Pipes Magazine » General Pipe Smoking Discussion

Search Forums  
   
Tags:  No tags yet. 

Hacker's Book Fibbed on Perique!

(125 posts)
  • Started 4 years ago by pipesmokingtom
  • Latest reply from ssjones
  1. pipesmokingtom

    pipesmokingtom

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,247

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Reading through his book again, 21st Century Guide, and he says that perique is literally soaked in plum juice and fruit pulp before it's pressed and fermented. He says that!

    I was told by multiple reputable people that it's just soaked in water and all the plummy funky goodness is natural to the tobacco.

    I want to believe them and think that Hacker is a fibber and perique isn't flavored!

    "We have an unspoken, mutual understanding to ignore the things we hate about each other so we can continue to enjoy the things we love about each other."
    Posted 4 years ago #
  2. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

    The Bard Of Barlings
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 9,776

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Perhaps one of the master blenders who visit here will be able to address this.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 4 years ago #
  3. User has not uploaded an avatar

    jitterbugdude

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 1,034

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I've made several batches of Perique. I can say with 100% confidence that whoever this Hacker guy is he is full of shit. Perique is simply tobacco that has been pressed in a barrel over a period of time. It's not soaked in water. Water is sprayed onto the leaves during the packing process in order to make them as soft as possible.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  4. mortonbriar

    mortonbriar

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Oct 2013
    Posts: 913

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I found some useful information in Hacker's books when I was first reading up on tobacco and pipes, but I did get the feeling that he would be unlikely to believe that he was wrong about something pipe related.
    I'm not really meaning to give the guy such a hard time, good on him for putting information out there, particularly pre internet, the 21st century edition is a little ironic given the information now available online (my wife got it for me for christmas, it was a pretty good guess and not worth pointing out that it was the 'wrong' pipe book, i am just grateful she accepts my obsession).

    Isaac

    I don't really care if the cup is half full or half empty, I just want something to sip on.
    Posted 4 years ago #
  5. pipesmokingtom

    pipesmokingtom

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,247

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I got it for Christmas as well. I'm not meaning to bust his balls too much either, but that's a pretty fundamental error and with the obsession many folks have with perique, completely missing the mark on its description in the tobacco styles portion of your book seems like a major oopsie.

    There are some other, I'll say, disagreements I have with some of the other information, but that's bound to happen. The perique thing really made me raise an eyebrow though, especially for someone who is the "definitive authority" and THE pipe author of the time.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  6. phil67

    phil67

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2013
    Posts: 2,210

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I don't have the 21st Century Guide, but I do have 'The Ultimate Pipe Book' by Hacker.
    In the chapter of tobaccos he describes Perique as:

    Perique is just the opposite of Burely, and achieves its strong taste from being pressed and then fermented in its own juices.

    Why describes Perique in his newer book in a totally different way is beyond me!

    ~I started out with nothing, and still have most of it.~
    Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. Mark Twain
    Posted 4 years ago #
  7. pipesmokingtom

    pipesmokingtom

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,247

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    That makes it even more bizarre.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  8. huntertrw

    huntertrw

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jul 2014
    Posts: 4,005

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    "Hacker's Book Fibbed on Perique!"

    Mr. Hacker may have misstated in his comments on perique, but to say that he "fibbed" is potentially libelous, so tread carefully.

    Love Me, Love My Pipe
    Posted 4 years ago #
  9. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

    The Bard Of Barlings
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 9,776

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I found some useful information in Hacker's books when I was first reading up on tobacco and pipes, but I did get the feeling that he would be unlikely to believe that he was wrong about something pipe related.

    Hacker pioneered writing about pipes, their history and their lore and he has provided a large amount of useful information. The interviews that Hacker conducted, like the one with Alfred Sasieni, are really interesting. I'll still recommend his books, but with reservations.

    Unfortunately Hacker also provided a lot of misinformation, where accurate information that was not Internet dependent and which only required visiting a major public library and doing the footwork, could have been sourced. He never writes "as far as I know" or "to the best of my knowledge" which instantly takes him out of the realm of serious researcher. There's a certain egotism that's breathtaking. If you view Hacker as an advanced enthusiast and not as a researcher you can get a lot out of his writings. More accurate and substantiated information is to be found elsewhere.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  10. mrenglish

    mrenglish

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2010
    Posts: 2,306

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    When was this book released?

    Michael
    Posted 4 years ago #
  11. huntertrw

    huntertrw

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jul 2014
    Posts: 4,005

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    "When was this book released?"

    "Pipesmoking - A 21st Century Guide" was copyrighted in the year 2000.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  12. kcghost

    kcghost

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2011
    Posts: 2,381

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    This thread is classic internet dialog. Most of it is thoughtful, serious, and courteous. The rest is just old style immature oneupsmanship.

    Hacker was one of the few guys prior to the internet who actually wrote about cigars and pipes. His books were well received by the smoking public. As Sable says his writings are flawed but valuable.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  13. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

    The Bard Of Barlings
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 9,776

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Permit me to add, reservations aside, as an overview Hacker's books are well worth reading.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  14. pipesmokingtom

    pipesmokingtom

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,247

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I really like the book, and don't discount it or anything else he's done.

    As far as libel and "oneupmanship", I hoped the tone of the original post conveyed some tongue-in-cheekiness, but perhaps I'm wrong.

    It just seemed like an odd mistake to me, and now even more so now that I've learned the description of perique was changed from book to book.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  15. pipesmokingtom

    pipesmokingtom

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,247

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Permit me to add, reservations aside, as an overview Hacker's books are well worth reading

    Agreed and I learned some things I didn't know. Don't mistake my picking out of one single line about one specific type of tobacco as anything other than being a goof.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  16. mrenglish

    mrenglish

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2010
    Posts: 2,306

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I almost quit pipe smoking until I found his Ultimate Pipe Book. I learned everything I was doing wrong and was able to correct the mistakes due to this. Not sure I would still be smoking a pipe if it was not Hacker's book. Sure, there is a lot of incorrect information but the basics are solid, imo.

    @hunter - Thanks for posting the publishing info. I never did pick up that one.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  17. philobeddoe

    Philo Beddoe

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 4,551

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Rick Hackers' Ultimate Pipe Book was very helpful to me when I was moving away from pipes and tobaccos available at drugstores into pipes and tobaccos available at B&M's. It was a very quick way to learn a great deal about our hobby at a time when there was very little to nothing being written about pipes and tobaccos. I even purchased the Ultimate Pipe Video, which is quite interesting in its own right. I know that there is a lot of opinion in addition to the facts in his books, but I do believe that he was trying to be factually correct at the time he wrote the books. I am very grateful to Rick Hacker for writing his books on pipes and pipe smoking and wish he would write more.

    "So it goes." - K.V.
    Posted 4 years ago #
  18. settersbrace

    settersbrace

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 1,622

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    His 21st Century guide and Rick Newcombs book "in search of pipe dreams" really opened my eyes to the world of collecting pipes but even more so, estate pipes. I've heard much of the vile that gets tossed in Hackers direction over the years but I've got no grudges. Good books to have in the shelf.

    De gustibus et cloribus non disputandum.
    'There is no arguing about tastes and colours.'
    Posted 4 years ago #
  19. pipesmokingtom

    pipesmokingtom

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,247

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I've heard much of the vile that gets tossed in Hackers direction over the years but I've got no grudges

    I never knew Hacker-bashing was a thing. Hope my little post about perique isn't seen as such - though if bad-mouthing him is common, I could see how it could be.

    No ill will or malice intended from me of course.

    Cheers.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  20. warren

    warren

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 7,637

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    It was worse a few years ago. People tend to accept Hacker as a positive now days. In the past some would take delight in tearing him down. I attributed that attitude to jealousy more than anything else. The guy had a dream job and he worked hard at it. Still does! He's a good, if sometimes fallible, spokesman.

    Your post wasn't the gloating type, so you'll get no guff from me.

    A man without a shillelagh is a man without an expedient.
    Posted 4 years ago #
  21. maxpeters

    maxpeters

    Senior Member
    Joined: Jan 2010
    Posts: 458

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I agree with you philo, his books were very helpful to opening up the world of pipe smoking for me too. Before the internet there were very very few books about pipes and pipe smoking. I remember searching all the libraries and used books stores I could find to see if they might have anything relating to the hobby. Came up with a few out of print books, but Hacker's was the most enlightening. Now days the internet makes everyone an almost instant expert. On almost everything. How easy it is to sit back in your chair and click a few buttons and have instant access to every facet of whatever interest you.
    I guess someone should ask him about this discrepancy? Is he still around?
    I still have his Ultimate Pipe Book, Rare Smoke, and his Christmas Pipe book. Before his Christmas Pipe book, no one that I know of wrote anything about them. Just as an aside, he also wrote many fine articles and books on firearms and black powder hunting. Not to mention his books and articles on alcoholic beverages, and cigars. The guy traveled around the world talking to the people involved in these businesses, and asking questions. I enjoy his interviews with them very much.
    I guess everyone is entitled to an error. It would be interesting to find out why he wrote what he did about Perique though.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  22. pipesmokingtom

    pipesmokingtom

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,247

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I know perique has teetered on the brink of extinction.. Maybe at that time, it was sketchy and producers were faking it by fermenting it with fruit juice? It would be interesting to find out, which is really why I started this anyway.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  23. warren

    warren

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 7,637

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Email him and ask: richardcarletonhacker.com

    Posted 4 years ago #
  24. pipesmokingtom

    pipesmokingtom

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,247

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I'm on it. I will report back with my findings.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  25. warren

    warren

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 7,637

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Good man you are! I'm a bit curious also.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  26. pipesmokingtom

    pipesmokingtom

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,247

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Package delivered. Hopefully I hear back soon.

    Surely, there HAS to be a reason for the change in description between his books.

    Anyone knowledgeable in perique have a clue as to what might have been going on in 2000 that would cause someone to believe it was soaked in juice? Was it at some point in its history? I've searched my memory for other mentions of plum juice and can't come up with anything.

    I love me some perique, so if there is a bit of info out there I don't know - I'd like to.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  27. doctorthoss

    doctorthoss

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 644

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Speaking as a professional writer, we might also want to consider the possibility that an editor or some peon in the long process from manuscript to print and distribution edited in a factual error. It's happened to me and plenty of others. And when it comes to books -- unlike a web site or printed periodical -- you cannot just issue a correction. It doesn't take much -- just someone in the chain who thinks they know better and decides to "fix" the writer's work.
    It's also possible, as several have pointed out, that perhaps there was a point when perique was flavored. My memory is certainly sketchy here, but I vaguely recall that at one point -- possibly the 90s - perique came pretty close to exinction.
    I hope we hear back something definitive soon.
    Personally, I find it a little strange (and have felt this way for a few years now) that many smokers now seem to be disappointed or incensed at the possibility of our tobacco being "flavored" somehow. Even if it was soaked in plum juice or some such, I don't see what the big deal would be. Pretty much everything we smoke has been cased at some point along the line, as well as processed in many other ways. I mean, Latakia is a flavored tobacco at least as much as the alleged plum soaked perique would be, and I'm pretty sure that stoving, pressing, and fermenting add flavors that don't occur naturally. I'm a little befuddled by what seems (IMHO, of course) this trend over the past few years toward preferring (or professing to prefer) "natural" tobacco flavors or asserting that cased/topped tobacco is somehow inferior, when it just isn't. Heck, I doubt anyone on this forum who hasn't actually worked in the tobacco industry has ever smoked 100 percent unflavored pipe tobacco. Most of the grand old classics (and contemporary ones even) are far from being all natural products. There's obviously a huge difference between, say, FVF or 1Q, but I think of it as a difference in degree rather than in kind. Sugars, anise, cocoa, almond, and a host of alcoholic spirits have been integral parts of our favorite blends for generations with no one giving it a second thought. It's always been the case that some smokers prefer more naturalistic styles and don't like goopy cavendish aros (I once read some fascinating internal industry reports and surveys on smoker preference) but tobacco that isn't cased somewhere along the line without at least some sugar water is darn near unsmokeble. Anyhow, forgive me as I step down from my soapbox -- I've found myself more and more fascinated by these types of discussions in recent years than anything else, and don't personally care all that much about casing or topping so long as the end result is tasty.

    "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. For even the wise cannot see all ends. -- J.R.R. Tolkien
    Posted 4 years ago #
  28. beefeater33

    beefeater33

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 2,584

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Well said Doctorhoss!---- I couldn't agree more. Glad to see you back in the ring and posting... You out of the Hospital now?,
    I hope all is well!....

    "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."
    Willy Wonka
    Posted 4 years ago #
  29. pipesmokingtom

    pipesmokingtom

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,247

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I agree doctorhoss, to the level that I've made many a post arguing the same point. I certainly don't hold "natural" tobacco in higher regard to cased or flavored.

    How perique is made is something I thought I knew though, and to hear something completely different confused me!

    That an editor changed it seems unlikely, to me at least. I get the feeling Hacker has quite a bit of positive control over his content, but I'll leave it open as a possibility.

    Hopefully we hear back soon.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  30. robwoodall

    robwoodall

    Senior Member
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 431

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I don't know anything about the history of Perique or the Hunter book, but...

    Fermented tobacco soaked in plum juice and fruit pulp sounds mighty tempting! If that's not a thing, someone needs to invent it!!!

    Baccyfart, I'm counting on you!

    Posted 4 years ago #
  31. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

    The Bard Of Barlings
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 9,776

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I was reading one of Pease's articles wherein he states that all tobacco has some kind of topping or processing applied as it's otherwise essentially flavorless. That includes the so called "natural" tobaccos Doctorhoss mentions. Fads in the Hobby? Quel surprise.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  32. pipesmokingtom

    pipesmokingtom

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,247

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Oh, yeah for sure. I read the same one I think. If I remember, he said something like "if you have to ask, I've done my job."

    Fermenting in its own juices I suppose is an added flavor. So is plum juice. I'm cool either way, just want to know to satisfy my own curiosity and desire to know things that don't actually affect my life in any appreciable way haha

    Posted 4 years ago #
  33. northernneil

    northernneil

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 1,454

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    all tobacco has some kind of topping or processing applied as it's otherwise essentially flavorless

    I disagree with this. I agree that 99% of tobacco available on the market today (maybe more) has some kind of casing applied. That being said, natural tobacco has a wonderful flavor with no casing required. How do I know you ask? Well, I had to grow my own, ferment it and age it over 3 years to find out for myself!

    Are casings required to add flavor to tobacco? No, at least not in my little experiment. Are casings required to maintain humidity, discourage mold and assist in transportation? Yes. I lost about 65% of my crop to natural disaster, then about 85% of the remaining yield to mold during fermentation and aging process. If I was trying to make a living, I would have been screwed.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  34. pipesmokingtom

    pipesmokingtom

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,247

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Ok

    *all commercial tobacco that is to be sold for consumption and hopes to maintain any freshness or consistency.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  35. User has not uploaded an avatar

    jitterbugdude

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 1,034

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    "natural tobacco has a wonderful flavor with no casing required"

    Agree 100%!

    Posted 4 years ago #
  36. phil67

    phil67

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2013
    Posts: 2,210

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    This might be just a simple case of Hacker spreading himself too thin over a vast array of subjects:

    Books:

    The Ultimate Pipe Book

    Pipesmoking: A 21st Century Guide

    Rare Smoke: The Ultimate Guide to Pipe Collecting

    The Christmas Pipe

    The Ultimate Cigar Book

    Articles:

    Hacker on Single Malt Whisky

    Hacker on Irish Whisky

    Hacker on Tequila

    Hacker on Rum

    Hacker on Bourbon

    Hacker on Vodka

    Hacker on Cognac

    Hacker on Gin

    Hacker on Wine

    Hacker on Port

    Hacker on Cocktails

    Hacker on Champagne

    Hacker on Restaurants

    No one can claim to be an expert and know every minute detail about such a plethora of subjects, nor should they attempt to do so. That’s not to say that his information on Perique is wrong, albeit I have serious doubts that it is, but then again I’m not writing a book about pipes and tobacco and I don’t claim to be knowledgeable on the subject.

    On the subject of editing it seems quite odd to me that an editor would suddenly decide off the top of their head that he or she would, for some unfathomable reason, decide to correct that Perique is soaked in plum juice! Sorry, but I just can’t buy that explanation. Then again, for all I know, which isn’t squat about the intricacies of tobaccos, it now might very well be soaked in plum juice. What would be great is if perhaps G.L. Pease or Russ Ouellette could possibly jump in here and describe how Perique is made as who would know better than they! Mind you, I’m in no way criticizing Hacker’s book as I found the Ultimate Pipe Book pleasurable and informative reading, and in the whole grand scheme of things it’s no big deal. However, and for what it’s worth, I’m just one who happens to believe that no information is better than wrong information.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  37. pipesmokingtom

    pipesmokingtom

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,247

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    No reply as of 5:53PM PST. I'm about to call St James Parish, Louisiana and clear this up!

    Posted 4 years ago #
  38. warren

    warren

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 7,637

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    That won't clear up Hacker's comments though. Hang in there, concerned smokers want to know the truth. Perhaps he was addressing plum wine in a planned article and "cut and pasted" a line into another article, being prepped, about Perique. I doubt it, but stranger things have happened on my computer.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  39. pipesmokingtom

    pipesmokingtom

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,247

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Ooooo, maybe that's what he did. Maybe he called them up doing research and they were just like.. "we gotta eff with THIS guy!"

    Posted 4 years ago #
  40. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

    The Bard Of Barlings
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 9,776

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Given the amount of crap that circulates in the Hobby, prune soaked tobacco would be a blessing.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  41. mortonbriar

    mortonbriar

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Oct 2013
    Posts: 913

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    He he Sablebrush, that would a good excuse for pipe smoking regularly.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  42. User has not uploaded an avatar

    jitterbugdude

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 1,034

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    "What would be great is if perhaps G.L. Pease or Russ Ouellette could possibly jump in here and describe how Perique is made as who would know better than they!"

    Uh... me! I've been making Perique for about 5 years now. I've also sampled Perique that has been made in Kentucky, Ohio,Virginia, Pennsylvania and Turkey.

    In a nutshell: Stalk cure the plants. Strip the leaves, moisten with water. Pack into barrels and apply pressure. Unpack occasionally and re-press. Nothing is added to the tobacco with the exception of a small amount of water to make the leaves supple before pressing.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  43. misterlowercase

    misterlowercase

    Member
    Joined: May 2012
    Posts: 4,542

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Perhaps he was thinking of an alternative he'd recently heard of and got the 2 mmixed up,
    perique is so expensive that companies have manufactured "perique replacements" to emulate the unique characteristics, I've seen a recipe that BAT had developed as early as 1945!!!!

    https://industrydocuments.library.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=ytpn0209

    And this Three Nuns manufacture flowchart does show that they used a "perique substitute" to compliment the real stuff, probably a cost-saving measure...

    https://industrydocuments.library.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=fglf0203

    I like Hacker's books.

    And, if it wasn't for him,
    I'd never know that people actually smoked Elephant Butts!
    http://www.smokemag.com/pipes/0698/cross.htm


    Posted 4 years ago #
  44. jimbo44

    jimbo44

    Junior Member
    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 63

    offline

    Login to Send PM

  45. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 1,206

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    @jimbo44...I can't seem to kick that nasty cigarette habit. Don't smoke nearly as many cigs now as I used to but when I do, those American Spirit Blacks w/Perique are what I get. Not bad for nails.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  46. phil67

    phil67

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2013
    Posts: 2,210

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Interesting video, but where the hell is the freaking Sunsweet Plum juice!

    Posted 4 years ago #
  47. User has not uploaded an avatar

    bigpipeguy

    New Member
    Joined: Jun 2009
    Posts: 2

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Rick Hacker's strong point is/was his overall knowledge of the pipe and tobacco industry. His Rare Smoke Book, which is a good read and still important, utilized a lot of material from different sources that were unacknowledged. The book would have been more valuable if it had been published in 1989 when the pipe brands he wrote about were still being sought by the top collectors. When the book was published - Rick Newcombe was leading the charge for the then new Danish style revolution - so Hacker's book was somewhat dated even when it was first published.

    No expert on how perique is/was made but the newer perique is much less pungent than days of old when even more that 2-3% could completely overpower a blend.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  48. brass

    brass

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2014
    Posts: 1,862

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I'll be watching for updates. But in 40 plus years of smoking, I've always thought the Perique was Louisiana tobacco, water and pressure.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  49. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

    Unregistered

    Posts: 1,206

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Look at all those hands and noses trying to get in that barrel, ahha:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqte2RxsGcM

    Posted 4 years ago #
  50. pappymac

    pappymac

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Feb 2015
    Posts: 1,862

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    The only "true" Perique is produced in St. James Parish which is a short trip upriver from New Orleans. They use an old method of processing the tobacco and from what I understand it involves spraying some water on the leaves and then pressing the tobacco in barrels. I am signed up for a tour of the St. James Perique facility in October the day before the New Orleans Pipe Show. If I remember this thread, I'll update with what I learn.

    I am glad we have a good admin and responsible moderators.

    Heave to you dark colored ship under sail! Prepare to be boarded!
    Posted 4 years ago #
  51. pappymac

    pappymac

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Feb 2015
    Posts: 1,862

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Doctorhoss is correct about the problems with mistakes and misinformation creeping into published work. As a retired journalist/photographer who was also a magazine editor for 10 years, I can attest to the fact that avoidable mistakes are often made. Once they are printed in a book, they are extremely hard to correct. On the other hand, what drives me nuts is the mistakes that I see in internet articles where the writers rely too heavily on spell and grammar check.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  52. User has not uploaded an avatar

    jitterbugdude

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 1,034

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    "The only "true" Perique is produced in St. James Parish "

    I always found this to be an odd statement. Besides being a marketing ploy, what exactly is everyone's take on this?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  53. warren

    warren

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 7,637

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Why do you find that odd? That is exactly where Perique is grown. The name stems from the man credited with developing it, Pierre Chenet. I know of no other Periques, nor any faux Periques. Might be some "wanna be" around I just am not familiar with them.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  54. pipesmokingtom

    pipesmokingtom

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,247

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    It's not a marketing ploy, so much as just a fact.

    Perique is in such demand, they don't need to market it. It's sold before it's even made.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  55. User has not uploaded an avatar

    jitterbugdude

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 1,034

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    "Why do you find that odd"

    I say this because Perique can be grown anywhere and processed anywhere. You do not even need Perique seed, any kind of tobacco can be used. Saying only true Perique is produced in St James Parish is like saying only true Burley is produced in Kentucky, or only true Virginia is produced in the mid section of Virginia.

    St James Perique will have a flavor that is different than a Perique grown and processed in another state. Just because it is grown in St James doesn't make it superior, just different.

    Last year I conducted an experiment with 13 pipe smokers. I sent them 4 different samples of a VaPer. 1 of the samples contained St James Perique, the other contained, Havana 263 processed as Perique, Bolivian Criollo and Brown leaf all processed as Perique. The results were that 50% of the subjects correctly guessed the sample with St James in it but 65% of the test subjects said the VaPer made with Havana 263 (made in to Perique) was the best tasting. This was a blind test where the vast majority of smokers said the best tasting Perique was NOT from St James.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  56. dustmite

    dustmite

    Member
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 268

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Sparkling white wine is made everywhere. Champagne comes from France. Fermented tobacco can be made anywhere. Perique comes from St. James Parish, LA.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  57. seadogontheland

    seadogontheland

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 614

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Come on...its made from peppercorns and vinegar layered leaf by leaf...I read it on the internet at wikitobaccotruthforallsuckers.com.

    Life is good...I have truly been blessed.
    Posted 4 years ago #
  58. warren

    warren

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 7,637

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Gees, that's like agreeing that Russian Cognac (so labeled)is indeed cognac when in fact it is not from the Cognac region of France. Incidentally, the Russians should have their peepees spanked for doing that.

    Precess a leaf not grown in the correct region, process it any old way you wish and call it Perique. It's not Perique except in your mind. To call such is a misappelation.

    Perique is not a process, it is a tobacco, grown in a particular area of Louisiana. Where did you learn "perique" is a process? You can't "Perique", its a noun not a verb. You can't Perique, nor have you ever "periqued" any more than you can go "periqueing." He, she or it cannot perique.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  59. phil67

    phil67

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2013
    Posts: 2,210

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Yep, true Perique only comes from Louisiana, and just as dustmite pointed out, real Champagne only comes from the Champagne region of France. Same as Perique Liqueur which is distilled in France, but... it's made from Louisiana Perique.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  60. pipesmokingtom

    pipesmokingtom

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,247

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    You can't Perique, nor have you ever "periqued" any more than you can go "periqueing."

    That's disappointing, because I feel like I'd really like to go periqueing - even though I have no idea what that would be.

    Hacker also said that growing Perique has been attempted in other regions but those attempts have failed and Perique can only truly be grown in St. James Parish. Something to do with the minerals along the Mississippi River.

    Who knows what truth there is in that - I suspect the profit margin sucks for as much work as it is, so no one wants to do it.

    I haven't heard back from Hacker.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  61. warren

    warren

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 7,637

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    He may by out test driving wines or some such.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  62. User has not uploaded an avatar

    jitterbugdude

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 1,034

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Sorry guys but you've all been duped by advertising!
    Perique is simply a process of anaerobically fermenting tobacco. It doesn't matter where you ferment it. Perique, when finished will have almost all yeasts as the primary microbe. I've been growing and processing tobacco for 20 years now and have made enough Perique and sampled enough worldwide to know that Perique is more of a process than a particular cultivar of tobacco grown in a specific region.

    As far as the often quoted " Perique was grown somewhere else and it failed...." Just because some boobs attempted to make Perique and failed isn't justification for saying it can't be grown anywhere else.

    There is another myth that is similar to the Perique myth and that is Turkish Tobacco cannot be grown anywhere else but in Turkey. People like to cite the fact that it was tried here in the States once and the experiment failed. What people don't realize is for this attempt the growers planted Turkish plants like Burley (3 ft spacing as opposed to 8 inch spacing). They irrigated (Turkish is not) and they fertilized (Turkish is not). So to say Turkish cannot be grown in the States is bs... sames as Perique.

    If only real Perique is made in St James then I guess only real wine is grown in Napa Valley, only real sourdough bread in made in San Fransisco, only real pizza is made by Italians, only real Periogies are made by Poles.

    Real "Champagne" is only made in France because it is a law that in order for it to be called "Champagne" it must be made in the Champagne region. Champagne can be made anywhere, just like Perique.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  63. dochudson

    dochudson

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2012
    Posts: 1,722

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    You can take Cuban seed out of Cuba and grow it anywhere else but it won't be a Cuban cigar or will it look or taste like one.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  64. pappymac

    pappymac

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Feb 2015
    Posts: 1,862

    offline

    Login to Send PM

  65. pappymac

    pappymac

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Feb 2015
    Posts: 1,862

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    From the Pipe Magazine article:
    "Perique is a unique and rare type of tobacco that comes exclusively from one small swath of land near New Orleans. It is used as a "condiment tobacco" to make nearly a hundred different brand name pipe tobacco blends from around the world. It’s existence has been in jeopardy more than once, first in the late 1990s and then in 2005. It may have become "extinct". In 2005, the L.A. Poche Perique Tobacco company was purchased by Mark Ryan, and a new era for Perique began. This tobacco has an intriguing history, and it adds a delectable nuance to many different blends. We sat down and chatted with Mr. Ryan recently so he could tell us the story of Perique tobacco."

    Posted 4 years ago #
  66. warren

    warren

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 7,637

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Pray tell: What is this mysterious method you call "perique?" How do you perique another leaf which is not Perique. I guess we can now use "periqoe" as a verb.

    Made anywhere else, champagne (small cee) is just champagne. A Napa wine only comes from Napa. Perhaps you should not capitalize "perique" when you are writing about wannbes.

    When an arguemnet slides into the absurb I usually ask for citations. Some supporting citations please for your assertions, jitterbugdude.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  67. northernneil

    northernneil

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 1,454

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Sorry guys but you've all been duped by advertising!

    As I understand it, for a tobacco to be considered perique, it must be a specific strain of tobacco grown in a specific location. For example, if you grow green river burley, process it like perique, and mix it with the true St James Parish Perique, then it is no longer called Perique, but Acadian Perique.

    I have no doubt that any tobacco grown in any location can be processed in the same way as perique, but it will not be perique. Just like anyone can make a corn whisky outside of Kentucky, but it will not be consider a true burbon unless it is made in Kentucky with a specific percentage of corn. Again, burbon can be made anywhere in the world, but for it to be a true burbon, it has to come from Kentucky! I believe, as do the majority of pipe Smokers, that this is the case with Perique.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  68. northernneil

    northernneil

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 1,454

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    If only real Perique is made in St James then I guess only real wine is grown in Napa Valley, only real sourdough bread in made in San Fransisco, only real pizza is made by Italians, only real Periogies are made by Poles.

    You are completely ignoring the fact that terroir will affect that characteristics of something grown in ground. As dochudson said, you can take Cuban seed out of Cuba, but that cigar will not taste the same as a cuba as the ground the plant was grown in was different, changing the flavor profile of the plant. Terroir is a fact, and cannot be disputed. All natural products that grow in the grown will be affected by terroir, and perique is no different.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  69. phil67

    phil67

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2013
    Posts: 2,210

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    What is this mysterious method you call "perique?" How do you perique another leaf which is not Perique. I guess we can now use "periqoe" as a verb.

    I'm periqueing a 1 1/2" rib eye steak on the grill this afternoon. When finished I estimate that it will end up being only 1/32" thick but, hey... that's what happens when you perique something!

    Posted 4 years ago #
  70. pipesmokingtom

    pipesmokingtom

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,247

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Even if you COULD duplicate perique with the same strain growing somewhere else, that doesn't mean said strain growing somewhere else and "periqued" should be called perique.

    I'm usually a pragmatist about these sorts of things and would normally argue that it doesn't matter - but not here.

    I think there is value in protected, region-specific nomenclature ie. champagne, cognac, bourbon, scotch. You know when you buy it that that's what that thing IS and not a replica or an out-of-region duplication. I get annoyed when a sparkling wine labels as champagne, I would be annoyed if a distiller in Nevada labeled their corn whiskey as bourbon, etc.

    Would perique made somewhere else function as perique and maybe even get away with tasting periquey enough in a VaPer blend or something? Sure. Do I want it to? No.

    Posted 4 years ago #

Reply »

You must log in to post.

 

 

    Back To Top  | Back to Forum Home Page

   Members Online Now
   gatorlope, ravkesef, laniromee, lawdawg, nunnster, newportpipe, k9shag, ben88, pianopuffer, cowboythunder, krizzose, prairiedruid, jpberg, jiminks