High Quality Pipes and Fills

seacaptain · May 21, 2015

Ok, so I've read some differing comments about fills and was wondering what the scoop is regarding high quality pipes.
For instance, will Dunhill pipes ever have fills?
Also, someone made a comment about Savinelli Giubileo D'Oro being the only Savinelli line with no fills.
So, what is the tolerance/criteria for fills regarding high end pipes?
I guess my expectation is that it would never be acceptable in a pipe over $200, but I don't really know.

clarkj734 · May 21, 2015

I would tend to agree with you - if I'm paying $200+ for a pipe, I would expect minimal to no fills. That said, I know from experience that you certainly CAN pay that much and get a fill.
For me personally....fills aren't necessarily a deal breaker, and don't necessarily bother me that much DEPENDING on how they are handled. Some makers tend to do a better job with them than others, taking care to match the stain as best as they can. It would seem though that if there are pits in a block, that should end up being a blasted or rusticated pipe.
Personally, I would prefer a small unfilled sand pit to an ugly putty filler.

settersbrace · May 21, 2015

Sorry to burst any bubbles but fills exist in even the highest end artisan pipes. Bo Nordh pipes were commonly filled but no one new till long after his death or at least no one talked about until then. Supposedly you'll not find a fill on a Dunhill, I only have one and can't see any but unless I were to remove the finish I guess I'll take their word. Fills don't freak me out as long as they are well done and inconspicuous but it's surprising how blatantly obvious some are on even the more expensive pipes. If you don't like what you see, don't buy it. If you've bought it and then discover the fill and cannot accept it, don't smoke it and return it.

beefeater33 · May 21, 2015

I own 30 or so Dunhills....I can't find a fill on any of them...........

gloucesterman · May 22, 2015

Fills are a reality. It's not that they exist but more how they are handled. When they are obvious that detracts from the pipe but when they aren't noticeable they don't. I agree, any pipe that commands premium dollars should be free of them but that isn't always the case. If you are concerned with resale it's more of a problem than if you aren't. Personally I don't mind a fill that is hard to detect. A good pipe maker can make them all but invisible and that works for me.

bigpond · May 22, 2015

I'm not sure I would consider a pipe with fills "high quality". Briar is cheap. I have a hard time imagining a decent carver wouldn't be able to extract a solid pipe out of a good section of flawed briar. I certainly would have no qualms returning such a pipe.
I'm naturally attracted to natural or lightly stained pipes. In my experience, these pipes tend to less frequently have fills. My Sav in the spring finish have zero fills, for example.

jmill208 · May 22, 2015

I'm not sure I would consider a pipe with fills "high quality".

Agreed. "High Quality" should mean exactly what it says...

wcannoy · May 22, 2015

In my opinion as a maker, selling a high-end pipe with a fill is disrespectful to the customer, and disrespectful to the trade.
But ultimately, each pipe buyer should decide for themselves if a particular pipe is worth it. Inspect your pipes closely before you light them up for the first time. Most (but not all) filler material will show up under a UV light... you can get a keychain uv light on a popular online auction site for around $5. If you don't like having a fill for the price you paid, send it back! The next guy might be fine with a fill at that price, and that's his prerogative.

pitchfork · May 22, 2015

I don't think you'll find a fill on a recent Dunhill -- their smooth pipes are usually near-perfect, but the grain is nothing to write home about. However, I do recall seeing a Dunhill from the 30s (?) for sale online that had a small fill.
Also, attitudes toward fills have changed over the years. I have an older Andrew Marks pipe that has fills (I'm assuming it wasn't an aftermarket addition). Elliott Nachwalter also used to make pipes with fills, even very expensive ones. Neither maker, as far as I know, does that now.

lordofthepiperings · May 22, 2015

Just my two cents, but I'd expect no fills from an artisan carver regardless of price point. If you're selling pipes as an artisan carver you should have done enough practice pipes to learn how to carve so that there aren't any fills. As for factory pipes I'd say once you hit the $200 mark there shouldn't be any fills. That's the price point it seems most factories start paying a lot more attention to detail.

wcannoy · May 22, 2015

If you're selling pipes as an artisan carver you should have done enough practice pipes to learn how to carve so that there aren't any fills.

You would think so, but there are hoards of new "pipemakers" out there, many of whom have only ever handled one or two pipes themselves before deciding they can make pipes and sell them for hundreds of dollars. Suffices to say, however, it is not fills that worry me about these pipes.

pitchfork · May 22, 2015

I tried finding the listing for that Dunhill with the fill, but can't find it. It was for sale on Marty Pulver's site. I wonder, though, if it wasn't just a soft spot of wood that looked like a fill, because as far as anyone knows, Dunhill never uses putty. I also came across a controversy over a more recent Dunhill that was thought to have a fill, but it didn't. It was just a soft spot of wood. I've seen other pipes, too, where it looked for sure like a fill, but it was just a spongy bit of briar.
Anyhow, just to be clear, Andrew Marks does NOT use putty or any other kind of fill. The one I wrote of above is a very early pipe, probably from the mid-70s.

mso489 · May 22, 2015

I have a slightly different take on fills. On the one hand, a pipe selling new for over about $80 shouldn't have any fills you can see. Briar and other woods used for pipes are natural, so they could have spectacular grain and the need for a few, or one, tiny fill(s). The use of that briar for a high end pipe is understandable, but no one should ever know (be able to see it). But as some of you know from my posts, much of my stable of pipes is mid and low level priced pipes, a number of them bought unfinished. When visible fills exist on these (and some don't show any!) they can lend a look of originality and subtlety to the pipe. Okay, this is in the eye of the beholder, but for me, pipe smoking isn't a vision of perfection, but a quest. Also, I subscribe to the (somewhat Asian) idea that irregularities can be part of a quest for perfection. So for me, it isn't fills bad, no fills good. It's a thought process. Pay a lot, someone should have taken the time to select a briar that could be without fills, or one where the fills will not be visible. That's what you're paying so much for.

pepesdad1 · May 22, 2015

If you can't deal with fills or putty in a pipe, stick to pre-Cadagon Comoys...they were known as the pipe with no fills whatsoever. If it had a three piece C it was fill free and perfect! I have several Comoys of that era and they are wonderful smokers due to the curing of the briar.

peckinpahhombre · May 22, 2015

I hate fills and the problem with them is that you may not be able to see them when the pipe is new, but as the pipe is handled and smoked and colours, the fills won't change colour or patina the same as the briar does and the fill will become noticeable. I had an Upshall once that showed no fills when it was new but you could see the fills after a few months smoking it. Needless to say, I have never bought another Upshall and never will (for this and other reasons).
I would much rather see a small sand pit or imperfection than a fill, though of course the pipe should be priced accordingly.
As an aside, I am sure every pipesmoker has a different view on what constitutes a high grade pipe. The system I use as a heuristic personally is:
Under $300 - low grade

$300-$500 - mid grade

$500-$1000 - high grader

> $1000 - ultra high grade.
My expectations are that all the pipes in the last 3 categories should not have any fills whatsoever.

pitchfork · May 22, 2015

An Upshall with fills? I don't suppose you have any pics on hand if you've sold it on...
Upshall, like Dunhill, are supposed to have zero fills and only the tiniest of sand spots, if any. The slightly blemished/pitted stummels are supposed to end up as Tilshead pipes. I could be wrong, but even those are not supposed to have putty fills.

peckinpahhombre · May 22, 2015

Pitch, I don't have pics. In fairness, it may have been a tilshead - I had thought a tilshead was still an Upshall, just the lower range. The pipe only cost about $200 so may have been a Tilshead at that price point. In any event, the ugly fill showed it self soon after I started smoking it. That wasnt the reason I got rid of it though - what caused that was the fact that the stem would oxidize when I looked at it the wrong way.

buroak · May 22, 2015

If you can't deal with fills or putty in a pipe, stick to pre-Cadagon Comoys...they were known as the pipe with no fills whatsoever. If it had a three piece C it was fill free and perfect! I have several Comoys of that era and they are wonderful smokers due to the curing of the briar.

pepesdad1, Comoy's pipes from the era of the "three piece C" sometimes have fills, too. The presence of fills may not be all that common, but they are sometimes there.

I hate fills and the problem with them is that you may not be able to see them when the pipe is new, but as the pipe is handled and smoked and colours, the fills won't change colour or patina the same as the briar does and the fill will become noticeable.

peckinpahhombre, I generally buy estate pipes from the 1940s/1950s or earlier, and definitely see that fills become more apparent with time. Not only do they not acquire patina like a briar, but they also seem actually get lighter in color, especially if exposed to sunlight. Fills are not necessarily a deal breaker for me, as some of the brands I find most romantic were those deceased "everyman" lines. That said, a fill on a higher grade pipe is often a deal breaker.

As an aside, I am sure every pipesmoker has a different view on what constitutes a high grade pipe. The system I use as a heuristic personally is:
Under $300 - low grade

$300-$500 - mid grade

$500-$1000 - high grader

> $1000 - ultra high grade.

I think peckinpahhombre is right to be up front about his mental (not in the British sense) scheme for pipe grading. My mental grade scale is similar to his, with one caveat: I do not look at my purchase price as the determinant of the grade. Instead, as I am almost exclusively buying estate pipes, I try to find the original MSRP at the time the pipe was produced and adjust for inflation. Even though I have never bought a pipe that would exceed mid grade status, I expect not to find fills in those pipes.

buroak · May 22, 2015

Also a very wise US based carver once told me ... that you never know what lays beneath the surface of a non smooth dark finished pipe.

whitewolf, Welcome to the Pipes Magazine Forums. That carver was not pulling your leg - the largest fills I have ever found were on a sandblasted pipe.

pitchfork · May 22, 2015

In fairness, it may have been a tilshead - I had thought a tilshead was still an Upshall, just the lower range. The pipe only cost about $200 so may have been a Tilshead at that price point. In any event, the ugly fill showed it self soon after I started smoking it. That wasnt the reason I got rid of it though - what caused that was the fact that the stem would oxidize when I looked at it the wrong way.

At that price, it was probably a Tilshead (bought new?).
As for the stem, yep, I HATE my Tilshead stem. I'd sell it, but it just isn't worth my time and money to sell a $50 pipe, so I use it for my occasional aromatic smoke.

High Quality Pipes and Fills

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