Hector Powe, John Cotton Ltd Tobacco Manufacturers, Over-seas House, Birrel and Hope Brothers. 1933

We just have to get to 7 Frederick St......jguss...?

misterlowercase · Sep 14, 2015

A little bit here...

http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/anybody-knows-john-cotton-latakia
And one of my favourite writers, Compton Mackenzie, often smoked Cotton's #2,

http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/famous-pipe-men-and-their-tobacco#post-813159
I'll continue digging this morning,

I only have a brief window though because I'm about to hit the road for the week.
Thanks for the prompt,

I do so enjoy such trekking thru the wilds of history.

: puffy

:

dmcmtk · Sep 14, 2015

John Cotton at 7 Frederick St as early as 1912-13.
http://www.mocavo.co.uk/Edinburgh-and-Leith-Post-Office-Annual-Directory-1912-13-Volume-1912-13/104706/134

misterlowercase · Sep 14, 2015

Oh, and I forgot,

this is the oldest Cotton's tin I've seen so far...

Sadly, many of the old adverts lack an address, so the sifting continues...

: puffy

:

misterlowercase · Sep 14, 2015

John Cotton at 7 Frederick St as early as 1912-13.
http://www.mocavo.co.uk/Edinburgh-and-Leith-Post-Office-Annual-Directory-1912-13-Volume-1912-13/104706/134

Good find.
This says 1918...

https://www.facebook.com/lostedinburgh/photos/a.265483623509328.64491.162922127098812/386907374700285/

...I am wondering if this photograph is taken outside John Cotton Tobacco Works in Sunnyside just off Easter Road. The business is listed in the 1912 Directory as: Cotton, John, Limited, tobacco and snuff manufacturer,

7 Frederick street (Telephone, 2694)

factory, 172 Easter road (Telephone, 5641). There is still a building in Sunnyside called John Cotton Business Centre but I am unsure if it dates to 1918. I've had a look but can't tell.

:

kcghost · Sep 14, 2015

Some really good research here, but no answer to the original question of who made this pipe.

disinformatique · Sep 14, 2015

I dig the pipe, please restore it, the grain and stain look fabulous !!

dmcmtk · Sep 15, 2015

And a little bit more from Edinburgh and Leith, Post Office Annual Directory (1932-33) under Tobacco Manufacturers.
http://www.mocavo.co.uk/Edinburgh-and-Leith-Post-Office-Annual-Directory-1932-33/675458/1260
Also, quite a few more Tobacconists in those days...

misterlowercase · Sep 15, 2015

Anytime I see the names Thomson and Porteous I am all shivers a'timber.
Also,

looking at the tobacconists I saw a great moniker,

I'd like to change my name to Magnus Angus.

lochinvar · Sep 15, 2015

I've never been able to figure out my Cotton pipes. My Rattray I'm pretty sure is a Barling (I think there was a close relationship between to two I read somewhere), if not it's features mimic a Barling astonishingly close. I have one each, a Frederick St. address and a Princes St address, and neither one reminds me of another maker, in size/shape or font in stamping. My assumption was that it was a smaller maker, there were things that led me away from Barling, Comoy, GBD, Charatan, and the like. I thought maybe Sasieni, something in the stem/shank proportions. Maybe some old records will be found moldering away in Edinburgh that will tell us one day.

dmcmtk · Sep 15, 2015

Another update, from Edinburgh and Leith, Post Office Annual Directory (1940-41) addresses shown at 100 Princes Street and factory at 172 Easter Road.
http://www.mocavo.co.uk/Edinburgh-and-Leith-Post-Office-Annual-Directory-1940-41/164657/221#134

dmcmtk · Sep 15, 2015

From the same as above in the Classifieds section 1940-41,
http://www.mocavo.co.uk/Edinburgh-and-Leith-Post-Office-Annual-Directory-1940-41/164657/134#1149

jguss · Sep 15, 2015

I was swapping pm's with Dave, but think my pc hiccupped a bit.
The Frederick Street address first appears in the 1884-85 Edinburgh Post Office Directory, and last appears in the 1935 Edinburgh phone book. So JC was operating there for about fifty years. Interesting, but of finte help in dating your pipe. If you assume that the lack of silver is indicative, then the pipe probably dates from between the early twenties and mid thirties.

JOHN COTTON 47 7 Frederick St Edinburgh Scotland Saddle Billiard

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