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Go fund me for a carver??

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  1. User has not uploaded an avatar

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    Saw a prominent carver asking for money to fund equipment for carving pipes to sell? I would say sell more pipes, the rest will take care of itself.

    Work, don't ask for a handout. #lab.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  2. delkhouri

    delkhouri

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    I know Bill Shalosky formerly of the Smokers Haven group started a kickstarter a while back. Due to health concerns and some other factors he had to quit smokers haven and he was trying to get funding to buy equipment and set up a shop. He wasn't fully funded when it was canceled but I do not know why it was canceled.

    Here is a link to the thread on it:

    http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/bill-shaloskys-kickstarter

    "I believe that many who find that 'nothing happens' when they sit down, or kneel down, to a book of devotion, would find that the heart sings unbidden while they are working their way through a tough bit of theology with a pipe in their teeth and a pencil in their hand"
    ~ C.S. Lewis
    Posted 3 years ago #
  3. dochudson

    dochudson

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    Again?

    I Enjoy Aromatics
    I Enjoy Peterson Pipes
    Posted 3 years ago #
  4. mso489

    mso489

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    All kinds of people ask for funding for all kinds of reasons. It's a new phenom ... not that new, but just getting more general. I think the ethics and acceptability are still blurry, between simple panhandling with no accountability for how the money is actually used, to more discipline. We still have people who haven't figured out you don't stand in line at the drug store and declaim your cell phone conversation to the entire store, so I guess kickstart will take some time to "get real." I don't know the carver; maybe he has real need, but how would someone with money to give or invest know? I've heard some great stories in the Walmart parking lot, but I don't believe one of them.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  5. andrew

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    No

    Posted 3 years ago #
  6. mortonbriar

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    I find the online funding phenomenon quite interesting (not going to make a joke about homeless people being able to work from home). Most people in my age group (30s) are 'struggling' financially to some extent, I could personally come up with a different project or struggle to request help with on a monthly basis but it just does not quite feel like the right way to go about things, for me.

    Isaac

    I don't really care if the cup is half full or half empty, I just want something to sip on.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  7. fnord

    fnord

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    Mortonbriar:

    Where I come from we call that being a man: taking care of yourself, your family, doing what's right.

    More bills than available cash? Go work an extra-hours gig until you get a better grip on a livable budget or something better comes along.

    Always glad to see another member of the tribe who doesn't walk around with his hand out.

    Fnord

    It ain't the way I wanted it! I can handle things! I'm smart! Not like everybody says - like dumb - I'm smart and I want respect!
    Fredo Corleone
    Posted 3 years ago #
  8. beerandbaccy

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    Investors on a kickstarter usually get something in return. The risk is if the business is a failure then the investor won't get anything!
    It would make sense if a an investment over $100 gets a basic pipe, $250 gets a better pipe etc.

    Then you are asking for a genuine investment, having to do something in return rather than just asking for a handout.

    "I'd rather be a failure at something I love than a success at something I hate"- George Burns
    Posted 3 years ago #
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    Anonymous

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    Briarlab, charges for the use of the equipment already for carvers. So now, give them money, so they can continue? ?? Doesn't make any sense.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  10. huntertrw

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    If the subject of this thread is the new facility in Indianapolis, Indiana, then there is a feature article (BriarLab - Pipe Workshop, School, & Community) about them on the homepage of pipesmagazine.com. The second-to-last and last paragraphs of that article mention that BriarLab's owners have established an indiegogo campaign to purchase a laser-engraving machine and software to drive it. It also mentions that they are offering pequisites for donations.

    Love Me, Love My Pipe
    Posted 3 years ago #
  11. cosmicfolklore

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    We had a local stained glass artist and single dad who is very popular here and doing well business-wise get hit by a car in front of his shop. He started one of those because even an artist doing well isn't going to be rich, and with limits to what basic insurance covers he was quickly in debt of thousands. As a city we all pulled together and helped take care of him and his downs syndrome daughter. The push was on Facebook, and he constantly got snarky posts telling him to get a job. Personally, I don't judge. You never know what brings a man to ask for money. I just either give or not. My vote is with my wallet, and I'm not sure what drives people to get all bent out of shape, jealousy? But, I don't get as offended by someone asking as people who troll FB and post hateful crap, when they don't understand a situation. People were even making fun of his daughter online. Evil pricks!

    Of course, this post isn't as bad as all that, but it's just a step away. It's not like a beggar following you into a store. It's much easier to ignore if you don't want to pay.

    Luckily, my town stepped up and helped him. He's on his feet now, and all is well for him and his family. I'm damned proud of my town, and how we helped this guy. He is a retired Marine, and I give my town a big BOOYAH!

    Michael
    Posted 3 years ago #
  12. mranglophile

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    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/briarlab-better-equipment-better-pipes#/story

    Doesn't look like begging to me, they are offering "perks" for all donations, everything from a hat to a commission pipe. I personally don't see the issue with offering services/merchandise for cash. Normally when I buy a pipe or any other item I have no idea what the funds are used for, here at least the tell yo up front what they want and why.

    Saw a prominent carver asking for money to fund equipment for carving pipes to sell? I

    From what I read they want the laser engraver so new pipe makers don't need to buy custom stamps, doesn't sound selfish to me.

    Michael - Poulsb, WA

    Pipes are not like cars. A Chevy cannot drive like a Mercedes, but the lowly Stanwell can smoke like the lofty Chonowitsch, even though the latter far exceeds the Stanwell in beauty, grain, and craftsmanship. It is the briar and not the brand. There is no place for elitism among pipe smokers. - Fred Hanna
    Posted 3 years ago #
  13. zack24

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    I'm assuming you guys are talking about Briar Lab. Their campaign is just about perfect- good incentives, and a specific goal in mind, and good marketing on social media. Here's the link if you haven't seen it- https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/briarlab-better-equipment-better-pipes#/story .

    For full time pipemakers, it's a major struggle trying to keep the door open. In the past month alone, I've seen a very well known high-end US carver take a full time job, and another guy who chucked it in and sold all his equipment. The guys at Briar Lab are providing a center stocked with equipment and talent that will help develop US carvers- the craft will be the better for it in the long run. Nothing but kudos from me- and if I'm ever in the area would certainly pay for a day of bench space with the group...

    Posted 3 years ago #
  14. cosmicfolklore

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    Well, there you go then. Sometimes I feel like everyone is walking around looking for things with which to get offended. We seem to be a generation of thin skins, both side of the philosophical spectrum.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  15. tarak

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    I do feel there's a difference between a gofundme for someone's personal hobby they are trying to grow, and someone trying to start a larger project that benefits the whole hobby and community.

    I agree, these projects are used a little too quickly (and I'm 32, so I'm not "the old guy" picking on another generation). For instance, I just saw a guy starting one for his dog's vet bills. I happen to know this guy- young, still in college, no money and was recently displaying pictures of his large new tattoo that spans both his collar bones....it was hard not to say "Don't get a dog until you can afford it moron".

    That said, there's been some interesting realizations of income vs. expenses lately. For instance, I recently read a comparison of Ivy League education in 1970 vs. now. In 1970, the average student needed to work 2.5 hours per day to pay their way through college. Today, the same student would need to work 17 hours a day.

    Another example: At this age, I make probably 2-3 times what my father made in yearly income. However, in 1991 they paid $300 in medical bills after the birth of my brother. In 2014, I paid $3000+ for the delivery of my daughter (an uncomplicated delivery with no drugs, no surgery, no prolonged stays). I also pay much more for my health premiums.

    Just food for thought.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  16. davet

    davet

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    Don't get a dog until you can afford it moron

    A young guy in our Jeep club posted that he was looking for recyclables to pay for getting his dog fixed. I messaged him that I had a truck load of cans and bottles he could have and arranged to meat him. He never bothered to show up, forty bucks in my pocket. Makes a little more than minimum wage, but has a forty thousand dollar Jeep with bald tires he can't afford to replace, no priorities.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  17. tarak

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    Then again, we bought a 3000 square foot house because we got such a great price, and now we can't afford to replace the horrible condition carpet because the bills just keep coming.

    Wonder how much carpet money I can raise!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  18. drezz01

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    The crowdfunding platform is an interesting one. When it started off it largely revolved around pre-selling items to afford to buy the equipment and tooling required to produce the end product. Supporters were effectively investing in the company with the return on their investment coming in the form of the end product. The main crowdfunding platforms are Kickstarter and indiegogo.

    It got a little weird when Zach Braff, a successful actor, crowdfunded a movie production.

    gofundme campaigns differ from crowdfunding as they are (should?) typically asking for donations, not investments, for a non-commercial venture: though this isn't always the case. At any rate, it is up to the individual to decide whether they want to support the effort or not so I think it's fine.

    Applying crowdfunding to pipemaking is a fair venture, I'd say. Presell some pipes or merchandise to afford the machinery to fulfill those orders. The artisinal component of it muddies the waters slightly, however. It's not a manufactured product like the Pebble Smartwatch where the 'kickstarter editions' only vary from the full production runs by an extra engraving indicating your support. I would be concerned that the pipes produced for the early supporters may be rushed or differ in quality.

    All in all, I trust Briarlabs (if that is who we are talking about) would want to produce good work to promote their endeavour and I don't think that they are nefarious in this funding campaign. Also, it's the potential supporters decision whether to invest the money or not.

    If we aren't talking about Briarlabs, and it's some Joe Blow who has carved one pipe kit and wants to quit his consultant job and start making pipes for a living ... well, I wouldn't be supporting them...

    Posted 3 years ago #
  19. tarak

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    +1drezz01

    Posted 3 years ago #
  20. daimyo

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    Crowd funding is an awesome way to raise business capitol, especially for a non traditional business that a bank may balk at loaning on. That said, there are supposed to be rewards for supporters. As long as there are, then it is no asking for a handout in my opinion. If one is really sick or on the down, I don't see asking for help when needed as a bad thing. Pulling yourself up is great but there is nothing wrong with admitting when you've reached that point. Just my two cents, I was a little too hasty to speak last time this came up.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  21. tarak

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    I have 3 friends starting a brewery in a downtown location. They have "founders club" memberships like many places do....For something like $150 or $250 you get exclusive shirts, discounted drinks, founders-only nights before opening, a growler, etc. Helps fund some up front launch costs, build a dedicated customer base, builds marketing (shirts, etc), and has a return for the investor in tangible and non-tangible gifts.

    That's not a new business model....is it really that different than an online crowd funding with rewards?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  22. cosmicfolklore

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    I've supported a few endeavors that did not offer rewards, kickbacks or returns. If you want to see something happen for your community, why not. We had one to support helping a local digital cooperative get started, where locals could send 3D files to a cooperative owned CNC cutter or 3D printer for a small fee. It is up and running, and it has brought new high tech crafters and hobbyists into the area. Another was used to get a retail space opened up where local crafters could have another venue for selling their wares. We in the community saw value in getting these things in our town, so we gave them some money, asking nothing in return. Banks aren't exactly lining up to loan money to crafters and artists, so...

    The pipe community is the same type of thing. If you want to see new pipemakers getting access to these things, then give. If not, just keep moving along. IMO.

    If you want to judge and disparage the attempts of others, because this offends you... then you'll probably get judged also. Glass houses and throwing stones and all that.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  23. captainprophesy

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    @Fnord

    Where I come from we call that being a man: taking care of yourself, your family, doing what's right.

    hmm... I think we come from the same place.

    I carry a gun... because a cop is too heavy!
    Posted 3 years ago #
  24. seacaptain

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    My vote is with my wallet, and I'm not sure what drives people to get all bent out of shape, jealousy?

    More likely cynicism born from seeing people like the "single mom" at the checkout line who didn't have enough money to pay for diapers. Some kind soul bought them for her. 5 minutes later she was at the exchange counter getting a cash refund.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  25. captainprophesy

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    @seacaptain... Or like the "single mother" at the checkout line paying with an EBT card and then getting into a brand new of the year Cadillac out in the parking lot.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  26. edgreen

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    It's worked well for Maria Schneider. She has been able to establish and continue a career writing for and leading a big band (not so easy these days). Of course, most people today expect music to be free, making a really rough time for musicians. The only way to succeed is to tour relentlessly, almost impossibly expensive with larger ensembles. Charities have also benefited from Kickstarters. There is also a similar one for teachers to present needs and match with donors. As a teacher who spent close to $1000 of my own meager earnings each year, I can definitely see the use.

    Tobacco's a musician.And in a pipe delighteth;It descends in a close,Through the organ of the nose, With a relish that inviteth.
    Barten Holiday
    Posted 3 years ago #
  27. warren

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    Bona fide charities are one thing. Begging for dollars is another. I might give a beggar a sandwich or pair of shoes. I might give moneys to a worthy cause. No moneys will I give to an unknown from the internet. If I saw a plea which piqued my interest, I would do my due diligence.

    As a rule, donations to charities are reserved local organizations of which I know some of the board members or directors and can research where exactly my moneys go. The Salvation Army is one of a handful of such charities, out of town based, which are exceptions to my rule.

    A man without a shillelagh is a man without an expedient.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  28. pylorns

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    The Briarlab gofundme is great, good perks for good prices. Previous pipemaker gofundme or kickstarters were actually a violation of kickstarters rules because there were no perks, just asking for money.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  29. settersbrace

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    I'm thinking of taking my dog and guitar down to the local major 4 way intersection and holding up a sign advertising a GoFundMe page. So much easier than running in and out of traffic to collect filthy paper money.
    I need a drink

    De gustibus et cloribus non disputandum.
    'There is no arguing about tastes and colours.'
    Posted 3 years ago #
  30. cosmicfolklore

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    Settersbrace, just hold up a sign with your QVC code for the gofundme, and then all they have to do is scan it with their iPhone and donate on the go.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  31. reniaeats

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    So I'll take a deep breath before I write this and settle down...

    Yes, is there a lot of crap in crowdfunding? Absolutely.

    To the patron beware.

    HOWEVER, and it's a big one...

    Americans need to get on the 1,000+ year old bandwagon on art patronage. I don't know of a pipe maker who's made millions making pipes, in recent history. Most, even the most talented ones, are just trying to eek out a decent living. The concept of providing monetary support, beyond buying a piece, has been around forever. In fact, we wouldn't know about the likes of Michelangelo, Picasso and Thoreau without it. Supporting an artist's work often goes beyond actually buying what they make. The profit made for most artisan makers is pretty slim. Platforms like GoFundMe and Kickstarter do help to democratize the playing field in other fields, so why not in pipe making?

    Donating to a carefully-chosen crowdsourced campaign isn't charity. It's art patronage and that's something we could all benefit from doing more of if we want a vibrant and interesting marketplace.

    Renia
    Posted 3 years ago #
  32. carytobacco

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    Great point. I'm going to go donate even though they've already reached their target.

    I'm not a pipemaker but if I were, the perks they were offering for pipemakers seemed pretty amazing. For the rest of us, the regular perks were pretty good too.



    PipeAndLeaf.com
    Posted 3 years ago #
  33. smokinfireman

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    I remember as a young child getting out of the truck at the supermarket with Grandpa, who is an ex-policeman, and a lady coming up to us with a mason jar asking for money because "she needed gas money because her transmission was out". Grandpa's witty response: " I'll call the police department and they can get you a wrecker". Oddly enough, her transmission magically started working and she had enough gas to move on down the highway to pick out her next swindling location. To this day I can't go to the store without laughing at that memory. Nice goi'n Pawpaw!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  34. User has not uploaded an avatar

    briarlab

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    A friend of the lab just turned me on to this post.

    Here's our $.02, for what it's worth:

    Kickstarter is great for funding projects that have not been done yet, and need that money to do it. "Help me pay a factory to produce my product! Pre-buy the product here, and when I make it, you get one!" is usually the routine. Great for books, music albums, 3D printed gizmos, video games, etc. I have a few great books, one great card game (Cards Against Humanity!!) and cool music from Kickstarter campaigns I've contributed to. Brilliant for artists.

    GoFundMe is great for charities and other "needy" individuals to raise funds for something where the donors get nothing in return other than warm fuzzy feeling of helping out. "We have to renovate our house to accommodate my kid's new wheelchair and Medicaid doesn't pay for ramps and wide doorways!" might be an example. The idea is that if everyone you know gave $5, little Billy would have his ramps. It's the modern version of the paint-can-on-the-gas-station-counter. Brilliant for people who have needs and don't have the time or know-how to start a charity.

    Indiegogo is great for successful individual and existing business to ramp up some business to fund a new endeavor, side project, or anything that doesn't fit the Kickstarter model of "Raise funds to make this one thing." "Perks" is the term used by indiegogo to describe the goods that contributors get in return for their contribution. Pricing on perks are determined by the campaign founder and can vary from (a very money-grabbing, IMHO) "Give me $75 for this crappy sticker," to "Give me $10 for 25# of our really good South American beef jerky!" (a fabulous real deal that I contributed for last year.... mmm jerky)

    Guess which indiegogo model is more successful?

    When contributors get MORE THAN what they're paying for, everybody wins. The contributor gets something cool at a discount, plus the warm fuzzy feeling of helping someone else AND they confidence of knowing what the company or individual is actually using that money for. The company or individual gets an influx of liquid cash without having to pay exorbitant bank financing rates to do whatever it was they said they were going to do. Smart campaign founders also know that if they overfund, it is wise to send off extra "thank you" goods to their backers and detail out exactly what those extra funds are being used for.

    So... assuming for a moment that the OP meant Briarlab when he tagged his post #lab (and he mentioned us by name in his followup comment soon after) we'd like to say this:

    Briarlab is not using GoFundMe. Briarlab is using Indiegogo.

    Briarlab is not "asking for a handout." Briarlab is advertising and selling physical objects and experiences at a discount from normal pricing to make some fast cash. Most retailers would call this "Having A Sale."

    Briarlab is VERY grateful to our contributors, the people who have read our story (thank you @Zack24 for already posting the link), and the terrific articles we've read on this forum, other forums and other print materials... We are most grateful to the collectors and carvers who understand that we are improving the pipe carving community. We love you guys and can't wait to share with you our stories of what we are doing and how we did it. You've moved our calendar up, helped us help carvers faster, and you rock hardcore.

    TL/DR
    We're having a sale on our stuff and used a crowdfunding campaign to spread the word. We don't see how that's a problem.

    Cheers!
    -BLHQ

    Posted 3 years ago #
  35. brewshooter

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    We don't see how that's a problem.

    Hard to see how it would be. This thread kind of got all over the place in commentary about asking for a handout. What you are doing seems perfectly legit. I've backed a number of Kickstarter and IndieGoGo projects over the years. Good Luck!

    Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
    -C. S. Lewis, English essayist & juvenile novelist (1898 - 1963)
    Posted 3 years ago #
  36. misterlowercase

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    Was on the fence about this.

    Really wanted a Linder tusk tamper.

    At first they were only smooth,
    now a blasted version is available.

    I only looked again at the IndieGoGo thing due to this thread.

    Thanks for reminding me about this crucial enterprise.

    This thread swayed me and prompted to go ahead and get one,
    just moments ago,
    adding a small additional $10.

    I'm stoked and can't wait to get my paws on it.

    Thanks briarlab!

    Godspeed!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  37. cosmicfolklore

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    It blows my mind how easily people's minds get blown... especially over things that aren't even communicated correctly, LOL.

    "That sounds like he wants something. Something for free. He's panhandling. Bum. I'm offended! Bring out the tar and feathers."

    Have I mentioned that I am so glad to know all of the people who have chosen NOT to get offended at anything today? You guys are the best!!!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  38. georged

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    It blows my mind how easily people's minds get blown... especially over things that aren't even communicated correctly, LOL.

    "That sounds like he wants something. Something for free. He's panhandling. Bum. I'm offended! Bring out the tar and feathers."

    Have I mentioned that I am so glad to know all of the people who have chosen NOT to get offended at anything today? You guys are the best!!!

    I'm sorry, Cosmic, I know you mean well, but I'm afraid that I find your determined unwillingness to be spuriously offended by SOMETHING to be offensive. It's the 21st century and whining and wingeing is no longer considered a tool of losers and the lazy, it's how shit gets DONE. Squeaky wheels get the grease, remember? So get with the program and improve your attitude with some chronic complaining, OK?

    Dogs live such short lives... and spend most it waiting for us to come home
    Posted 3 years ago #
  39. reniaeats

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    Love the response from Briar Lab so much that I just went and pledged!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  40. cosmicfolklore

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    So get with the program and improve your attitude with some chronic complaining, OK?

    I think I can learn. I want to learn. "Ohhhh, other people are why I am having such a bad day. Other people are the cause of all of my problems..." Was that good? Was it, was it? I'll try harder.

    Posted 3 years ago #
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    briarlab

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    Joined: Sep 2015
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    Just wanted to pop on and say Thank You again to our supporters! As of this morning, we hit our "stretch goal" of $8500, which means all contributors of $50 or more get a Gift Pack of additional goods for free. FWIW, there are a few days left in our sale. We're humbled by the awesome support we have seen from the community overall. We're excited to share our success with our supporters.

    With gratitude,
    -BLHQ

    Posted 3 years ago #
  42. misterlowercase

    misterlowercase

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    As of this morning, we hit our "stretch goal" of $8500, which means all contributors of $50 or more get a Gift Pack of additional goods for free.

    That's friggin' awesome!


    I checked out the website yesterday too and was stoked to see such a full shop of fine pipes!
    http://www.briarlab.com/pages/shop-pipes

    Good stuff guys!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  43. mrbigglesworth

    Lee

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    I need someone to fund my P.A.D. Unfortunately, I just don't have enough money to buy all the pipes I want.

    "I don’t want any of your statistics; I took your whole batch and lit my pipe with it." - Mark Twain
    Posted 3 years ago #
  44. newbroom

    newbroom

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    I think those guys who call you for contributions to the Police Benevolent Society about 4 times a year would get better results if they used a byte of Sarah McLaughlin music just before they announce that they're 'with the police department'.
    I know I personally support at least 3 homeless dogs as a result of the ASPCA campaign.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  45. disinformatique

    The Pipe Monk

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    Nothing wrong in crowd funding. You get something back when you pariticipate. We the pipe smokers have a reputation of helping each other out, why not a pipe maker?

    Chris

    Albert Einstein was once quoted as saying, “I believe that pipe smoking contributes to a somewhat calm and objective judgment in all human affairs.” One of the reasons behind this statement is that pipe smoking is meant to be a slow leisurely activity. It takes patience to smoke a pipe. Unlike cigarettes and cigars, there is a certain amount of technique to smoking a pipe. Where cigars and cigarettes can just be picked up, lit and puffed on, pipes require the development of a technique in order to get the best smoking experience.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  46. okiescout

    okiescout

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    It is hard to see need and not meet it with a heartfelt response. I think unless someone has unlimited income they should try and be aware of where or what their money is going to. To me it is an American right to support who you wish, but there will always be those who are willing to prey on those of soft heart. It is up to the giver to ascertain whether the gift is going to a true need.

    More likely cynicism born from seeing people like the "single mom" at the checkout line who didn't have enough money to pay for diapers. Some kind soul bought them for her. 5 minutes later she was at the exchange counter getting a cash refund.

    I believe a case like this should not dampen our desire to be of help to the truly needy. Panhandlers aside, folks like the young women will ultimately pay for their deceit, this knowledge is my thought when I find myself involved as an observer to a similar event.

    "Work as if you were to live a hundred years. Pray as if you were to die tomorrow."
    Benjamin Franklin
    Posted 3 years ago #

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