Is Tobacco What It Used To Be?

cosmicfolklore · Dec 11, 2014

I just finished reading The Cultivator's Handbook, as I've been pouring over all of the books on growing tobacco and Native American tobacco culture lately. I think that it's interesting that there are many accounts of tobacco having been psychoactive, almost like pot, back before it was cultivated by Europeans. It makes sense, as it was moved by the West Indies Trading Company, which also moved crops like opium, coffee, and tea. the first reports of tobacco was that a few puffs and the smoker was transported to a spirit world, some fainted, with reports of shakes, fevers, and hallucinations. This book explains that by cultivating the plant, producers created a highly addictive drug that would bring in more profits by reducing the effects and increasing the amount of tobacco consumed. We have quite a few people on here that have studied tobacco history, and I was wondering what others may have found. Please include the book that had your findings, as I'd love to continue reading more on this.
I have ordered some of the seeds that have been mentioned in this book, out of curiosity and (of course) purely for research purposes, ha ha. But, it is interesting that what we may be smoking could be lightyears from what was being cultivated by the Native Americans. What's your opinions and/or findings?

leacha · Dec 11, 2014

My first thought on this.... Does the author site his sources?

mso489 · Dec 11, 2014

Just guessing, but I suspect that Native American tobaccos were less cured and less processed, and

likely gave a much stronger dose of nicotine, and other herbs may have been part of their "blends."

Maybe brown ropes and Tambolaka would give a little of that effect, but proceed with caution. These

symptoms don't sound altogether pleasing. I think today's non-aromatic blends probably represent a

high water mark in exquisite taste and complexity, if not outright kick. And for shear variety of flavor,

today's aromatics present a vast range of flavorings, although they aren't my major interest.

cosmicfolklore · Dec 11, 2014

Yes, and the author is the founder of the Santa Fe Natiral Tobacco Company, (AKA, American Spirit, now run by Mark Ryan, I believe). The sources are so out of print that I'd have to get the library involved, which isn't beyond me, ha ha.

cosmicfolklore · Dec 11, 2014

No, he lost what the Native American used to case the tobaccos with. Very good information, way beyond just forum speculations.

cosmicfolklore · Dec 11, 2014

The reason I started reading it was to find ways to process my own crops. This book had great info for that also. I highly recommend it.

leacha · Dec 11, 2014

Sounds good. For an intresting read Tobacco: A Cultural History of How an Exotic Plant Seduced Civilization by Ian Gately

sallow · Dec 11, 2014

Just guessing, but I suspect that Native American tobaccos were less cured and less processed, and

likely gave a much stronger dose of nicotine

That also, plus the peyote.

pitchfork · Dec 11, 2014

I've wondered about the strength of native tobaccos, too. Serious question, did native Americans typically inhale? I'm not sure I'd survive a full bowl of brown rope if I inhaled. If what they smoked was on par with our modern ropes (which are themselves based in a centuries-long tradition of tobacco processing), then I suppose it could induce some strange side affects on par with what you read about.

cosmicfolklore · Dec 11, 2014

Guessing is ok. But, it's amazing to see how smoking tobacco here compares to how it's discussed on the growers forums. Leacha, I've read it, good stuff, but missing what I was initially looking for concerning curing. The stuff about NA tobacco culture was just serendipitous. Most tobacco books assumes that history started with Europeans. But, negates to include how NA's taught is how to case and prepare tobaccos. For example, Perique was being processed for hundreds of years before Columbus.
Just fuel for thought. In still learning when it comes to growing and processing, but so far it's fascinating stuff.

cosmicfolklore · Dec 11, 2014

Pitchfork, tobacco was consumed in many different ways. The first account by Columbus was that natives in a canoe were burning it a lantern like device and natives were sucking the smoke into the nose with a straw. Then they row for a while, stop, and suck some more apprx. an hour or so later, but consistently, over and over. The book is fascinating with how they prepared it and consumed it in many different ways.

Many books that I've read says that it was only used in ceremony, but this author has many different other sources confirming ways it was used recreationally on a regular basis.
I always giggle a little when people assume it's ok to just burn raw leaf. The book also goes into how that can kill you with some strains. And having tried it as a kid growing up around tobacco barns, if it doesn't kill you, you'll wish you were dead, ha ha. Even touching the plant while it's growing can make your head swim, and an uncle of mine lost a hand to cancer for handling plants in the field as they are topped. And, the flowers are often cooked into a tincture to case the tobacco also.

cosmicfolklore · Dec 11, 2014

In Europe as the tobacco was first introduced, men would smoke a couple of puffs and dump their bowls as it was strong enough that just a few puffs were enough. Then the street urchins of Europe would gather and sell the dottle. The East Indies Trading Co then tried to find ways to make it more profitable, as selling small amounts and then having the dottle resold wasn't bringing in the cash. This is where the author makes the claim with a few references that plantations were started to domesticate the leaf for European consumption.

escioe · Dec 11, 2014

the first reports of tobacco was that a few puffs and the smoker was transported to a spirit world

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AduBW3iCNY

some fainted, with reports of shakes, fevers, and hallucinations

Must have been smoking Jackknife Plug before breakfast. I've had 100% of those symptoms in that case. The hallucinations are really more in terms of thoughts: 'nah, dude, go ahead, have another puff. Don't waste the stuff. The bowl's not that much bigger, and you're not that nauseated anyway.'

cosmicfolklore · Dec 11, 2014

Ha ha, I'm anxious to try some of that N Rustica stuff. But, you guys may not see my posts if it send me to the spirit world, haha!

cosmicfolklore · Dec 11, 2014

So many typos- He "lists" what the NA's used as casing, and the "East" Indies Trading Co. Sorry, dang iPhone.

cosmicfolklore · Dec 11, 2014

I did find a correlation, ae1pt, (at least the author has the same last name) and it strikes me as interesting, being that he founded the company that we know now as American Spirit and all of the good things that they did for the tobacco farmers and industry, including Mr. Ryan, D&R, and the perique industry. You may have just hit on something very interesting, but I don't want to speculate.
Anyways, this homegrown tobacco culture has my interest. And, I am anxious to get next year's seeds in the ground. I still have quite a while till I can strike fire to this year's harvest, but I am not expecting much, since these were from commercial seeds that I picked up from the local Co-op. There are thousands of strains of non-commercial tobaccos that we would never be able to taste in a commercial blend, but perfectly legal and available for the home hobbyist, as long as one doesn't sell it or give any away. : puffy

:

melvinsunsmokedcastello · Dec 11, 2014

I have rustica growing right now..supposedly super potent. We'll see. I smoke G&H ropes & Cotton Boll all day long..Won't be ready for a long time though.
How many plants did you put in cosmic? I will put in around 50 in a few months. Have 10 growing right now trying to sneak a winter crop in. So far so good, got a cold blast this week but no frost!

cosmicfolklore · Dec 11, 2014

Very cool! I'll look forward to hearing from you on that crop. I had put in about 40 plants, probably too closely planted, but I had to leave town for a family funeral, and when we got back, the drought had gotten them. The year before this, I had problems transplanting the microscopic seedlings. This next season, I will install a drip irrigation system on the whole garden. I already have a 120 gallon rain water reservoir and most of the parts, so I just need the pipes to make it happen. And, I will work in two more beds to give the plants more room and extend it out to 50 plants also.
I initially just want to raise Virginias, but after reading this, I am rethinking varieties.

I am curious as to how you cure yours. I had planned to build a rotating barrel to flue cure them, but I ended up with only a few ounces. So, I didn't build it. I'm hoping for better luck this next season.
I'm also wondering of my crop of greens will be affected by having tobacco planted too close. I keep hearing from farmers back home that it can poison food crops near by.
Very cool Melvin. It's nice to have someone to talk manure and gardening with. Now, that I feel a tad more confident, I'll post pictures as this next season comes up.
I take it that you are growing inside? Even in Alabama, it's too cold to grow outside right now, except for cabbage, kale, carrots and onions.

melvinsunsmokedcastello · Dec 12, 2014

No, growing outside. I live in S. Florida. I'll post up some pics tomorrow..

jitterbugdude · Dec 12, 2014

An easy way to get a "flue" cure is to sun cure your tobacco. It comes out pretty close to real flue curing. For pipe tobaccos you might want to try Little Dutch (a tobacco used in the 1800's) as well as some Turkish varieties such as Samsun-Maden, Bursa, Bucak etc.. far far superior to anything you can buy.
As far as Rusticas, Sacred Cornplanter is pretty tasty but will knock you down if you smoke too much of it.
As far as flue curing, it is easy to do but there is a gigantic learning curve that goes with it. You should probably leave the flue curing alone for a few years and concentrate on air curing and/or sun curing. Don't forget to build yourself a kiln if you want to speed up the aging process and smoke your stuff in a month instead of a year or two.
Tons of good info on FairTradeTobacco Forum. Lots of seed available too.

Is Tobacco What It Used To Be?

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