How (much) damages would decrease the value of an estate pipe?

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menuhin

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 21, 2014
642
3
I'm not too deep into the estate pipe market scene, and would like to get some ideas from experienced estate pipes owners and dealers, especially about how various degrees of damage would affect the value of a pipe.
$1000 - Let's say, a pipe (say a ~1970s Dunhill non-special edition) unsmoked new in box.

$800 (mint) to $500 (good used with minor handling marks) - smoking it.

$500 (50% mark) to $250 - minor issues, such as stem oxidation, tooth-marks, rim darkening, stem being too loose or too tight.

$250 (25% mark) to $100 - major issues, such as cracked shank, cracked bowl, or non-original stem.

$100 (10% mark) and below - major damage, such as cracks questionably repairable, or bowl chamber structure compromised during previous usage, e.g. burn-out, or missing its stem or a major component.
Above is just a rough idea (or misunderstanding) I have about how the price may go down for an estate pipe.:puffpipe:
My question for experience forum members is mainly about how damages, i.e. cracks and chips in the shank, the bowl and the stem, affect the value of a pipe. And usually by how much?

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,621
44,833
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Bear in mind that not all estates are created equal. There are collectible pipes and there are used pipes. I'll assume that you are referring to collectibiles, those pipes that have some sort of "desirable" status such as Dunhill, Ivarsson, Barling, etc. as opposed to less august makes.
I would say that your ranges are reasonably accurate, though paying 80% of new for a used pipe, no matter how clean it looks, would be a challenge for me. There are people who will do that, but not me. There would have to be something really special about that pipe for me to loose the purse strings.
At the 50% mark I would expect the pipe to be extremely free of minor issues. It might not be mint, but it should be close. Toothmarks, stem oxidation, bad stem fit definitely drive the price down as they're indicators that the pipe did not receive good care from previous owners and could have more serious issues. When the stem is loose we're at the 30-35% mark, tops.
25% mark. I don't consider a replacement stem that serious an issue, as long as it's a high quality hand made one that is correct in design. Besides, there's really no way to know for sure that ANY stem on a pipe of venerable age is original. It's taken on faith. There are a LOT of pipes that I see listed on eBay with unmentioned replacement stems, redone stem logos, and I've even seen "unsmoked" estates with clearly beat up, mouth grundgy stems stuck on them. Pipes with nice looking stems go for better prices. Most people haven't a clue when it comes to stems being original or replacement. Replacement stem as an issue belongs in the 50% and under category.
Cracked bowl, cracked shank are deal breakers for me. I'm a collector, not a resurrectionist. From a collectible standpoint there may be some value if the pipe has other attributes like an interesting provenance. Cracked bowl - 0% value. Cracked shank that has been repaired - 15-25% The collectible value of these is negligible.
10% - These issues? O%. Kindling. Unless it's Einstein's pipe, or Mozart's. Then the value is in the provenance, not the pipe.

 

buroak

Lifer
Jul 29, 2014
1,867
14
I would scarcely consider a pipe in your 25% range. That said, I have bought bowls without stems and on one occasion I bought a rare pipe with bowl damage and no stem.
I think your scale would apply to a very well-defined and active segment of the estate market (e.g., the Dunhill market you use as your hypothetical case). In less well-defined portions of the estate market pricing seems very subject to buyer whims and other idiosyncratic factors.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,317
11,068
Maryland
postimg.cc
I'm with Jesse and buroak, a crack on a pipe, anywhere is a deal breaker at almost any price

I'm picky about replacement stems and typically pass on them, at almost any cost (or at least those readily identifiable as replacements).

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,433
Some hobbiest archivist could do an interesting study of this, if they could get into a sales stream of pipes and get actual prices paid. I bet it is wildly all over the place, from estate pipes of considerable value being sold off-market at antique shops and fleas that sell for very little, to archeological pipes from Native American digs and European excavations that are not at all smokable that have historical value and would be priced up there. So many variables. It's a market without a single, focused exchange. What I see on smokingpipes.com, which are mostly intended to be enjoyed and smoked by pipe smokers is one edge of the market, but only one. It gives the most seemingly rational and coherent view. Ebay is just crazy and goes all over, but again, it is only one little world where many things can happen.

 

menuhin

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 21, 2014
642
3
Thanks for the input from all of you, especially sablebrush52 on his detailed elaboration.
Some interesting aspects of estate pipe market are pointed out:

- potential value in the provenance, not the pipe. (sablebrush52)

- how well-defined and active a segment of the estate market is. (buroak) e.g. I use Dunhill for the more seemingly realistic values in my example and its well-known. I am sure there are many well known pipes in the past that are not so popular today, for instance, yesterday I read about WDC Milano that created pipes for the president.

- what are some of those 'deal-breakers'.

- stability of a certain niche of estate market versus 'noise' that happens in eBay or some fleas. (mso489)
I personally do not want to restore if a great deal of work needs to be done, but it still depends.

 

saltedplug

Lifer
Aug 20, 2013
5,194
5,097
Deal breakers are issues that irreparable, or reparable at too high a cost. Shank cracks at the mortise can be repaired by rings, but not usually in the bowl unless you were thinking of a metal cap, if indeed that would work.
I'm all about using an article as long as it is useful and have smoked pipes successfully with cracks in both of the above areas. I've only started doing small pipe repairs myself recently. If you do the work is the time well-spent?
How much money are you investing in a pipe that can be had from somewhere else at a smaller investment of time.

 
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