How Can I Make Flakes Burn More Evenly?

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May 9, 2018
1,687
86
Raleigh, NC
I've been trying my hand at some ODF flake again, folding and stuffing it in a bowl that fits it nicely.
I've noticed that after I light it, the whole top looks nice and even and I smoke on it for a while. After some time, it goes out and I try relighting and it goes out again fairly quickly. I scrape off the ash just to give it some air, then notice that it burned more like a bullseye and conical, starting wider at the top, then narrowing as it burns down. Then I dump the middle ash, scrape the sides and relight and it works great again.
Is there something I should do differently, or does it just burn the way it burns and you just have to dump ash, scrape and relight? Just curious.

 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,565
27,066
Carmel Valley, CA
Flakes dry slowly, from the edges. So, what feels dry is possibly still moist in the middle. This might account for what you experience, and cough, cough, further drying may be the solution.
Let us know!

 
Jan 8, 2013
7,493
733
Make certain it's not packed too tight, or too loose. When you pack the flakes into the bowl a little bit of looseness is recommended, as once you set flame to the tobacco, it's going to expand, thus filling the bowl more. I fold the flake but instead of putting the folded up part (notice how it breaks apart and looks uneven at the bend) into the bowl, I place the more uniform end into the bowl. I take my tamper and I lightly scrape, without any downward pressure, the broken up pieces of tobacco sticking up in the bowl. Any fine broken pieces, dust from the tin/jar or where I was preparing tobacco gets lightly sprinkled on top of that. It makes great kindling and helps that first light to be nice and even. I think the charring light and secondary lights being uniform and even are key to how the flake is going to burn throughout. Lightly tamp often. With no pressure to keep the embers down on the tobacco. Only add pressure when you must.

 

weezell

Lifer
Oct 12, 2011
13,653
49,163
Is there something I should do differently, or does it just burn the way it burns and you just have to dump ash, scrape and relight? Just curious.
That's mostly how I do it. I'm always open for suggestions...

 

donjgiles

Lifer
Apr 14, 2018
1,571
2,522
I really like cube cutting flakes. I take a flake and fold it with the grain and cut them up with scissors. I like to load them, tap the sides and gravity fill to taste.

 
May 9, 2018
1,687
86
Raleigh, NC
Well, they might could use a little more drying time, but if they dry too much more than they are right now, it'll crumble apart, seen one do it already, which kind of defeats the purpose of the fold and stuff method.
Anthony, I tried your method a few times and it's been a good way to get it going. Been flat out perfect, until I discover it burns the way it does. Not that I mind doing what I've been doing, but I just wondered if by the way it burned, I needed to adjust something.
Maybe it could be too tight. Don't think I've ever made it too loose, but I have noticed that if and when I tamp, it's just stiff. As in, it won't tamp at all.

 
May 9, 2018
1,687
86
Raleigh, NC
I've done that before as well, but maybe my fold and stuff was a little off then. I gave the method a break and opted for just rubbing it out, but I really liked the idea of fold and stuff enough to want to give it a try again. Maybe I'll try to fold and stuff again and just leave it in the pipe for a day or so and see what happens. In either event, I'm enjoying smoking them more now since I at lease have gotten something right... I think, because I'm not smoking it too fast and I'm getting very lovely aroma and taste from it.

 

npod

Lifer
Jun 11, 2017
2,942
1,024
I do it like you Carolina. I have similar results. I now kinda know when I need to dump some ash and get some oxygen to the wad. Like Anthony said, leaving a little wiggle room between the tobacco and sides helps. I smoke flakes almost exclusively now and it took me a long while to learn to think ahead about my weekly rotation and dry out flakes ahead of time. I us3d to just look in the cellar and say, “ooh that blend looks good tonight.” Then rush to smoke the flakes with poor results. Now I do the quick grab and smoke only with ribbon cuts style tobaccos.

 
Yeh, when I fold and stuff, this is what I get too. All tobacco burns like a cone down the center of the bowl, but with flakes it's slightly more annoying, as I have to push the sides of the bowl down, or else I end up with craggy canyons along the edges. As a clencher for most of my smokes, I prefer ribbons, as they will burn like that, but eventually they end up burning along the edges also. But, flakes, I have to remove my pipe from, my mouth and fiddle with them, using my tamp. Sometimes, this is ok, but when stopping to fiddle is an issue, such as working at my bench or driving, I just prefer to cube cut or go for a ribbon. Ultimately, after years of doing this, I have found very little significance in pleasure from flakes verses a looser cut. But, YMMV.

 

georgebmcclelland

Starting to Get Obsessed
Nov 27, 2018
270
24
I really like cube cutting flakes. I take a flake and fold it with the grain and cut them up with scissors. I like to load them, tap the sides and gravity fill to taste.
I second this motion, this is by far my favorite way to enjoy a good flake. I feel as though it gives me the most flavor, an even burn with no unexpected re-lights, and leaves no dottle in the bowl. I definitely believe that this is the most efficient way to smoke a flake, in my opinion.
If you definitely want to fold and stuff, the advice from Anthony and jpmcwjr pretty much says it all, especially the bit about the flake drying from the edges. You can also cut the flake lengthwise and have two skinny flakes that will dry at a more even rate.
It also helps to reserve some to rub out and sprinkle over the top to act as kindling.
Seconded. Sometimes if I'm smoking in a large enough bowl to fit two or more stuffed flakes, I sprinkle this kindling in increments throughout the bowl, and have had good results.
just leave it in the pipe for a day or so
This has totally worked for me. It first occurred by mistake when I packed a bowl of Bold Kentucky one morning, but was called in to work and left it at home. I got back late, fell asleep exhausted, and when I woke up the next morning and smoked it, the flake was so well behaved that I've repeated it quite often on purpose.
I definitely recognize the pleasure and merits of folding and stuffing your flake, and do it quite often myself. Like others have said, the dry time will be longer. I had a great smoke once with folded and stuffed flake that was dried out way past what I normally would consider much too dry.
In the end, though, I really like the cube cutting that Don first mentioned. I just take my flake to my bread board and chop it up laterally, across the width of the flake. Then, as Don says, gravity feed it. This approach requires almost no drying time, I've found.
It's obviously a subject which can be approached in so many different ways and, along with the very few additions of my own, I heartily agree with everything that has been posted here so far.

 
May 9, 2018
1,687
86
Raleigh, NC
Yes, I have done a lot of these things and have even tried to cube cut a couple of times, until I had bits flying all over the damn place, trying to scrape them all back up and get them in a nice, neat pile.
Basically, I had some ODF gifted to me, some was from a bulk source, some from a tin source and aged about 2 years or so. I left one bunch in a plastic bag and lost it behind my tub shortly after getting it. Should have jarred it when it arrived, but didn't even occur to me at the time. When I found it, it was so dry that you couldn't fold it and stuff it, because it would just crumble before it could fold. I'd rub that out and smoke it, but didn't really find the flavors that many other experienced.
I jarred the other from a bulk source and it has stayed relatively pliant, but maybe it does need to dry more, I'm just afraid to dry it too much and have it break up on me as I try and fold again. I have actually tried to stuff it in a bowl and let it dry over a day, but I think I packed it too tightly.
This latest attempt, I pulled out one whole flake, folded it in half, folded it in half again and stuffed into my meer. It wasn't too tight, but it was a little tall, so I scrapped off the top with my tamper until it was below the rim and piled those crumbs on my plate and sprinkled some in for kindling. This was when I noticed the conical burn pattern. Maybe it was still too tight. I'm enjoying the process of figuring this out for myself, but I WILL say this: I have had much better smokes from the ODF that wasn't dried to a crisp and it's really making me want to just buy a pound of this stuff.
Thanks for all the tips and insights guys!

 

georgebmcclelland

Starting to Get Obsessed
Nov 27, 2018
270
24
Oh yeah, I bought a pound of Bold Kentucky, and a couple ounces of bulk ODF from Pipesandcigars, and I'm so glad that I did. I love this stuff, and it's great to have a bunch on hand and a bunch in the cellar. As far as the cube cut goes, I've definitely had that happen to me, too. I've found that when I do it with a good, sharp kitchen knife instead of scissors, the cubes don't go flying and stay right in the little pile like they should.
As far as the conical burn goes, when this happens I have tried to push the un-burned sides gently onto the the center with my scraper and then gently tamp. Sometimes it helps, but flakes are usually pretty high maintenance. I'd be very interested to hear any new insight, so when you make any discoveries, let me know!

 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,565
27,066
Carmel Valley, CA
Some feel that the beauty of flakes happens in the making and aging of the flake, and that rubbing out before loading doesn't diminish the smoke at all. YMMV.

 

georgebmcclelland

Starting to Get Obsessed
Nov 27, 2018
270
24
Some feel that the beauty of flakes happens in the making and aging of the flake, and that rubbing out before loading doesn't diminish the smoke at all.
I'm inclined to believe this, and second the motion as well, though without the proper knowledge to give any informed assurance, or press any certainty of fact on the matter. I can say that, in my personal experience, I have not noticed any loss of enjoyment or fullness of flavor from a rubbed out flake. If anything, the flavor has been amplified by the process, along with a much more evenly paced smoke.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,433
Rubbing out or otherwise prepping flake -- as well as coin, plug, and rope -- is a matter of personal taste, but it seems to me the smaller the pieces the more even the burn, though folding and stuffing or minimal rub-out are often preferred. Grating or grinding flake pretty small, in a hand grater or spice grinder, gives one kind of result, and burns nice and evenly, though you don't want to overdo it. And many wouldn't care for this approach at all. I do various ways, depending on the blend and my mood. Hand grating gives small, even pieces that burn evenly without ruining the flake quality. Again, some would like it, others not.

 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,565
27,066
Carmel Valley, CA
I'm inclined to believe this, and second the motion as well, though without the proper knowledge to give any informed assurance, or press any certainty of fact on the matter.
Who in the world needs proper knowledge to express certainty on any matter here? :)
A well crafted post, BTW!

 
May 9, 2018
1,687
86
Raleigh, NC
I could see that a rubbed out flake doesn't change things much, but what about when you have coins and with respect to something you mention that speaks to intent of the blender with regards to the beauty of the blend is in the aging and pressing? Specifically something like LBF? Those coins have a little bit of Cavendish in the middle, right? I've folded and stuffed them before as well, but is the actual intent meant to smoke them folded, whereby as you smoke, you ease into that center? If you rub one of those out, then you could effectively be blending the entire coin together. Now obviously intent from the blender doesn't always mean it has to be followed by the consumer, your tastes are what they are, but I like to try what the actual intent of these things are just to see what it's like.
In the case of my ODF, I've tried rubbing them out to create what I would call, tooth pick diameter strands and then just breaking those up more, but I'm always curious whether I have it rubbed out enough or not. I know that they always still look compact and tight from the compression, but I don't want them to break apart too much I don't think.
When rubbing one out, and then gravity filling your bowl, how far below the rim do you typically stop the rubbed out pieces to allow for proper expansion?
I know the rubbed out pieces already seem to be compact in the bowl, touching the sides and what not, and even when I've tried, tamping really does nothing to them it seems, not like a ribbon or shag cut. I'd think trying to tamp a flake is like trying to compact gravel or rip rap stones. Just no give.
So do you just drop the rubbed out pieces in, keeping the pieces well below the rim, much more so than ribbons, then light and go, with not much tamping at all until the ash raises a good bit in the bowl?

 

panamacharlie

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jun 13, 2016
228
27
One thing that makes a big difference in the burning characteristics of flake is the shape of the pipe bowl. A conical bowl, like my Preben Holmes, burns as you described, a chimney down the middle with the sides untouched. a tall skinny cylindrical bowl works the best for me.

 
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