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Hairline crack in shank

(16 posts)
  • Started 4 years ago by jpmcwjr
  • Latest reply from gloucesterman
  1. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    Dropped a new old pipe, a Comoy "Grand Slam/ Patent" on one side, "Made in England/ US Pat 2001612*", then a 4 by itself on the other.
    Got a small crack right at the tenon, about 3/4" long, just enough to loosen the fit. I think I can fit a bit of glue into the wood by gently prying apart the crack and forcing it in with smearing several times with finger. Obviously risky, but anyone have luck or have any tips?

    * Number hard to read, so digits could be off.

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 4 years ago #
  2. newbroom

    newbroom

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    I have a similar situation. I knocked a pipe off the rack during a nighttime potty run and found the stem a little loose in the a.m....pulled it apart and found a crack..however, it looked like it had been super glued before I got it. (an estate pipe)
    I think I'm going to send mine out for a band of some sort. The pipe is worth it to me to be sure it's stabilized and working up to snuff.
    I think, though that prying ain't such a good idea..maybe warming it...and getting some sort of capillary action on the glue?...maybe.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  3. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    Don't see any evidence of any previous repair, but there is a metal ring on around the opening of the shank, can't tell if it's embedded in the wood to any depth. The shank is square. It's tight enough that the bowl won't drop off due to just gravity, but I am afraid to smoke it now until it's repaired.

    I was planning on using a good water proof wood glue. Is Superglue all right for wood?- Or maybe they now make one for wood.....

    Posted 4 years ago #
  4. newbroom

    newbroom

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    A lot of times a metal ring, aka, a band, is added to repair a cracked mortise. A crack is like a fissure and it will travel with vibration toward parts unknown.
    I am not going to green light any kind of glue, because I don't have that kind of expertise or knowledge.
    Get with Orley, or Danelplainview, because they are much more qualified through experience.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  5. georged

    georged

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    Don't see any evidence of any previous repair, but there is a metal ring on around the opening of the shank, can't tell if it's embedded in the wood to any depth. The shank is square. It's tight enough that the bowl won't drop off due to just gravity, but I am afraid to smoke it now until it's repaired.

    I was planning on using a good water proof wood glue. Is Superglue all right for wood?- Or maybe they now make one for wood...

    No Comoy's that I know of was ever fitted with such a ring (actually a short piece of tubing that you're seeing edge-on). My guess is that it's evidence of a "bandless repair." Sometimes they hold the crack together over its length, and sometimes they don't. The best thing about them is an external band can still be fitted WHEN they don't, which is what should now be done, I think. Glue---of any sort---won't work. Don't go there, you'll just mess the pipe up. The combination of heat and moisture cycling and steady pressure will defeat any glue joint, even if the glue is many times stronger than the wood itself and impervious to a nuclear explosion. The wood underneath the glue just softens and eventually tear away.

    The bad news is that square-shanked, hand-shaped pipes are fiendishly difficult to band well (meaning no gaps anywhere). That's because they are not actually square but a quadrilateral with no equal-length sides, and tweaking ONE side affects the fit of THREE sides to an unequal degree.

    Dogs live such short lives... and spend most it waiting for us to come home
    Posted 4 years ago #
  6. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    OK, not good news, but way better than ruining an expensive pipe!

    [Going slightly OT?] Can anyone easily ID the year of the pipe, or direct me to a site where I can? A bulldog, Comoy "Grand Slam/ Patent" on one side, "Made in England/ US Pat 2001612*", then a 4 by itself on the other. I did some googling, and now suspect it had inserts for some patented filtering system, and the metal ring may have been part of it.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  7. cortezattic

    Cortez

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    I have successfully used Krazy Glue™ on a horizontal hairline shank crack; and I did it by spreading the crack slightly and allowing the glue to wick in. I had clamps at the ready, and I gave the glue plenty of time to cure. Most of those CA glues are so thin they soak into the wood; and as georged noted, the glue is actually stronger than the wood it bonds. In my case nothing untoward has developed over the subsequent years.

    georged's caveats reflect the consensus opinion, but my attitude is to take a risk -- a broken classic pipe is still a broken pipe. If the glue works, then good for you. If it doesn't, well, then you still have a broken pipe. I say, grow a pair and do it!

    I find myself sitting idly on the line dividing past and future,
    as if I could kill time without injuring eternity. -- Thoreau
    Posted 4 years ago #
  8. zack24

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    Get a slow setting Thin CA glue. Drop it in, apply clamp,go get a beer...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  9. georged

    georged

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    Cortez and Zack ---

    The embedded metal ring/tube around the mortise is almost certainly a repair, which means the crack isn't fresh but has has "smoking age." Such older cracks always fill (to some degree) with combustion residues and moisture through capillary action, meaning the wood is usually too dirty for the glue to hold well.

    Something I'm not sure of is how jpmcwjr intends to open the crack with the repair ring holding the end of the shank together. If it was by inserting the stem to produce outward pressure, creating a flattened "football" sort of opening, using a wicking ca glue could---and would, very likely---glue then tenon in place. A MUCH more difficult situation to deal with. And if he intended to use some other object that didn't fill the mortise and so created unequal pressure, the pipe could be further damaged in other ways. Small square/diamond shanks are fragile.

    Anyway, such considerations (plus a few more I haven't gone into), together with jpmcwjr's probable inexperience with such things (only an impression, I admit) made me think that discretion is the better part of valor in this case.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  10. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    Quite right about my inexperience in repairing such things!

    Still undecided, but there's no rush at all. If I were to glue it, I'd not keep the tenon in for that process, but wedge it open just a hair with a tapered wooden piece that would not be in contact with the crack. Then once the glue is in, I'd clamp and then wipe the interior with something to remove any oozing out inside the mortise. A Q-tip? A piece of soft wood?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  11. cortezattic

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    georged's advice is spot-on if this pipe justifies the cost of professional repair.
    I'm guessing that would come to a minimum of $25 plus round trip postage.

    Otherwise, I'd choose the riskier CA glue job.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  12. mso489

    mso489

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    These guys know what they're talking about, and I don't, but I'd say, don't pry it apart. Maybe get a little dental syringe, such as is used to apply meds to sensitive teeth, and use it to apply the glue sparingly. You don't want it to block the airway. Then clamp, securely but not torquing it up to the hilt. If the pipe is expensive, or means a lot for other reasons, spend the money on professional repair.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  13. dmcmtk

    dmcmtk

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    The thing I find most curious is the internal shank band is on a Comoy's pipe......the third I've seen or heard about......

    Dave
    Duke Street Irregular
    Posted 4 years ago #
  14. georged

    georged

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    The thing I find most curious is the internal shank band is on a Comoy's pipe......the third I've seen or heard about......

    I've seen quite a few. Comoy's produced the most graceful and slender (i.e. more easily damaged) standards of the major BritWood companies, and many of their lines are collectable today. Meaning worth the effort to repair internally. It's a tricky fix, and doesn't always work (for long, anyway), but since the worst outcome is "no harm done" and external banding is still possible, many serious collectors' prefer it as their first choice.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  15. newbroom

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    Ah! an internal reinforcement of the mortise...I like that idea even better. I can see that the og stem would require modification, but still be utilized, at least on MY pipe.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  16. gloucesterman

    gloucesterman

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    I'm with Georged. Possible contaminates make any long term adhesion of even the best CA glues suspect and damage that can be done when applying that kind of repair, if you're not skilled, can render the finish very difficult to restore. The band is the better choice.

    Posted 4 years ago #

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