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mau1

Lifer
Jan 5, 2018
1,124
837
Ontario, Canada
From what I understand, A. Oppenheimer & Co. bought GBD in 1902. I'm curious, does anyone know when they stopped stamping AO on their silver ferrules? Do we know when the use of ferrule's was discontinued? At the time of the merger with Comoys?

I'm assuming of course that the collars were always silver and not nickel.
Thanks

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,432
11,341
Maryland
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Great question. None of my silver hallmarked GBD's from the 1930's have the AO stamp (all three have GBD & MR&Co).

Very little is written about that level of detail for GBD pipes, sad, now probably lost to time.

 

jguss

Lifer
Jul 7, 2013
2,477
6,450
I think, but am not sure, that the AO started to disappear from the GBD silver bands in the early twenties

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,432
11,341
Maryland
postimg.cc
Here you go, the full story & Pix. Two '37's, one 1950, all with London,England COM's.
https://rebornpipes.com/2017/12/01/1937-gbd-chubby-rhodesian-r9239-restored/

https://rebornpipes.com/2016/06/11/1937-gbd-bent-billiard/

https://rebornpipes.com/2018/08/15/vintage-smoking-pipe-1950-gbd-9242/

 

mau1

Lifer
Jan 5, 2018
1,124
837
Ontario, Canada
My question about your MR&Co. pipes being French arose from what I had read in Pipedia.
" Marechal Ruchon & Cie. was a company owned by Auguste Marechal and Ferdinand Ruchon ("& Cie" is the french equivalent of "& Co") which owned the GBD brand from the end of the 19th century until 1902 when they sold Marechal, Ruchon & Cie. to Oppenheimer Pipe, which in turn changed the name of the company to Marechal, Ruchon & Co., Ltd.. Upon the creation of Cadogan, however, the brand was no more, remembered only in the name of the GBD Marcee pipes made until just after the Second World War."
So your 1950's pipe shows this particular stamping was used on more than just the GBD Marcee pipes. Interesting.

 

jguss

Lifer
Jul 7, 2013
2,477
6,450
mau,
pipedia is a truly great resource. scott thile is to be honored for his immense achievement, as are all the individuals who have contributed content. the website remains a work in progress, though, and riddled with incomplete or inaccurate statements. these generally get identified and corrected by many contributors as time goes by. it should go without saying that it will never be "complete" or 100% accurate.
the marechal ruchon question you raise about the persistence of the company's name is a case in point.
in the first place i'm not sure that marechal was ever a "brand' in the sense that we generally mean when talking about pipes (if i was home now i could consult my library and perhaps address this question). marechal was a company that owned and manufactured pipes under the gbd brand. i'm not sure that it ever made pipes under the marechal marque. in any case if what is meant is the survival in any form of references to marechal, then here's a quick experiment you could try: if you have the patience for a little firsthand digging, go to worthpoint.com and do a search for gbd hallmarked pipes. you'll come up with over 200 relevant listings (i.e. gbd hallmarked pipes offered for sale over the last dozen years or so; some of the listings will of course be duplicates). many of the hits won't have adequate descriptions or photos to settle the question, but a number will. this is how i was able to say that AO appears on gbd silver bands through at least the beginning of the 1920s but apparently not thereafter. you can do a similar analysis addressing the marechal issue. i think you'll find that even a cursory examination shows that mr&c continued to be stamped on gbd silver bands at least until the 1950s. only a paucity of data enables us to set a proper end date.
i'll also note in passing that the pipedia reference to cadogan is misleading, and founded on faulty information. cadogan was formed in stages, the first and most important taking place on july 24 1928. on that date the main parties reached and executed a deal: the adler family contributed oppenheimer pipes, marechal ruchon, h. perkins, and their u.s. and canadian entities; the salmon family contributed civic, loewe, and la bruyere; the deguingands kicked in their uk and french businesses. later that year reiss premiere joined in, and early in 1929 the comoy/chapuis families came aboard. in return for contributing the equity of their various businesses, the families each received equity (mostly preferred, with a tranche of ordinary a shares and a sprinkling of ordinary b shares) in the new holding company. not all animals in the barnyard are equal; in this case the salmon and adler families were the 800 pound gorillas and remained that way for decades, until john adler bought the salmons out in (as i recall) the sixties.
the point is that marechal ruchon (in the form of mr&c hallmarks) continued to be used for decades after the cadogan merger.
best rgds,

jon

 

mau1

Lifer
Jan 5, 2018
1,124
837
Ontario, Canada
Jon,
Thanks for taking the time to provide such a detailed synopsis. I am in agreement with your view of Pipedia. It's a work-in-progress that we are fortunate to have. With regards to MR&Co. my inquiry was general in nature but you have provided a excellent source for comparing pipes (worthpoint.com) which I will look at in more depth when I have time. Your insight as to the merger was fascinating. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Mau

 
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