It's discrimination, but it's okay because they use tobacco

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joe912

Starting to Get Obsessed
Oct 27, 2011
121
2
Wasilla, Alaska
Alaska State Law has no rules about discriminating against tobacco users, so companies like Alaska Airlines (they've been doing it for years) and now Providence Hospital won't hire you if you are a tobacco user. Nicotine more specifically. Being drug tested for a legal substance is stupid.
Here's the article:Providence will stop hiring nicotine users

 

spartan

Lifer
Aug 14, 2011
2,963
7
They can all go suck on a doorknob as far as I'm concerned.
I'd add em to the boycott thread but hell... It's not like we can boycott a flippin' medical center in ALASKA! lol...

 

chestercopperpot

Might Stick Around
Aug 29, 2011
52
0
Drug testing for nicotine???? They'd do the same to fat people or people with illnesses but it's not politically correct at this time. But it's OK to s**t all over smokers. There needs to be some kind of federal law against something like this, discriminating against people based on a legal activity. If not, there should be.

 

schmitzbitz

Lifer
Jan 13, 2011
1,165
2
Port Coquitlam, B.C.
Made even more awesome as nicotine is now being produced by big pharma in pill-form to help combat certain mental diseases such as dementia and alzeimers; given a choice between working my hospital job or losing my marbles, I think I know my choice...

 

joe912

Starting to Get Obsessed
Oct 27, 2011
121
2
Wasilla, Alaska
Oh, I've been boycotting Providence for years, they suck. Biggest Hospital in state = worst service/care. When I had a medivac 9 years ago I refused to be taken to to Providence, the flight nurse agreed and they rerouted me to Alaska Regional Hospital. But that's not the point of this thread.
Some states have laws in place that do deem this behavior by an employer as discriminatory. Good on them. Alaska has no such law, as most Alaskans don't much care for big gov't (or its laws)in the first place. Anchorage is the exception because the "big city" has been invaded by tree hugging bunny, er, lovers who know, KNOW that the gov't is better at running your life than you are.
The privacy laws in AK are very strong. For instance, you can legally possess a quarter-pound of pot and up to 25 plants as long as there is no intent to distribute.
Now if we can just apply the privacy laws to tobacco here.

 

spartan

Lifer
Aug 14, 2011
2,963
7
So you can OWN pot and pot plants... but if you smoke it and fail the drug test... THEN we have a problem... lol

 

doctorthoss

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 6, 2011
618
9
I'm a pipe smoker, and I hate these rules, but ...

What do we expect? Our country has been waging a war on drugs for decades -- the only reason we've been exempted was because a huge majority of Americans used this particular drug (same for alcohol) for so long. Now that we're in the minority, we're going to be treated like other drug users -- the laws have NEVER been based on what harm a given drug does, but rather on those drugs that are politically unpopular at the time. And nicotine IS a drug, no matter how much we might like to pretend otherwise. Basically, why should we get special treatment?
The courts have already heard many of these cases, and have said that a private company has every right to not hire someone for having nicotine in their system (they can also refuse to hire someone with alcohol in their system, or illegal drugs). It's not considered discrimination because smoking is a choice we make ... unlike our race or gender, and it's not like anyone has argued that tobacco use is a religion. Is this the right thing for companies to do? Of course not, but the Republicans have made it clear that no one should be able to tell a business owner who they should hire -- when personal freedom affects their bottom line, freedom loses. And many Democrats want to protect us by legislating us out of existence. If freedom runs counter to their ideals of public health or safety, freedom loses. We're screwed from both directions here.
I think it's all garbage, but I also think all laws that target vice are stupid. We, the People, have decided that the government has every right in the world to tell us what we can do with our own lives -- we decided that a long time ago, and that decision is reflected in many policies (the government can tell us if we can smoke pot, use harder drugs like cocaine or alcohol, who we can or can't marry in many states, if we should wear seat belts or not -- heck, a woman can sleep around with everyone in town legally but the moment she decides she ought to be paid for it she's a criminal). In the face of that, what right do we have to ask for special treatment?
Personally, I'm focused on building a cellar that will last me. It's only a matter of time before our hobby is killed by taxes or legislation. And then I guess we just need to focus on being self-employed .... not that we'll be able to get health insurance or anything, as no private insurer will take us for much longer and the American people will never allow the government to let everyone obtain health insurance.
I don't want to be too much of a killjoy here, but we're getting exactly what we've asked for.

 

aussielass

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 18, 2011
513
1
As a wise man said to me last week, he was an eBay tobacco seller .... "The Government only do that because the people allow them to."
Now, never a truer word was spoken - the trick is to figure out how the hell the people can stop the madness of taking our right of choice away.
Unfortunately, because the issue is tobacco related, it will never be stopped because unlike, for example, the gay movement being granted more and more legal rights worldwide on a daily basis (as they bloody well should be) because their numbers increase steadily since it's now pretty safe to "come out", the number of smokers is diminishing at a rapid rate, therefore much easier to stamp out totally and that's exactly where they're headed in the civilised western world! Smoker's unite and claim a large patch of dirt in a third world country, claim it as our own and make our own damn country! There's a few of us who could stamp out a few suicide bombing undesirables whilst we're there!

 

yoru

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 5, 2011
585
1
"and it's not like anyone has argued that tobacco use is a religion"
Actually I do. It is a part of accepted meditative ritual for certain sects of Buddhism -- as a firm supporter of the ideology of non-religious Buddhism (which is not legally distinct from religious Buddhism) -- and therefore a "layperson" in their lingo, I claim tobacco use as a religious rite (note the spelling). It forced one of my apartments to let me smoke in the building and once got me out of a MIP ticket (possibly just because the cop thought I was creative or amusing).
Of course now I live with individuals who refuse to let me smoke indoors. . .damn.

 

aussielass

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 18, 2011
513
1
What the heck is an MIP ticket? You mean you can be charged for smoking in a car over there! We can, but only if the child is under 16 or 17yo, I can't remember which.

 

joe912

Starting to Get Obsessed
Oct 27, 2011
121
2
Wasilla, Alaska
To accept the status quo and say essentially "it is what it is" goes against my nature. I refuse to be a sheep and accept the degradation of personal freedoms. Yes, smoking is a choice, a legal one, as is drinking alcohol. In my years on this earth, I have observed on many occasions that an individual driving while under the influence of nicotine is exponentially less hazardous than an individual driving under the influence of alcohol.
I would have thought that this country learned it's lesson from the debacle of the 18th amendment, but apparently I'm incorrect. It won't work to legislate tobacco out of existence, just as the 18th amendment didn't work, and the colossal failure of the "war on drugs".
We are on a very slippery slope with the continual loss personal freedoms in this country, and it is appalling how citizens just lay down and accept it. I would rather go down fighting for what I believe is right than accept the judgement of misguided groups and grievously flawed legislation.

 

lordnoble

Lifer
Jul 13, 2010
2,677
14
@doctorthoss- That was a succinct and well argued post. :clap: Brilliant, in fact. Thanks for joining our forums. I look forward to your input and wisdom.
-Jason

 

markw4mms

Lifer
Jun 16, 2011
2,176
2
Bremen,GA
We are on a very slippery slope with the continual loss personal freedoms in this country, and it is appalling how citizens just lay down and accept it. I would rather go down fighting for what I believe is right than accept the judgement of misguided groups and grievously flawed legislation.
.

Thank you, thank you! I couldn't have said it better myself! Too bad we don't have more people who feel this way, and I know our founding fathers would be turning over in their graves seeing what is happening to our country. Ben Franklin figured it out (see my signature quote), it's not rocket science.

 

rigmedic1

Lifer
May 29, 2011
3,896
75
Those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Smokers are hardly a minority, the sheer numbers of cigarette stores and gas stations with 100 brands of cigarettes in stock attest to that. These Occupy "insert name here" protesters may Not be the first to get vocal about it, but they are being heard. As to what result, that remains to be seen. But one thing is for sure, when one right is lost, another will be sure to follow. We have a right to indulge in what is a legal practice. We need to stand up for our rights, whether it is the politically correct thing or not.

 

baronsamedi

Lifer
May 4, 2011
5,688
5
Dallas
When I was a kid my high school had a smoking section and anyone over 16 could smoke on a long break between 2nd and 3rd hour or during lunch. My Junior high School (7th through 9th) actually rioted over smoking privelages. The Screwel was on an Army post and the MPs showed up with full riot gear. I made it over the wall and off campus before they could lock the building down.

 
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