Pipes Magazine » Pipe Tobacco Discussion

Search Forums  
   
Tags:  No tags yet. 

Internet Sales Tax Decision is...

(139 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by prairiedruid
  • Latest reply from perdurabo
  1. prairiedruid

    prairiedruid

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 1,685

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    The Supreme Court has decided that states can require internet retailers to collect sales tax. 5-4 decision, I haven't had a chance to read it yet.

    NOTE FROM KEVIN: Guys - Please keep the politics out of this so we don't have to close the thread.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. prairiedruid

    prairiedruid

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 1,685

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Supreme Court Decision

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. folanator

    folanator

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Nov 2015
    Posts: 641

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Damn that makes my life harder. The level of MORON that resides at the State level is dumbfounding.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

    The Bard Of Barlings
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 9,616

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Not a surprise. Monetization of the Net is accellerating.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. mikethompson

    mikethompson

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2016
    Posts: 3,753

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Was there no sales tax applied to online purchases in the US before?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. anantaandroscoggin

    anantaandroscoggin

    Member
    Joined: Sep 2017
    Posts: 119

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    there was not, unless the seller has a physical presence within the same state as the buyer.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

    The Bard Of Barlings
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 9,616

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Yes there was, but no legal teeth for states to demand that users pay it. It's called a usage tax. B&M's have been screaming, justly, that online stores have an unfair advantage because they weren't being forced to collect tax on sales. With this decision, that changes.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. prairiedruid

    prairiedruid

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 1,685

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Was there no sales tax applied to online purchases in the US before?

    If the retailer had a physical presence in the state (B&M, warehouse, ect) the retailer had to collect the state's sales tax; otherwise it was the duty of the buyer to self report and pay the tax to the state. Vast majority of people don't do that.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. User has not uploaded an avatar

    ekert

    Member
    Joined: Mar 2018
    Posts: 168

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Any idea when this will become effective?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. woodsroad

    woodsroad

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Oct 2013
    Posts: 8,498

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Sales tax in the US is currently on a state-by-state basis only. There is no Federal (national) sales tax or VAT.

    Sales tax therefor is only collected by the state in which the purchaser resides. What is changing here is that state governments may now collect sales tax on purchases that their subjects residents make out of state. There have been attempts made prior to this (most states require their subjects residents to pay a so-called "Use Tax" and self-report out-of-state purchases), but the advent of the interwebs has given the overlords states the ability to collect real-time data on those out-of-state sales. All that was missing was for the Supremes to approve the extortion scheme process, since it involves interstate commerce.

    I think that I got that all right.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. seacaptain

    seacaptain

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 1,866

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Another 5-4 decision. Kennedy can't retire soon enough.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

    The Bard Of Barlings
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 9,616

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I think that I got that all right.

    Pretty much, though B&M small business owners would see it a bit differently.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

    The Bard Of Barlings
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 9,616

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Another 5-4 decision. Kennedy can't retire soon enough.

    You didn't notice who the rest of the supporters were?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. seacaptain

    seacaptain

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 1,866

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    You didn't notice who the rest of the supporters were?

    No, I read three different articles and none mentioned anyone but Kennedy who wrote the opinion.

    If the conservative block is responsible for this, I'll be totally shocked.

    Do you know how the rest voted?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. prairiedruid

    prairiedruid

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 1,685

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Yep this was a different voting than usual. Ginsburg sided with Kennedy, Alito, Thomas, and Gorsuch for the 5 vote majority. Roberts, Breyer, Sotomayor, and Kagan were the minority.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. seacaptain

    seacaptain

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 1,866

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Yep this was a different voting than usual. Ginsburg sided with Kennedy, Alito, Thomas, and Gorsuch for the 5 vote majority. Roberts, Breyer, Sotomayor, and Kagan were the minority.

    Wow, I AM totally shocked.

    Ok, so Ginsburg AND Kennedy can't retire soon enough.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

    The Bard Of Barlings
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 9,616

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Nothing surprising here except how much the decision split along idiot ideological grounds. I've always expected this, which is why I've always paid my user taxes. Hopefully there won't be any attempt to collect retroactively, but if there is, it won't affect me.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. prairiedruid

    prairiedruid

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 1,685

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Ok, so Ginsburg AND Kennedy can't retire soon enough. [:-)]

    So you give a pass to Alito, Thomas, and Gorsuch????

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. carolinachurchwarden

    carolinachurchwarden

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 1,673

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Best be buyin' up all the goodies you can, while you can and they're not yet imposing the taxes. Once that hits, it won't likely be any cheaper than going to your B&M. I love going to the local B&M, but the A) the prices are at least double, and I can't afford that all the time, and B) They don't typically have a lot of the things I want to try. The online market is was and easier, better way to shop in a lot of ways.

    "If you can't send money, send tobacco." - George Washington

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. seacaptain

    seacaptain

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 1,866

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    So you give a pass to Alito, Thomas, and Gorsuch????

    It was a joke, calm down.

    I AM surprised that most of the conservatives decided States can regulate businesses in other States, and just as surprised most of the liberals didn't jump on board with it, especially since the money collected represents an expansion of government in all those States.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. ignaciojn

    ignaciojn

    Member
    Joined: Aug 2016
    Posts: 204

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    How is this "pipe tobacco discussion"?
    Unless you count the sour and bitter taste.

    Ignacio
    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. seacaptain

    seacaptain

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 1,866

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Hopefully there won't be any attempt to collect retroactively, but if there is, it won't affect me.

    No one is going to care what Joe Schmoe bought on ebay in 2007 and it would take a whole new court case for States to force retailers in other States to turn over customer data, i.e. past sales. Even if they did, I'm not sure States have a legal standing to collect taxes retroactively from this Supreme Court decision.

    I think the States are going to be happy with the windfall they're about to get and leave it at that. I'm sure we'll be seeing plenty of new government contracts going to politician's friends and family in the next few years to keep the politicians fat and happy for awhile.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. seacaptain

    seacaptain

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 1,866

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    How is this "pipe tobacco discussion"? [:crazy:]

    Do a search, there are plenty of threads discussing online tobacco companies collecting sales tax for out of state purchases.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. prairiedruid

    prairiedruid

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 1,685

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    From the states' view this is collecting taxes that they were entitled to; people weren't reporting to the state what they owed. It's a numbers game, it's easier for states to police thousands of businesses than millions of individuals to collect the tax money they are due.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

    The Bard Of Barlings
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 9,616

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I AM surprised that most of the conservatives decided States can regulate businesses in other States, and just as surprised most of the liberals didn't jump on board with it, especially since the money collected represents an expansion of government in all those States.

    No surprise there either. Pretty much what I expected.

    No one is going to care what Joe Schmoe bought on ebay in 2007 and it would take a whole new court case for States to force retailers in other States to turn over customer data, i.e. past sales. Even if they did, I'm not sure States have a legal standing to collect taxes retroactively from this Supreme Court decision.

    I think the States are going to be happy with the windfall they're about to get and leave it at that. I'm sure we'll be seeing plenty of new government contracts going to politician's friends and family in the next few years to keep the politicians fat and happy for awhile.

    You're more than likely correct. But I've seen a whole lot of things that people said would never happen, happen.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. greeneyes

    greeneyes

    Junior Member
    Joined: Jun 2018
    Posts: 76

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Some were already onboard before enforcement. There's that 85% difference between the "online price" and the price on your credit card that catches some people off guard. Had it happen twice these past few months.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. ignaciojn

    ignaciojn

    Member
    Joined: Aug 2016
    Posts: 204

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    there are plenty of threads discussing online tobacco companies collecting sales tax for out of state purchases

    I understand. But the description of this sub-forum says "all kinds of talk and questions about pipe tobacco without a formal review".

    This should be under General Discussion, or maybe Tobacco Legislation.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. seacaptain

    seacaptain

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 1,866

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I understand. But the description of this sub-forum says "all kinds of talk and questions about pipe tobacco without a formal review".

    This should be under General Discussion, or maybe Tobacco Legislation.

    I never pay much attention to what sub-forum threads are in, but that being the case, I agree with you.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. seacaptain

    seacaptain

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 1,866

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    From the states' view this is collecting taxes that they were entitled to; people weren't reporting to the state what they owed.

    And there is the crux of the issue as far as I'm concerned. If state residents aren't following state law, then the beef the state has is against the individual not following the law, NOT some out of state company.

    But, it isn't worth their time to go after $5 each from a million people, so like class action lawyers, they shake down the deep pockets to get "their" money.

    Lucky for them, the states found a complicit group of judges to shake down companies that have NOTHING to do with individuals in another state failing to comply with their state's laws.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. User has not uploaded an avatar

    aldecaker

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Feb 2015
    Posts: 4,474

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Jesse, you had the correct phrase the first time with "idiotological grounds".

    A man who serves his country is a patriot. A man who serves his government is an employee. The two are not always the same thing.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  31. mso489

    mso489

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 25,923

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Nothing good about this decision for me, but it might send customers back to my local independent pipe shop since the $20 tin (or more, for inflation) will be the same online as in person.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  32. olkofri

    Olkofri

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Sep 2017
    Posts: 2,101

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    What about international sales? Will this affect non-US residents buying from US online tobacconists?

    Not the sweet, new grass with flowers is this harvesting of mine;
    Not the upland clover bloom...
    Posted 1 year ago #
  33. woodsroad

    woodsroad

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Oct 2013
    Posts: 8,498

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    No one is going to care what Joe Schmoe bought on ebay in 2007

    I beg to differ.

    Tax collection at the nuts and bolts level isn't ideological, it's bureaucratic. When a state tax official can present a plan to add an additional $XX,000,000 to the revenue stream, there aren't many legislators who will oppose it. And I doubt that a move to collect any tax retroactively would require action on the part of the legislature, anyways. The only mitigating factor is the cost of collecting that tax revenue. It probably needs to be a positive return, but whether that's a positive return on a case-by-case basis or overall, well that depends on the derp level.

    As for going after out of state retailers for past years sales data: My guess is that the states will attempt it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  34. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

    The Bard Of Barlings
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 9,616

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    What about international sales? Will this affect non-US residents buying from US online tobacconists?

    No. Nothing to do with sales to purchases of this type.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  35. woodsroad

    woodsroad

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Oct 2013
    Posts: 8,498

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    What about international sales? Will this affect non-US residents buying from US online tobacconists?

    No.

    The US can force non-residents to pay sales tax when purchases are made from outside the country.

    Yet.

    That will be in the next US-EU trade agreement!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  36. jaytex969

    jaytex969

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2017
    Posts: 3,524

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    This is NOT going to put B&M on equal footing with online retailers.

    The $16 tin at the B&M that goes for $11 online, with (TX) tax of $0.91 is still going to be cheaper than local purchase for many.

    Maybe the states with oppressive/punitive tobacco taxes might be more even but P&C, etc. still likely will undercut the local presence on the bottom line, just by economy of scale.

    So, support the B&M occasionally despite the cost and take advantage of the online opportunities as well. Soon you will be hunted down by laser guided morality missiles like the filthy, godless vermin you are...

    Enjoy your day!

    Gunner, Black Frigate. Say "Hello" to my little friend!
    Posted 1 year ago #
  37. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

    The Bard Of Barlings
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 9,616

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    As for going after out of state retailers for past years sales data: My guess is that the states will attempt it.

    I've always assume that anything one does online can be tracked and accessed, certainly at the surface. Privacy doesn't exist online. So that possibility is real enough. And if there's a revenue gain, there's motive. We'll see.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  38. seacaptain

    seacaptain

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 1,866

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    The $16 tin at the B&M that goes for $11 online, with (TX) tax of $0.91 is still going to be cheaper than local purchase for many.

    Bingo. The states couldn't care less about whether or not this is "fair" to their B&M retailers, they just want the sales tax money. They don't care where it comes from.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  39. folanator

    folanator

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Nov 2015
    Posts: 641

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    This looks more like it's for the bigger players. You must have something like >100 transactions in the State to get caught in their web. The SC was clear that this is not a free for all for States to come in and collect on everything sold on the internet.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  40. User has not uploaded an avatar

    oldgeezersmoker

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Oct 2016
    Posts: 1,080

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Until Congress acts to provide some semblance of uniform rules, the costs of compliance will be substantial. Hard to see how the smaller etailers can cope with that. I do not expect that, say a year from now, we have as many choices of where to shop for tobacco and pipes on line. Nor. will we have as many site sponsors.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  41. seacaptain

    seacaptain

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 1,866

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I've always assume that anything one does online can be tracked and accessed, certainly at the surface. Privacy doesn't exist online. So that possibility is real enough. And if there's a revenue gain, there's motive. We'll see.

    True. I still doubt it will ever be worth their while to go after individuals for a 10 year old ebay purchase though.

    Even if they did, can you image the uproar from a couple of million constituents getting a retroactive tax bill in the mail? Especially considering that many of those people will be in the lower "poor" classes of people.

    They'll be talk of exemptions and "fairness" because "rich" people buy high priced items locally and "poor" people buy cheap goods over the internet. It won't be fair to stick "poor" people with a retroactive tax bill.

    I think any politician would correctly see retroactive enforcement as a political disaster.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  42. craiginthecorn

    craiginthecorn

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 1,077

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Honestly, I have to agree with the Supreme Court on this. Of course, it's wishful thinking that some other tax will be lowered due to this windfall, especially here in The Land of Lincoln Crooks. It will help level the playing field for B&M retailers, whom we need for a thriving local economy.

    Tobacco is a special case, though. The state and local excise taxes for tobacco often dwarf the sales tax. Although I haven't read the decision, my guess is that it is narrowly focused upon state sales taxes. In Illinois, the sales tax is 6.75% statewide, but higher in many counties where local sales taxes are added. The statewide tobacco tax is 36%. I wonder when that shoe will drop?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  43. hoosierpipeguy

    hoosierpipeguy

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jan 2018
    Posts: 1,839

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Unless you live in FL or another State with a oppressive sales tax, this isn't a huge deal. Sales Tax in Indiana is 7%. If I purchase $2400 per year ($200 monthly) worth of online tobacco, it will cost me an additional $168. Depending on what you smoke, that's 2 to 4 lbs of tobacco per month (approximately). I don't think that's going to make or break most people. Further, I'm guessing the majority of people don't average spending $200 per month on tobacco. Yes, there are certainly those that do but they're in the minority in the big picture.

    This also will not come close to "closing the gap" between local B&M's and the large internet sellers. I suppose the local B&M's forgot about that shipping cost thing the consumer pays unless they purchase volume. The reality is, in general, the local B&M doesn't have the purchasing volume to compete with the large online retailers. If I understood correctly, at least the smaller B&M's have to purchase GLP, H&H and a few other brands from Pipes & Cigars at the same price everyday Customers pay. Obviously, paying sales tax isn't going to overcome the markup difference there. Local B&M's didn't close primarily due to the competition from internet retailers. They closed because there are less and less pipe and cigars smokers in a world being dominated by anti smoking Nazis. They closed because they failed and/or were unable to create a friend smoking lounge environment in their shop to attract smokers to come in, spend time and spend money even if the prices were slightly higher.

    In some places, you can order booze online at cheaper prices. I don't see that causing local bars and restaurants to go out of business.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  44. mrenglish

    mrenglish

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2010
    Posts: 2,303

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Ohio has a 7.5% sales tax so 75 cents per $10 dollar tin of tobacco is not going to break the bank here, considering the prices SPC (for instance) charges. Heck, at one shop 100g McClelland tins were going for $25 as their regular price. While I try to support the B&M, it just is not economical if I want to stock up nor is there the selection that can be found online.

    The merchants are going to have a crazy time with this due to the huge variances in what States and municipalities charge.

    Michael
    Posted 1 year ago #
  45. seacaptain

    seacaptain

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 1,866

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    The merchants are going to have a crazy time with this due to the huge variances in what States and municipalities charge.

    And there's another good point about the "fairness" of the ruling allowing states to regulate businesses in other states.

    The Amazons of the world will have no trouble buying/updating the software needed to comply with the literally thousands of different combinations of state/county/city taxes in the country. Mom and Pop businesses, not so much.

    The unintended consequences of this ruling are going to be to create burdens on small businesses and no doubt drive some of them out of business, which helps Amazon.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  46. perdurabo

    perdurabo

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 2,776

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Trump administration backed this in court via the South Dakota law. Most states will have to go through legislative action to tax. Stop it there, if you can out vote the morons in your state.

    It's not my position nor want to help another man. It's his responsibility to help himself, as where he can learn to dig down deep enough to save himself. -I. Kidd
    Posted 1 year ago #
  47. perdurabo

    perdurabo

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 2,776

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Seacap' who cares about small business, They're only the largest creators of jobs out there.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  48. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 13,328

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    So, I buy an estate pipe from a small company in, say, Maine. They are supposed to report to the State of CA who will then dun me for sales tax at CA rates? Or are they supposed to charge me for it and send the proceeds to my state? Or simply charge their state's tax and remit locally. Or some other convoluted way. All of them suck big time.

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  49. seacaptain

    seacaptain

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 1,866

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Or are they supposed to charge me for it and send the proceeds to my state?

    This is the intent of the ruling.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  50. brian64

    brian64

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jan 2011
    Posts: 5,196

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    The unintended consequences of this ruling are going to be to create burdens on small businesses and no doubt drive some of them out of business, which helps Amazon.

    I see no reason to assume it's unintended.

    “Bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out.” – George Carlin
    Posted 1 year ago #
  51. admin

    Kevin Godbee

    Smoking a Pipe Right Now
    Joined: Nov 2008
    Posts: 8,029

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Guys - Please keep the politics out of this so we don't have to close the thread.

    Check Out Our - Pipes Podcast
    Posted 1 year ago #
  52. carolinachurchwarden

    carolinachurchwarden

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 1,673

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Wait, so I got confused. When you buy something online, what sales tax would be enforced? The sales tax rate in the state that the product I purchase "resides" or the state I live in? In other words, I live in North Carolina. If I buy a tin of tobacco or a pipe from a company that is located in California, do I pay the sales tax for CA or NC? I mean it makes sense that I would pay it in CA, since if I were there in person, I would anyways, but does that mean you might be paying more tax in some states than others? Not that it's that much for my one purchase, but they add up.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  53. jaytex969

    jaytex969

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2017
    Posts: 3,524

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I suspect, with technology, compliance should be routine.

    A clearinghouse, funded by the recipients of the tax funds, sets up a database of tax rates by state. Each recipient is responsible to submit the correct info by the arbitrary date of compliance.

    Each vendor uses the database to apply the rate to a sale and the tax funds are channeled to the recipients' troughs. Oink!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  54. folanator

    folanator

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Nov 2015
    Posts: 641

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    FUBAR trust me...

    Think about this Cali (probably) will want to split this up by county. That means that I (the small biz guy who employees 25 people) have to:

    Account for all sales in Cali
    Accrue all st revenues
    SPLIT it among all the counties
    Remit all taxes to the appropriate county

    And I have to do this in 50 States.

    If you read the ruling, it's not going to be clear who this apples to and who it will not. I hate government. They do nothing but make my life a pain in the arse. Less is better of all of those Thieves.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  55. prairiedruid

    prairiedruid

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 1,685

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Wait, so I got confused. When you buy something online, what sales tax would be enforced? The sales tax rate in the state that the product I purchase "resides" or the state I live in? In other words, I live in North Carolina.

    You'll be charged the North Carolina tax rate.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  56. jaytex969

    jaytex969

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2017
    Posts: 3,524

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I just saw a preview of the new 1040 Super EZ Form.

    Line 1 says, "How much did you make?"

    Line 2 says, "Send it to us."

    I feel your pain, folanator, literally. But I do believe I benefit from some governmental activities. I sure enjoy clean, safe drinking water and relatively smooth, safe roads to rocket down at 80mph on 2 wheels.

    In all total online commerce, the lost revenues are just too tempting for taxing authorities to ignore. Pressure has been building for years and I'm surprised it has taken this long. Not agreeing, just observing.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  57. User has not uploaded an avatar

    aldecaker

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Feb 2015
    Posts: 4,474

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    "I feel your pain, folanator, literally. But I do believe I benefit from some governmental activities. I sure enjoy clean, safe drinking water and relatively smooth, safe roads to rocket down at 80mph on 2 wheels."

    It's no fun trying to protect your homestead and womenfolk from gangs of marauding bandits with no law around, either.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  58. perdurabo

    perdurabo

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 2,776

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Yea this one will be hard to keep from the political rampage section. But dang it's hard to believe the voting on this one. The Nine don't hang out and talk these decisions over, they vote and that's it. I'm wondering if this was done so more law suits are filed and a better decision can be hammered out in the long run. im inferring this based on Kenndy's opinion.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  59. User has not uploaded an avatar

    aldecaker

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Feb 2015
    Posts: 4,474

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Yeah, you'd think they would hang out and chat a lot more than they actually do.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  60. perdurabo

    perdurabo

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 2,776

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Any alteration to those rules with the potential to disrupt the develop- ment of such a critical segment of the economy should be undertaken by Congress.

    ^^^^This is From Roberts, he's addressing small business here. And he is right as well as Kennedy's opinion, Congress has to take up this matter and it's in the end up to the states to decide what they are going to do. This decision is for South Dakota. Not every state in the union. Can't wait for Mark Levin to dress this down.

    I would ask my state as well as South Dakota to address their spending before they disrupt an engine for economical growth for the small business man.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  61. weezell

    weezell

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 9,290

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    like the filthy, godless vermin you are...
    Ahem...we are. Thank you...

    "the weez"...
    Posted 1 year ago #
  62. peckinpahhombre

    peckinpahhombre

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 7,478

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I just scanned the decision. The dissenting decision is interesting - they all agree that the physical presence doctrine was wrong at law, but are reluctant to overturn a prior decision of SCOTUS even one that they acknowledge was wrongly decided. The dissenters feel that Congress should do that legislatively.

    As I read the decision, it is certainly open to states to start requiring (and enforcing) out of state vendors to collect tobacco taxes as long as the vendor has a reasonable threshhold of sales in that state.

    The only thing surprising about the Wayfair decision is that it took this long.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  63. User has not uploaded an avatar

    oldgeezersmoker

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Oct 2016
    Posts: 1,080

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Legislation is already on the books in many (most?) States that would allow state revenue departments to start collecting these taxes immediately. The burden of compliance is solely on the out of state seller.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  64. User has not uploaded an avatar

    artvandelay007

    Member
    Joined: Apr 2018
    Posts: 116

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Unfortunately people will now be able to buy less pipe tobacco as well as other things. The real problem for tobacco is when businesses are forced to collect tobacco excise taxes. I haven’t read the decision but I think every state will have different thresholds for compliance for a given business. Sad.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  65. seacaptain

    seacaptain

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 1,866

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I sure enjoy clean, safe drinking water and relatively smooth, safe roads to rocket down at 80mph on 2 wheels.

    You've obviously never been to Michigan.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  66. User has not uploaded an avatar

    aldecaker

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Feb 2015
    Posts: 4,474

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Oh, that's funny as hell, right there!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  67. woodsroad

    woodsroad

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Oct 2013
    Posts: 8,498

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    The end justifies the means, doesn't it?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  68. bnichols23

    Bill Nichols

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Mar 2018
    Posts: 2,593

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    'capn, you should try SC. We have some of the lowest gas prices in the country,sales tax 6%, plus income tax, & also some of the worst roads in the country. If your state's got high taxes & bad roads, the state legislature's where the real problem is.

    [BTW, absolutely none of what I'm saying on should be taken as politically oriented at all. It's strictly economic based on respective tax rates. It's just the reality of what each of us personally lives with. :)]

    One thing hoosierpipeguy said caught my attention -- about FL having an oppressive sales tax. It's actually only 6% (although local taxes may take that a little higher, but usually not all that much). However AL's effective rate is higher (4% state, with addition of local rates in most areas that take it to an average of about 8-9), *&* they have an income tax as well, which FL does not. So taxes in FL are really actually not all that high when you look at it.

    This is getting too wonky, which I really honestly didn't intend. How the SD decision will eventually shake out for tobacco sellers I wish I knew, especially with so many online vendors being uneasy about it before. I really do wish I hadn't hocked that crystal ball now!

    Head Black Frigate keelhauler, boss powder monkey, & troublemaker 1st class.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  69. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

    The Bard Of Barlings
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 9,616

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Well, it's going to be a mess for the smaller online or mail order retailer to handle, though the larger retailers apparently have the software to do that. Sounds like an opportunity for an enterprising software maker to supply an updatable application for computing the additional costs based on zip code if that doesn't already exist. That or it's another task for an e-commerce clearing house to take on.

    Reminds me of the bullshit I had to go through computing sales tax on freelance commissioned work. I finally got around that by billing for labor only, which avoided sales tax, and by contractually making the client responsible for any and all sales taxes on the finished piece, which would include compositing, adding of type, etc after I delivered the artwork.

    Could be worse. About 30 - 35 years ago, Congress passed a major tax rewrite that required artists like me to calculate how much paint I squeezed out of each tube for each painting, how much wear on how many brushes for each painting, etc in order to deduct the expenses of operating a studio. There were a couple of artists who protested by burning all of their art supplies and their artwork. I got lucky that year because I went in-house full time for all of that year and had no significant independent contractor work.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  70. bnichols23

    Bill Nichols

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Mar 2018
    Posts: 2,593

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Agree with you, Jesse. A real market niche here for some enterprising coder!

    Posted 1 year ago #

Reply »

You must log in to post.

 

banner

 

    Back To Top  | Back to Forum Home Page

   Members Online Now
   mortonbriar