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Help identifying / authenticating tiny vintage Dunhill

(27 posts)
  • Started 2 months ago by totalneophyte
  • Latest reply from georged
  1. User has not uploaded an avatar

    totalneophyte

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    I have a tiny vintage Dunhill and in researching I keep coming back to this forum so I'm hoping some experts out there can help me. The tiny bowl is marked Dunhill London 2468 (or possibly 2488) Made in England. There is NOT a digit following England. There is a dot on the stem. Total length is less than 5". The bowl is about 1" tall. I have owned it 20 or 30 years and no doubt I bought it at an estate auction. I have been told that it MUST have that digit following England and that it must be a fake. It's so obviously old and has been smoked, that I find it hard to think someone could go to all the effort to fake it. Opinions? So far I haven't seen how to add photos.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  2. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    Once your photos are on a photo hosting site (such as Imgur.com; Postimage; Dropbox, etc. Photobucket), or on virtually any site, including this site's album such as eBay; Amazon Pinterest; Facebook; an online Pipe retailer; you-name-it, select the full sized image, then Control-click (Mac) or Right-click (Windows) on the image itself, then choose "copy image location" or similar words. Now paste that URL (the full web address, which should end in .jpg or .png) into the IMG box in the reply window of the thread you're posting to.

    The site's album is also a good choice for displaying photos, and the same method works for obtaining the image's URL for copying into the IMG box.

    There are other good illustrations and steps on how to post photos under "Latest Discussions" in different formats:
    LINK to that thread

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 2 months ago #
  3. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    The person who told you that a Dunhill "must" have a digit following MADE IN ENGLAND doesn't know what he's talking about. Henceforth, ignore that person, nay shun him for the ignorant witless cuckold that he be.

    However there's more involved than the lack of a digit in determining the age and/or authenticity of a Dunhill pipe. We need to see pictures of the actual nomenclature. So kindly provide pictures. However, this much I can tell you. If it is stamped "SHELL" and is a smooth pipe it's a fake. There are some fabulous fake Dunhills floating around, including fakes made by Dunhill employees from wood "lifted" from the Dunhill pipeworks.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 2 months ago #
  4. bnichols23

    Bill Nichols

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    shun him for the ignorant witless cuckold that he be.

    Don't mince words, Jesse; what do you really think?

    Bill

    Head Black Frigate keelhauler, boss powder monkey, & troublemaker 1st class.
    Posted 2 months ago #
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    totalneophyte

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    I have finally got my photos figured out. 3 of the 4 digits are pretty clear, but the third one is only clear along it's rounded bottom portion so could be a 3, 5, 6 or 8 and it's either a stray mark or there may be an apostrophe between the third and fourth digit. My husband doesn't think it was ever smoked, he says it looks more like years of dust in there. I never cleaned it in any way.
    Bowl Markings
    Full View
    Bowl
    View Showing Dot Placement
    View Inside Bowl

    Posted 2 months ago #
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    totalneophyte

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    Here are the letters and words on the tiny Dunhill

    Bowl Markings

    Posted 2 months ago #
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    jojoc

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    The small size of the pictures makes it hard to tell much, but to me it looks like the rim has been charred and the chamber either over-reamed or lined with some sort of pipe mud. Maybe it is just the lighting and low resolution. As far as date and authenticity, I have no idea.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  8. ssjones

    ssjones

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    I've never seen such a Dunhill. Heres the same model on Ebay, guessing it might be yours? I used one of the pictures below, that is tiny. The shape number doesn't pop up in any of the usual places. The stem dot does not look authenticate to me. Dunhill makes a "Don" shape with a similar stem fitment, but to my knowledge, never that small.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Small-Smoking-Pipe-DUNHILL-2468-England-Wood-Bowl-Vulcanite-Stem-/372633476015


    Al

    Posted 2 months ago #
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    totalneophyte

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    YES, that's mine! Wow you did a great job with photos! I couldn't get them posted like that! Any chance you would post the one with the numbers that I added to my item on ebay? I added it as a separate post but yours are bigger. Thanks so much!

    Posted 2 months ago #
  10. georged

    georged

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    I'm going to go against the flow, here, and say I'm strongly leaning toward it being legit.

    Dunhill made some truly odd shapes and sizes early on, would make one-off, un-shape-numbered "owner designs" by request, and anyone intent on faking a pipe these days---previously smoked tobacco pipes were considered the equivalent of used underwear until the late 1980's, remember---would use their copying talent (and stamps!) for a shape that was recognizable and unarguably valuable. The button also looks right.

    Dogs live such short lives... and spend most it waiting for us to come home
    Posted 2 months ago #
  11. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    Good heavens! That looks very un-Dunhill to me.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  12. lightmybriar

    lightmybriar

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    I’m with George on this one. Dunhill occasionally did some very strange things, and this one just has that certain typically-untypical look to me...? But I speak with no authority.

    On a pipe adventure
    Steve
    Posted 2 months ago #
  13. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    Now that I can see that it's not a 4 digit code I have less reservations about it. It did occur to me that it could be an OD, but I don't know enough about those to know how they might have been stamped. This "Dunhill" over "London" was used from around 1922 to 1952, so during the patent era. Would an OD have lacked any patent stamps?

    It does seem more logical that a forger isn't going to make something that looks so unorthodox. There's little to no monetary reason for doing so as unusual shapes appeal to a relatively limited market.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  14. ssjones

    ssjones

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    Faking a pipe like that does make little sense. I definitely defer to George! And as mentioned, it is a Don-like shape.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  15. ryeguy

    ryeguy

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    Does it say "made in angland"? I keep looking at the marking and I can't get an e out of that first letter.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  16. mortonbriar

    mortonbriar

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    This gets me thinking about how many people would work in an operation like Dunhill over all those decades, and surely some of them tinkered around with custom pipes for themselves, and adding the stamps and white dot for fun??? Just an idea...

    I don't really care if the cup is half full or half empty, I just want something to sip on.
    Posted 2 months ago #
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    totalneophyte

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    Yes there is "Made in England" stamped in. On a supersized detail of that number it looks more like 24 then an odd symbol then an apostrophe and lastly the 8. I'm going to try again to post an enlargement. SSJONES did a great job posting large photos so he inspired me to keep trying. I thank everyone very much for all the help.
    https://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=836671&ppid=1122&image=1030093120&images=1030093120&formats=0&format=0&lgdin=1/imgClose-up/url

    That appears to work! But you have to click the URL instead of the photo showing on it's own.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  18. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    The image Al posted is on Ebay. Your larger images on auctiva are protected, except in the size above.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  19. ryeguy

    ryeguy

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    I keep looking at it and the first letter of England still looks like an A not an E.

    Is it just me?

    Posted 2 months ago #
  20. dmcmtk

    dmcmtk

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    Dave
    Duke Street Irregular
    Posted 2 months ago #
  21. dmcmtk

    dmcmtk

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    I keep looking at it and the first letter of England still looks like an A not an E.

    It's an E. Look at the horizontal part of the lower strike of the letter.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  22. draco

    draco

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    Could this be an “apprenticeship pipe”, one made by an apprentice to prove his ability???

    Posted 2 months ago #
  23. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    Could this be an “apprenticeship pipe”, one made by an apprentice to prove his ability???

    No, though an interesting thought. Practice pieces would never have had a Dunhill logo stamp applied.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  24. mso489

    mso489

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    Could this go back to the era in the fifties or before when Dunhill was a competitively priced pipe, a little less costly than the Kaywoodie which was a premium pipe in the U.S.? That could explain why it doesn't have that emphasis on traditional shaping and a cultivated finish. I'm not a Dunhill/White Spot guy, so it's pure speculation here.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  25. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    Dave-

    Did you take the auctiva photo and make some adjustments in exposure, etc, and then post it at larger size, or some other method?

    Posted 2 months ago #
  26. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    I'm thinking it's probably a late '20's pipe, when Duhill was making some unusual designs based on customers' requests, the OD's (own design). It reminds me of a tiny, and I do mean tiny, 1920's Comoy that I own.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  27. georged

    georged

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    Jessie's guess is very probably the answer, I think.

    Posted 2 months ago #

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