Pipes Magazine » Pipe Talk

Search Forums  
   
Tags:  No tags yet. 

Is this a Fake Dunhill on eBay?

(16 posts)
  • Started 4 years ago by samcoffeeman
  • Latest reply from menuhin
  1. samcoffeeman

    samcoffeeman

    Senior Member
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 451

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I do believe this is an obvious fake, meaning a poor attempt. It is not one of the legendary fake Dunhills which were quite well done fakes. Hopefully this is an aberration and we won't see a deluge of new poorly faked Dunhills coming.

    Listing for Fake Dunhill

    The stem does not look like a factory Dunhill stem, from looking at the button from this angle and also the white dot is too close to the shank.

    But the real obvious part is this is a smooth pipe, stamped as a Shell with patent number in very odd format.

    What do you think?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  2. misterlowercase

    misterlowercase

    Member
    Joined: May 2012
    Posts: 4,542

    offline

    Login to Send PM


    LOL

    The rare and elusive smooth Shell,
    you better buy it Sam,
    you'll never see another!!!

    Posted 4 years ago #
  3. fishnbanjo

    fishnbanjo

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 3,080

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I reported it to eBay Fraud Central no need someone being burned.
    banjo

    Posted 4 years ago #
  4. xrundog

    xrundog

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 772

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    The stamp looks right for a '37 shell. I posit that someone smoothed a well worn shell and affixed a replacement stem to fit the new shank contour. The unsmoked part would be a lie.

    The stem/bit is a big part of the Dunhill experience for me. I wouldn't want it even for a cheap smoker.

    Life is good. But it's better with a pipe.
    Posted 4 years ago #
  5. georged

    georged

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 2,626

    online

    Login to Send PM

    So many interesting possibilities...

    Deliberately smoothed-out legit Shell stummel? --- Then how was the crispy-sharp, dead-even nomenclature preserved?

    Fake stamp? --- Those things aren't cheap, and are fiendishly difficult to use well. Unlikely a faker with such resources and skill would use an obviously fake stem or not know what a Shell was. Also, why choose a rare-ish anomalous example of nomenclature to copy?

    Etcetera.

    I'd actually pay five bucks to know the story. This is high-class entertainment for Dunhill collectors. lol

    Know one will ever know for sure, though.

    Dogs live such short lives... and spend most it waiting for us to come home
    Posted 4 years ago #
  6. misterlowercase

    misterlowercase

    Member
    Joined: May 2012
    Posts: 4,542

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    The stamp should read:

    Undunhill

    Posted 4 years ago #
  7. beefeater33

    beefeater33

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 2,584

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Here's a fake with the exact same stamping, albeit poorly done:
    Dunhill Fake
    Its at the bottom of the page...............

    "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."
    Willy Wonka
    Posted 4 years ago #
  8. xrundog

    xrundog

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 772

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Good find beefeater. I guess I thought someone would put more effort into a fake.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  9. dmcmtk

    dmcmtk

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2013
    Posts: 2,937

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Interesting that the two pipes have the same stampings....so the pipe in the OP is a rare fake!

    Dave
    Duke Street Irregular
    Posted 4 years ago #
  10. misterlowercase

    misterlowercase

    Member
    Joined: May 2012
    Posts: 4,542

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Loring speaks of this as well..

    Lastly in terms of nomenclature, although I have not seen the following stamp used on any 1980s fakes thus far, there appears be a Dunhill stamping tool dating to 1937 that reads: DUNHILL SHELL MADE IN ENGLAND (over) PAT. No 41757417 in the hands of some illiterate who has used it to stamp at least 3 different ‘group 4sh’ fake smooth finished pipes. These three fakes belong in the same uninteresting category as the Irish antique shop 20 Euro fake I wrote about above, however, the possibility exists that this stamp was initially stolen from the Dunhill factory in the early 1980’s and perhaps used on some of the 1980s fakes.

    http://loringpage.com/pipearticles/80s%20Fakes.htm

    Posted 4 years ago #
  11. samcoffeeman

    samcoffeeman

    Senior Member
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 451

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Good catch! I had an inkling it might have been one of the Loring fakes, but thought those were better fakes than this one.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  12. georged

    georged

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Mar 2013
    Posts: 2,626

    online

    Login to Send PM

    misterlowercase cracked the case, I think.

    A stolen legit stamp certainly makes more sense than having one made.

    That it fell into the hands of someone who was clueless about how to use it is the PipeWorld's good fortune, and about the only question remaining. "Gee, Imma gonna git me a baskit pipe for $3, whack it with this thang and make five hunnerd bucks! Yee Haw!"

    I could have just ended up in a junk box at a garage sale, and five minutes' "research" on the Internet did the rest, I suppose.

    Good stuff. Keep the entertainment coming, World's Greedy Idjits. It's priceless.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  13. misterlowercase

    misterlowercase

    Member
    Joined: May 2012
    Posts: 4,542

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    John Loring cracked the case,
    I am but a mere mortal.

    That it fell into the hands of someone who was clueless about how to use it is the PipeWorld's good fortune, and about the only question remaining. "Gee, Imma gonna git me a baskit pipe for $3, whack it with this thang and make five hunnerd bucks! Yee Haw!"


    LOL

    Hopefully it wasn't a family affair...

    A man was jailed for four years and eight months yesterday after earning £850,000 from making fake art treasures with the help of his parents in their 80s in their terraced house in Bolton.

    Shaun Greenhalgh's biggest triumph was the sale for £440,000 of a statue which he claimed was 3,300 years old and represented the Princess Amarna, daughter of Pharaoh Akhenaten and Queen Nefertiti.

    It had, in fact, been "knocked up" in a garden shed. But he and his parents fooled the museum and art gallery of the town in Greater Manchester, which bought the piece and put it on display.

    Greenhalgh, 47, his father, George, 84, and mother, Olive, 83, admitted conspiring to defraud art institutions between June 1989 and March 2006. She was given a suspended jail term of 12 months, while her husband will be sentenced later.

    Their cottage industry did not confine itself to Egyptology, but produced artifacts ranging from a Roman plate to a goose supposedly sculpted by Barbara Hepworth. According to the Metropolitan police arts and antiques unit, the trio may have worked less for profit than to shame the art world.

    "We believe Shaun is a failed creator who had no success selling his work because, as he saw it, he had not been to art school and did not know the right people," said Detective Sergeant Vernon Rapley. "He realised he could make more money conning the art market. He wanted to show them up, and to a degree he succeeded."

    "The antiquities and art were produced by Shaun Greenhalgh and sold by George Greenhalgh with, from time to time, the assistance of his mother Olive," said Peter Cadwallader, prosecuting, at Bolton crown court.

    "It appears that, although gifted as an artist, Shaun Greenhalgh was not a salesman. His father, in particular, fulfilled that role admirably, and fooled experts from all the great auction houses and other experts from Leeds to Vienna and from London to New York."

    "It will be never known the full extent of the enterprise or the monies that were made," said Mr Cadwallader. "As to bank accounts, the records only go back for six years, which is only a little over a third of the whole period."

    For Shaun Greenhalgh, Andrew Nuttall said: "Mr Greenhalgh discovered many years ago he has no style of his own ... He had one outlook and that was his garden shed. The Amarna Princess was knocked up in three weeks in this garden shed.

    The Greenhalghs also pleaded guilty to laundering the money made from the fakes. Rapley said: "Despite their talent and ability to reproduce these artworks and the false provenances that accompanied them, they were still living a relatively frugal life on the proceeds of their crime.

    "Whilst numerous forged items have been recovered and every effort has been made to trace all the Greenhalgh forgeries, there can be little doubt that there are a number of forgeries still circulating within the art market."

    Posted 4 years ago #
  14. maxx

    maxx

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 718

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Are Dunhills the only pipes susceptible to counterfeit? Reading this thread I was reminded of the Orson Welles film "F for Fake."

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KWZUG0-nn_Q

    (If its inappropriate to post this, let me know.)

    "Curiosity is one of the most permanent and certain characteristics of a vigorous intellect."
    ~ Samuel Johnson ~
    Posted 4 years ago #
  15. ssjones

    ssjones

    Mod
    Joined: May 2011
    Posts: 14,571

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Wow, good eye Sam. In fact, I think I'll start thinking of you AS "GoodEyeSam"!
    The stem even has what looks like the filter tube intruding into the bowl.

    Someone on another forum had a thread about some fake Castellos' on Ebay of recent.

    Speaking of art forgeries, this was an interesting read.
    http://www.amazon.com/The-Goldfinch-Novel-Pulitzer-Fiction/dp/0316055433

    Al

    Posted 4 years ago #
  16. menuhin

    menuhin

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 656

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I think these people with the fake stamp do not want to spend the money to invest the money on some Sandblasting equipment and at the same time incompetent in doing any blast-like rustication.

    Posted 4 years ago #

Reply

You must log in to post.

 

 

    Back To Top  | Back to Forum Home Page

   Members Online Now
   mikey517, burleyboy, georged, cfreud, haparnold, pepesdad1, lawdawg, the85boro