It is illegal to sell McClelland tobaccos (& a few others) in Germany, why?

menuhin · Feb 28, 2015

It is impossible to find McClelland tobaccos in Germany, and it is the same case for a few other brands such as Cornell & Diehl. I asked a local tobacconist and he stated that it is probably due to the case that these tobaccos have one herbal additive that is prohibited in the tobacco retailed in Germany, which makes the smoke smoother. Unfortunately I forgot what the name of this ingredient is.
Has any forum member heard of this?

Or can someone enlighten me about the underlying reasons for not being able to sell these tobaccos in Germany?
p.s. many tobacco manufacturers move their factories to Germany in recent years partly because German law is relatively tolerant towards the smoking and tobacco.

cosmicfolklore · Feb 28, 2015

I can't remember which tobacco it was, but I had sent an email to Fox asking if they could sell me a blend. My reply back was that because it hadn't been cleared for export, that they couldn't sell it to me. This was a year or so ago, but maybe these brands just aren't cleared for import or export or something like that. Because, I just don't know of any additive that could be in these blends. Many of the McClelland Virginias aren't cased at all, some use the Blakeney's method of curing, which caramelizes the sugars without any additives at all and some are just age cured. As for C&D, I don't have a clue.

But, if anyone knows more than just my speculations, I'd love to hear it.
It could just be a shop owner talking out his rump. I've met a few tobacconists here that just make crap up when they are asked questions that they don't know the answers to. One even told me that he doesn't carry tins, because they don't sell before the expiration date, ha ha!

pylorns · Feb 28, 2015

Polypropylene Glycol maybe? It's approved by FDA, food safe and used to keep tobacco from drying out too quickly. Only thing I could think of. Are you in germany? Do you know if you can trade with people? Ie, is it cool for McClellands to be mailed to you?

carytobacco · Feb 28, 2015

Find a retailer in another country that will mail you hobby supplies.

pipefish · Feb 28, 2015

Hey Menuhin, I'm in Switzerland and I definitely feel your pain in regards to McClelland tobacco. It's not available here in Basel, however, I can get Pease and C&D blends from my B&M--at a whopping CHF22.00 for a 57 gram tin!!
There is a pipe shop in Zurich that does sell McClelland. It's called Tabak-Laedeli and they appear to have an online shipping service. Here is their website (I find it be a very slow site--have patience after you click!):
http://www.wagner-tabak-laedeli.com/english/nav1_eng/
Again, the prices are pretty high--generally CHF 18-20 for 50g and CHF 34-37 for 100g. How far away are you from Der Schweiz? Perhaps you could take a train ride to Zurich and spend a day touring the city and loading up on McClelleand at the shop. You'd get a mini-vacation away from Germany and save on shipping charges.

woodsroad · Feb 28, 2015

I suggest that you direct your question to McClelland. They are good people.

menuhin · Feb 28, 2015

I met a pipe tobacconist buddy, and he said that all those selectively banned American tobaccos have coumarin as an natural additive:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coumarin#Toxicity_and_use_in_foods.2C_beverages.2C_cosmetics_and_tobacco

Coumarin can make the smoke much smoother, but it's use is banned in all tobaccos sold in Germany.
But II still feel quite perplexed because I can find Samuel Gawith 1792 Flake here, which is flavored by tonka bean extract.

cosmicfolklore · Feb 28, 2015

Mmmmmm... Coumarin, that must be what makes it taste so good. : puffy

:

northernneil · Feb 28, 2015

Interesting article. But that doesn't mean McClelland and C&D use Coumarin in their blends. But you have peeked my curiosity.

cosmicfolklore · Feb 28, 2015

+1, especially since most of McClelland's blends aren't aromatic.

menuhin · Feb 28, 2015

+2.

That's why I'm puzzled - unless this tonka bean extract coumarin can be present in a less detectable form.
@pylorns & cary & pipefish

I contacted 4noggins, so I'm properly get my TAD related itch alleviated by them.

[*EDIT*- Please do not discuss ways to avoid customs/taxes on the forums. Thanks! -Jason]
@woodsroad

I'm very interested in what they'll say, but I'm not a tobacco dealer myself

menuhin · Feb 28, 2015

...tobacco industry assertions that revealing tobacco additives was a violation of trade secrets...

Some more to read:

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/12/4/401.full

woodsroad · Mar 1, 2015

Menuhin, please express you concerns to the good folks at McClelland and give them the opportunity to respond.

menuhin · Mar 1, 2015

I myself do not believe a whole lot of additives are added to these McClelland Virginia flakes. I just sent a message to McClelland asking for the reason(s) of their absence in the tobacco market of Germany. And in the meantime I am debating with myself how many tins of yummy flakes I should order from 4noogins.

mikestanley · Mar 1, 2015

According to my local (Ohio) shop, McClelland isn't easy to order from. They require some sort of form or license that makes extra stems to placing an order. Maybe this is even more problematic for overseas shops?
Mike S.

menuhin · Mar 1, 2015

I'm curious too.

When I had McClelland, that was all mail orders within the US. (or perhaps on the shelf somewhere overseas? I actually cannot remember it well.)

kcghost · Mar 1, 2015

According to my local (Ohio) shop, McClelland isn't easy to order from. They require some sort of form or license that makes extra stems to placing an order. Maybe this is even more problematic for overseas shops?
Mike S.

I think you are assuming your retailer is correct in his comments. The only difficulty McClelland would present to a dealer is that they will not sell direct to customers. Considering how much tobacco McC is selling they can't be too difficult to order from.

mikestanley · Mar 1, 2015

"I think you are assuming your retailer is correct in his comments. The only difficulty McClelland would present to a dealer is that they will not sell direct to customers. Considering how much tobacco McC is selling they can't be too difficult to order from."
I am indeed. I've known this fellow for almost 20 years. Mind you, this retailer stocks a complete line of McClelland products so, it certainly isn't a case of a retailer not stocking something and telling some tall tale. I am confident in my information, I just don't remember what exactly the extra step is, It doesn't matter one bit as I can stop in a pick up a tin of any McClelland made blend I care to with no extra step required of me.
Mike S.

mikestanley · Mar 1, 2015

I was going to add to my above post that for all I know it could be something Ohio makes necessary...but I don't know. I didn't get that impression though.
Mike S.

mso489 · Mar 1, 2015

Germany has regulation of food supplements that exceeds any other in the world. Therefore, customers can count on the product being what it claims, with no unnamed additives, and in the dose stated on the label. No other nation has quite that level of supervision of products. Likewise with tobacco, Germany likely has precise specifications that must be met, what is acceptable and what is not. It's a mixed bag. You can look at it as intrusive government bulllying, or a true effort to keep blenders honest. Apparently I trust McClellands a lot further than the German government does. They go by lab work, I go by taste, burning characteristics, and smell.

It is illegal to sell McClelland tobaccos (& a few others) in Germany, why?

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