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Grief, Anger, and Cooperation

(64 posts)
  • Started 5 months ago by sittingbear
  • Latest reply from foursidedtriangle
  1. sittingbear

    sittingbear

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    Everyone knows that the five stages of grief are shock, disbelief, anger, compromise, and acceptance. I have been stuck in the “anger” stage of grief over the demise of McClelland Tobacco Company for some time now. Not that I am angry at the McNiels necessarily, but I am angry over the situation. They did not close the doors due to lack of interest, but rather because of the loss of traditional tobacco aging techniques and, consequently, the unavailability of the high-quality leaf that defined their products. The loss of McClelland tobacco is a symptom of a larger problem, which is itself the result of economic and legislative forces.

    Being stuck in the “anger” stage of grief means that I find myself unwilling to move into the “compromise” stage. This, combined with the large amount of literature I’ve read over the years on agrarian, community-based subsidiarity and civil disobedience, has got me thinking...

    What would it take to form a non-profit co-op made up of dedicated smokers for the purpose of producing high-quality leaf and processing it using traditional techniques? The product would not be “sold,” since it is already owned by the co-op members from the beginning, thus avoiding FDA regulations. It would be more of a “hobby farm” supported by a large number of enthusiasts around the country/world who would be able to reap the benefits of traditional farming and production methods. It may even qualify as a cultural heritage program.

    Of course, the co-op would have to start very small. Maybe not on a farm, per se, but rather in someone’s back yard. In fact, it wouldn't even have to be "official" in a legislative sense. Just amateur gardeners supporting one another. Knowledge and experience would be harder to come by. Blending techniques would also need to be learned. (I wonder if they cover these things in any of the old Foxfire books?) Of course, some of our own members are already dabbling in this sort of thing... (I’m looking at you, Cosmic!) I also know of at least one old-time blender in Chicago who knows how to process tobacco, not just blend it.

    I don’t know, maybe I’m just pissing into the wind. But I like to brainstorm. It’s what I do.

    Thoughts?

    Posted 5 months ago #
  2. 3rdguy

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    I thought they exited mainly because they just wanted out. Didn’t Pease state shortly afterwards there is no shortage of quality leaf? Maybe I am wrong.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  3. ashdigger

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    I cannot think of a more practical way to waste time and money than trying a boutique co-op for tobacco users. Maybe I'm the oddball here, but I can't see for the life of me how this would produce enough tobacco to even cover the cost of producing said tobacco. Tobacco isn't like moonshine.

    I say resolve your anger with some Borkum Riff and move on to bulk Captain Black.

    Ubi Ignis Est?
    Posted 5 months ago #
  4. brian64

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    As to whether it would work and be practical or not, I have no idea...but in a free country you could certainly try such an endeavor if you wanted to.

    But in the current bizarre hybrid socialist corporatocracy we find ourselves in it would be targeted and eliminated as any number of other such farming co-ops have been.

    “Bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out.” – George Carlin
    Posted 5 months ago #
  5. carolinachurchwarden

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    I thought they exited mainly because they just wanted out. Didn’t Pease state shortly afterwards there is no shortage of quality leaf? Maybe I am wrong.

    From what I read, it was as the OP stated. They could no longer source the leaf they had been used to getting due to most no longer processing it in the same way. They said that they could always source a lesser quality leaf and still continue producing, but that was not the same type of quality that all those who followed and loved the blends had been accustomed to. In the essence of maintaining that what they produced was the highest quality they could give consumers, they closed the doors in lieu of sacrificing that quality standard.

    As far as trying to create a Co-Op, I could see many different issues with it if it were not managed appropriately. Starting in someone's backyard would be tough to produce enough tobacco for all those invested. Not to mention, who's yard? What's the guarantee that something wouldn't happen to a crop and cause it to go bad? Who's responsible for it? Too many questions that I don't think it could realistically work. Nice idea though.

    "If you can't send money, send tobacco." - George Washington

    Posted 5 months ago #
  6. cosmicfolklore

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    I understand why we have this misconception. The McNiels left behind a "Rosebud" sort of suicide note when they closed, and everyone takes that note as a fact. Maybe these people actually believed the things in that note, or maybe they just wanted a reason to justify their closing. But, high quality leaf is still being produced on a commercial level. In fact, the main ingredient in most cigarettes is red Virginias. It is produced by the ton... great quality also. In fact, the pipe community uses less of the highest quality red Virginias than any other means of smoking. It is used in chew, commercial cigars, snuff, all forms of smoking.

    My interpretation of what that letter meant was that there was not a red that met the exclusive needs of making their one specific recipe. That does not mean that all that is left is low quality. That sort of thinking is known as binary thinking. If it is not a 1, it is a 0. When in actuality it is not a one linear scale of qualifying tobacco.

    What I have found is that tobacconist aren't aware of what happens at the production or manufacturing level, because of teh history. Historically, the farmer grows, harvests, and cures the whole crop. They were the only ones who knew how to do this, and with slight variations in temperatures or humidity or light during the cure, a crop would differ in flavors. That does not mean that it rates on a scale of 1-10, more like a dewy decimal system, in that no crop was horrible, but it merely ranks as to what qualities it has.

    Nowadays, the production is corporate, harvesting the crops themselves from leased farmers, and then using commercial flue curing machines to get more reliable cures to meet their needs. Casings applied, and then they sell to places like H&H, Sutliff, etc...

    Now, tobacconists/blenders were unaware of how the curing happened, sometimes even casings applied. They just got these crops and were expected to make something out of them. They had no idea what made one crop of brightleaf a gold or a red or a brown. Maybe a few blenders know a little, but much of what happens in the industry is kept under hats.

    There are also many groups of amateur farmers, growing homegrown tobaccos, very good (maybe great) quality of tobacco. Check out one of the many forums for that, plus youtube. Many many many homegrowers.

    The problem, is that it is illegal for one of us to give, sale, or trade some of this to you. The tobacco companies have made this law to protect themselves and their interests. However, if you come to my house, I can let you smoke some, just like I can serve you a meal from my garden. I just can't let you take any away. And, I :::cough cough::: follow all of the US laws to the :::cough cough::: letter. So, don't start begging me. I just can't.

    However, I can and will encourage all of you to try growing. Not, to hurt the tobacco industry, but to foster an appreciation for the leaf itself. So, much of what we know on this forum comes from just the crap they put on labels, which is merely marketing bullshit... ehh, well, an oversimplification of what is going on inside the tin. It is definitely not gospel. Plus, you'll get an appreciation for the unadulterated leaf. And, maybe one day, once the walls have crumbled and ashes to ashes we are free again, we can then maybe trade our homegrown leaf. But, hopefully that never happens.

    But, as to that letter left behind by the McNiels... make of it what you will, but... none of the other tobacco companies are losing sleep.

    Michael
    Posted 5 months ago #
  7. hoosierpipeguy

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    Whatever, their real reasons for shutting McClelland down, it's done, gone, kaput and not coming back. My guess is there was no one single reason but a combination of things that led to their decision. Nothing to be angry about, there are tons of other great tobacco blends to smoke. If you're angry, you should be angry at yourself for not accessing those other tobacco blends that are readily available.

    Great idea though for starting the cooperative. I nominate you to head that up and get it going. Once you can show your business plan and financials, let me know and I'll consider "cooperating". Other than that, log into one of the site sponsor internet suppliers and start ordering some Virginia blends to smoke. It shouldn't take you long to find several that will sooth your anger.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  8. bnichols23

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    Hard to say, for me at least. I've got a few tins of their stuff left & of course there's always the stuff that surfaces regularly on fleabay. I liked their stuff (the Erik Nording blends & FM particularly of course), but I'm probably fortunate that I hadn't smoked it enough to acquire a dogged determinations about it.

    Head Black Frigate keelhauler, boss powder monkey, & troublemaker 1st class.
    Posted 5 months ago #
  9. jpmcwjr

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    Sorry for your loss and current state! But there are many fine blends out there.

    But in the current bizarre hybrid socialist corporatocracy we find ourselves in it would be targeted and eliminated as any number of other such farming co-ops have been.

    I'm a member of some co-ops, so am interested in the targeting aspect you mention. Could you elaborate or give some examples, please?

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 5 months ago #
  10. crashthegrey

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    I'm with Cosmic here. From the letter and later comments, Virginia tobacco is not at risk, not even red Virginia. They had exacting standards for their particular style and recipe, and when that exact tobacco was not available, they did not want to produce something else, something that they would no longer consider McClelland tobacco. I choose to also believe that they were ready to be done. But that is a meaningless statement. All of this is, really. McClelland is gone and not coming back, and a coop won't fix that, nor will it work in all likelihood. Just keep enjoying what tobacco you can get, make sure you don't let those sales suffer because you miss something gone from the market, and let's make sure we support what we can.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  11. mso489

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    I was really unhappy to see McClellands close. Great tobacco, great folks. I do keep saying, correctly I hope, that this is the golden age of pipe tobacco in terms of numbers and availability of blends via online retailers. It may not last, alas, but right now I think this is so. So I'd enjoy it while we can, and not get stuck on disappointments that occur. In time, we may all have to satisfy ourselves, or not, with many fewer blends and much less convenient distribution. But now I say, make hay while the sun shines.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  12. cosmicfolklore

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    It's been almost three years since I closed the brick and mortar part of my business, and when I go to the grocery store I still get people giving me angry, pissed off, opinions on my closing the biz. Like I have personally insulted them... or worse they think it was because the business was unsuccessful.
    It's funny how the business is so much a part or extension of my own personality, and then this other person comes up and takes me closing the store as some sort of insult to them.

    I see this now with McClellands. But, I guess with a product like tobacco, it is a little closer to home, because of the addiction factor. Can you imagine what it would be like if Camel Cigarettes ever closes up? People could get killed.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  13. folanator

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    Rosebud...lol

    Posted 5 months ago #
  14. brian64

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    Could you elaborate or give some examples, please?

    I've seen and heard numerous such stories over the years, and have posted some here in the past. If you simply do a search on FDA farming raids, raids on co-op farms, raids on Amish farms, FDA farming sting operations, raids on organic farms, etc, etc, you'll have plenty of material to peruse at your leisure.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  15. kcghost

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    Whine all you want people, you were given plenty of notice. I left several hints of what was happening. Rosebud, my ass.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  16. cosmicfolklore

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    Rosebud, my ass

    TMI

    Posted 5 months ago #
  17. ashdigger

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    Here's an example of government justifying it's power.

    Now imagine it's an even more regulated crop, like tobacco.

    https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/nov/12/farm--table-event-turns-sour-when-inspector-crashe/

    Posted 5 months ago #
  18. cosmicfolklore

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    Yeh, overenthusiastic inspectors. I don't think that is the spirit of the law, nor would something like that happen everywhere.
    In Alabama we have recently have been having pushes and pulls between lawmakers and whoever it is busting stores for selling CBD oils. They've even raided Walmarts for selling that hem,p string used in crafts like macrame and knitting. They will pass a law that makes it legal, and then whichever police force that is doing this will reinterpret the laws saying that it is not legal. From day to day, no one is sure which it is. Apparently the lawmakers want it to be legal, but the police do not. Go figure.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  19. spartacus

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    I'm with Cosmic on the grow your own. I have seeds in hand and plan to start germination in February. I expect it will take a few years if not more to understand what's going on. The growing is the easy part (I think). The drying/curing is the challenge.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  20. 3rdguy

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    It is good to know I am right on occasion, I will have to tell the wife.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  21. markthelad

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    Here's an example of government justifying it's power.

    Yeah, they were definitely looking to make an example out of someone in that situation.
    In context though, it would be just that easy for them to roll in and shut down a tobacco co-op.

    "I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the day he killed himself."
    Johnny Carson
    Posted 5 months ago #
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    puffthemagicpiper

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    Well d**n. I’m reminded of my very last tins of FM OTT and Cellar. One of each. I honestly can’t decide whether or not to open them.

    I wish I’d seen it coming, just like I wish I’d stocked up on Penzance. Not that I was ever head-over-heels for it, but have y’all seen the prices it’s listed at on eBay?

    Co-op. Interesting idea, but I think so many people would ‘wait and see’ that it’d be hard to get it up and going... /shrug

    Posted 5 months ago #
  23. woodsroad

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    Damn but there are some willfully ignorant people on this forum.

    Let’s start with...

    1) This isn’t about you.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  24. cosmicfolklore

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    1) This isn’t about you

    I have me share of ignorance. My cup runeth over...
    but, if I were going to start a coop of underground tobacco farmers, I would do it right here, in the open, with curious eyes staring at my posts. That just seems like the best way to me. But, it’s not about me.

    But, I empathize. I miss McClellands too. Interestingly, I have stowed back quite a bit, but in waiting for age to have its way with it, I have been exploring other Virginias. And, without having McClellands as my ready benchmark, have been enjoying it. Cest la vie!

    Posted 5 months ago #
  25. chasingembers

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    I've lost many favorites over the past three decades. That's why I developed the mentality of finding something I liked and buying the hell out of it long before I heard the term cellaring. I'll never be without my McClelland favorites, but I also know there are hundreds of other favorites I haven't discovered yet.

    Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you.
    -Edward Teach
    Posted 5 months ago #
  26. ashdigger

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    I just sold off the last of my McClelland stash, except for two jars of 2015 (jarred in 2014)... I'm not crazy, and it feels pretty damn liberating. Besides I have plenty other "select" blends to enjoy.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  27. chasingembers

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    I could probably go without all of mine except Yenidje Highlander.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  28. weezell

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    but I also know there are hundreds of other favorites I haven't discovered yet.

    "the weez"...
    Posted 5 months ago #
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    puffthemagicpiper

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    mso489 is right on the money. This is indeed a golden era. So very many great, no, phenomenal blends. Too many to count really. I miss Mcclelland but whatcha gonna do? My two cents says stock up a bit. The smoking Nazis aren’t going to stop. And while I’m not in the tobaccopocalypse crowd, I think it’s wise to be prudent. At least, this is how I justify TAD.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  30. User has not uploaded an avatar

    puffthemagicpiper

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    Damn but there are some willfully ignorant people on this forum.

    Let’s start with...

    1) This isn’t about you

    Whoa! Sorry

    This is why I’m reticent to join forums. Apparently I’ve violated some unwritten rule.

    Oh well... back to lurking.

    Adios!

    Posted 5 months ago #
  31. chasingembers

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    This is indeed a golden era.

    The Golden Era ended over a decade ago when the FDA announced the impending deeming nonsense. Since then we've lost several blends, a few big name companies, some artisan carvers, and many long time B&M's. While there are still many options available, we are witnessing the beginning of things to come.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  32. hoosierpipeguy

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    This is why I’m reticent to join forums. Apparently I’ve violated some unwritten rule.

    Oh well... back to lurking.

    Why would you do that? If you're really thin skinned, then lurking is probably best. I doubt woodsroad's post was directed at you. It may very have been directed at me. That's fine. I have as much right to post and state my opinion here as anybody does. As you do. As woodsroad does. Having differing opinions and points of view isn't isolated to the internet or forums or anything else for that matter. It does seem many people are more likely to post something in a forum they wouldn't say face to face. I make it a practice not to post anything on a forum that I wouldn't readily say face to face. This forum is rather genteel, I would say a lot more to people's face than I post in here.

    So speak your mind and enjoy yourself. Just be reasonably civil. And don't take anything personally.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  33. sablebrush52

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    The McClelland closure was probably the worst kept secret in the pipes and tobaccos universe. I learned about it months before it was announced. I stocked up on the few blends of their that I really liked, mostly the Reds. People have been warning about the "tobaccopalypse" for years and it made sense to me, given the increasingly toxic social and political environment, so I bought what I liked while it was still available. If I never buy another shred of tobacco, I'm well set.
    There are a lot of great blends to choose from, many, many more than were available when I started smoking a pipe in the early '70's, so I don't see scarcity, just slightly less abundance.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 5 months ago #
  34. woodsroad

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    Some of my best friends on this forum are people who’ve had the gonads to tell me just how wrong I am.

    Hang around here, magicpiper, it just keeps getting better.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  35. sittingbear

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    I think I need to clarify a couple of things.

    First, I think Cosmic caught my drift more than most. I'm not thinking so much of a boutique tobacco company, per se. More of a tobacco gardeners' club. I used the word "co-op" because of some of the farmers' markets co-ops that I've encountered. And my intent was not to supply anyone and everyone with premium pipe tobacco so much as to preserve the knowledge of traditional tobacco production. Having said that, I'm very happy to hear that quality leaf is still being produced (albeit on a corporate level).

    Second, I'm not whining that I don't have enough McClellands (or any other brand) to last until I die. I'm acknowledging that I'm angry about the trend we've been observing for a long time, and asking the question, "how can I be pro-active rather than re-active?"

    Yes, stockpiling is the immediate, stop-gap measure. And I have. I also agree that there are a LOT of other wonderful blends out there; no complaints there, either. However, I'm curious about the craft of tobacco production, the preservation of knowledge and tradition, and the building up of a community of like-minded gardeners.

    I will have to do a search for some of the 'grow your own' threads on this site. Any links that would be particularly helpful?

    Thanks, everyone, for chiming in!

    Posted 5 months ago #
  36. lucky695

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    I'm more of an ignorantly willful type...

    "A pipe gives a wise man time to think and a fool something to stick in his mouth." - C.S. Lewis
    Posted 5 months ago #
  37. sittingbear

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    Also, along with others, I'm not really sure to whom the ad hominem attack was directed, but I am sure that they're not necessary.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  38. woodsroad

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    “I'm angry about the trend we've been observing for a long time”.

    What trend is that? And who is "we". And please define "long time"

    "They did not close the doors due to lack of interest, but rather because of the loss of traditional tobacco aging techniques and, consequently, the unavailability of the high-quality leaf that defined their products. "

    Sorry, but that's simply not true.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  39. ashdigger

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    I say we resurrect The Monkey Wrench Gang.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  40. sittingbear

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    The trend I'm referring to is social engineering by way of taxation and legislation. This site has a whole category dedicated to Tobacco Legislation for just this topic. The FDA deeming rules that everyone has been screaming about are evidence enough of that, I think.

    Also, I was referring to the McNiels' own statement as to why the chose to close. Argue with them, if you disagree with them.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  41. woodsroad

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    "I say we resurrect The Monkey Wrench Gang."

    It is my understanding that once "Medicare For All" is accomplished, the next target is the nationalization of the tobacco farms. So I'm boning up on my Woody Guthrie. Every Man A King is what I always say.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  42. sittingbear

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    Woody Guthrie +1!

    Posted 5 months ago #
  43. woodsroad

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    "Argue with them, if you disagree with them."

    I went one better and called them on the phone. Hoosierpipeguy got it right when he said that it was not one thing that prompted their exit from the business. Certainly there aren't any other pipe tobacco companies who have quit the business recently (Dunhill Pipe Tobacco isn't a company, it is a brand owned by BAT), so to attribute the McNiel's decision to the government is highly misplaced. Social Engineering has nothing to do with it.

    Mike and Mary are getting up in years and wanted to have an enjoyable retirement while they still could. They deserve that, and more. The FDA rules, sourcing tobacco and a myriad of other changes in the industry had taken a lot of the fun out of it for them, but in the end, Mike's bad back, and the fact that he was Ooompah Loompah #1 in the Wonka Tobacco factory, was probably the deciding factor.

    But don't take my word for it, call them up. Mary is wonderful person. Perhaps one of the warmest, most patient, knowledgeable and gracious people in the entire industry. Eric Stokkebye comes in a close second, but he's still running a successful pipe tobacco company.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  44. brian64

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  45. cosmicfolklore

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    http://fairtradetobacco.com/ is one forum that is a great place to start. I haven't been active in a long time, and I am sure that any posts that I made were asking questions from a pipe smokers perspective concerning Virginias, and just didn't know the jargon that growers use, which is really different from what we know from forum and tin labels.

    I would suggest starting with an easy to grow burley, and you'll get a nice starter crop without having to build a flue or any special kilns. If you like what you get, then play around with flue curing. But, you'll have to learn a new set of ways to look at tobacco.

    But, with burleys you can play around with toasting or cavendishes or making your own twists. It's a great starter, IMO.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  46. warren

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    Do not forget that it is the voting electorate that is doing the "social engineering." There are a lot of "single issue" voters supporting well funded and organized groups out there and ... more than a few are members here. The American Cancer Society has been working its magic since before most here were born. I'm not sure why so many are not willing to shoulder any of the blame for the "fix" we smokers find ourselves in. Granted the youngsters here are simply getting the brunt of the success of the anti-tobacco people. Even the tobacco companies saw the writing on the wall years ago and either sold out or expanded into other areas.

    [url=https://finetobacconyc.com/2018/03/02/mcclelland-tobacco-company-makers-legendary-pipe-tobaccos-closes/][/url]

    Reread the above and parse it carefully. Also, you might wish to find and read "woodsroad's" post regarding his personal interaction with the owner of McClelland. Then you can do, as many of us here have, usually more than once or twice, a "mea culpa". This is usually done while wearing sackcloth, rubbing one's toe in the dirt with one's eyes cast respectfully downward, while tugging one's forelock.

    A man without a shillelagh is a man without an expedient.
    Posted 5 months ago #
  47. jpmcwjr

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    Maybe sackcloth is over kill.

    Here's the article: LINK

    Posted 5 months ago #
  48. woodsroad

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    Isn’t renting of garments involved here, too?

    Posted 5 months ago #
  49. jpmcwjr

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    Isn’t renting of garments involved here, too?

    Yes, but if you rend your garment you'll have to pay for the damage. And, ash, gets in clothes all the time. Extra charge for that, too.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  50. woodsroad

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    That’s why I just broke down and bought a tux.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  51. ashdigger

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    And, ash, gets in clothes all the time. Extra charge for that, too.

    Hey, lets not make this personal.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  52. carolinachurchwarden

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    Hey, lets not make this personal.

    Well hell, let's just say that if ash is rifling through my clothes, it's already a personal matter!

    Posted 5 months ago #
  53. cortezattic

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    What's all this I read about McClelland's closing?

    I find myself sitting idly on the line dividing past and future,
    as if I could kill time without injuring eternity. -- Thoreau
    Posted 5 months ago #
  54. davet

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    What's all this I read about McClelland's closing?

    What is this "McClelland's" you speak of ?

    Posted 5 months ago #
  55. ashdigger

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    Let's all have some Christmas Cheer.....too soon?

    Posted 5 months ago #
  56. 5star

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    IMO a large percentage of laws are written to benefit very narrow economic interests. It’s usually about the Money, no matter what p.r. cover story is floated. This has happened in many industries.

    It seems to me that the best approach to DIY regarding pipe tobacco, is to keep one’s efforts as small & low key as possible. If wanting to leverage one’s talents & resources, perhaps a few friends might also get involved. I know almost nothing about the details of growing & processing pipe tobacco. But, people have been doing so for a very long time. - - Like in beer brewing, the goal is not to construct a commercial scale producer, it’s to make something you would enjoy tasting.

    "You are remembered for the rules you break." - General Douglas MacArthur
    Posted 5 months ago #
  57. cosmicfolklore

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    it’s to make something you would enjoy tasting.

    Exactly!

    Posted 5 months ago #
  58. krizzose

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    And yet another thread that 1) makes me happy I started cellaring McC blends just soon enough to get a modest stash, and 2) keeps me motivated to buy my favorite currently available blends in amounts I can afford.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  59. georged

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    They did not close the doors due to lack of interest, but rather because of the loss of traditional tobacco aging techniques and, consequently, the unavailability of the high-quality leaf that defined their products.

    I talked to Mike at some length just last night. 40+ years of back-breaking physical labor is what brought the company to an end. Everything else you might hear from the grapevine just confirmed that the decision was the right one.

    In that case, you might ask, why did HE keep loading the machines, shifting the press contents, running the cutters, and all the rest? Because mistakes in that business have a massive domino effect, there's no rewind button, and hired help couldn't be counted on solidly enough to let 'em take the wheel. Not for a perfectionist like him, anyway.

    Dogs live such short lives... and spend most it waiting for us to come home
    Posted 5 months ago #
  60. chasingembers

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    Let's all have some Christmas Cheer.....too soon?

    It's never too soon.

    Posted 5 months ago #
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    foursidedtriangle

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    I am with you on this. Worse still there are matches for the most irrelevant tobaccos, but none for FMC - a best selling tobacco and universally acclaimed.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  62. chasingembers

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    FMC - a best selling tobacco and universally acclaimed.

    I wouldn't go that far. I would have to agree with Jim's two star rating. I finished a tin, but only grudgingly though.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  63. cajomu

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    While I don't have any statistics to back it up, I believe that pipe smoking is a pastime with no future. None of my children or their friends smoke, and the most of the young people that do smoke where I live are into "vaping." I don't know any other pipe smokers younger than forty and, among the professional classes in this country at least, pipe smoking is a rarity. The fact that Big Tobacco has little financial interest catering to pipe smokers, combined with the ever increasing efforts of our governments to stamp out the use of tobacco, leads me to believe that pipe tobacco may very well be unavailable commercially in another decade or two.

    So, IMO, instead of bemoaning the fact that some of our favorite blends are no longer available, we should be thankful that there is still so much quality leaf to be had.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  64. User has not uploaded an avatar

    foursidedtriangle

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    As far as smoking it is dependant on country, in some it is taboo in others it is cooler than a fridge. There will be a time when there is no tobacco produced probably but not in my lifetime.

    Posted 4 months ago #

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