G&H Twists-- made of VA, or Burley/KY?

beastinview · Apr 29, 2016

I often use websites like tobaccoreviews.com for info on the contents of a certain tobacco. I find it helps me to develop my palate... how can I ever get a feel for what a certain variety of tobacco tastes like (burley, VA, KY, perique, etc.) if I don't even know I'm smoking it?
That said, I've noticed some discrepancies in how the Gawith, Hoggarth & Co. twists are listed on pipesandcigars.com, smokingpipes.com, and tobaccoreviews.com.
Many sites explain that Brown Irish X and Black Irish X are the same twist, with the black just being stoved longer.
Similarly, many sites explain that the flavored brown twists (maple, rum, sweet whiskey, and coconut being the most common) are simply the Brown Irish X with a little topping.
I'm clear on all that, but the strange thing is that for many of these ropes, I can find them alternately listed as being completely Virginia, or rather being just Burley and Kentucky.
Does anyone know for sure what these ropes are made of? Are they VA or, Burley/KY?
For reference, tobaccoreviews has Rum Twist listed twice.

http://www.tobaccoreviews.com/blend/9145/gawith-hoggarth-co-sweet-rum-twist - "Virginia"

http://www.tobaccoreviews.com/blend/1837/gawith-hoggarth-co-rum-twist-unsliced-rope "Burley, Kentucky"
Black Irish X - Description says it is the same ingredients Brown Irish X, but stoved more. It lists the ingredients as Virginia.

http://www.tobaccoreviews.com/blend/552/gawith-hoggarth-co-black-irish-x-unsliced
Brown Irish X - Description says that it is "made with the same ingredients as the Black Irish X" but "without any additional processing"--yet the ingredients are listed as "Burley, Kentucky".

http://www.tobaccoreviews.com/blend/558/gawith-hoggarth-co-brown-irish-x

bonehed · Apr 29, 2016

Anyone can edit those entries, so they are by no means definitive. I tried writing G&H with the same inquiry, but got no response.

Perhaps you should pick up some blending components to get a feel for some vareities.

beastinview · Apr 29, 2016

Anyone can edit those entries, so they are by no means definitive. I tried writing G&H with the same inquiry, but got no response.

Perhaps you should pick up some blending components to get a feel for some vareities.

Thanks. I knew much of the content was user-generated, but wasn't sure if the top portions that listed ingredients were. I do have blends of pure burley, pure VA, etc., so I can of course develop my palate in that way, but I'm still curious as to what's in the G&H ropes. :D
Still, even on pipesandcigars, which is not user generated, there is significant variance.
Coconut Twist is listed as Cavendish (I didn't even know a rope could be Cavendish? Isn't Cavendish pressed into cakes/flakes?)

http://www.pipesandcigars.com/pipe-tobacco/72855/gawith-hoggarth-co-sweet-coconut-twist/#p-118192

The Cherry Twist is listed as a Virginia. Also, the claim is repeated that it is merely a topped Brown Irish X; "Black Cherry Twist has the robust strength of Brown Irish X, because they're identical in components other than the addition of a black cherry flavoring."

http://www.pipesandcigars.com/pipe-tobacco/72842/gawith-hoggarth-co-black-cherry-twist/#p-118149

Similarly, the Rum twist is listed as being the same components as Brown Irish X, but made of Burley and Dark Fired Kentucky.

http://www.pipesandcigars.com/pipe-tobacco/76955/gawith-hoggarth-co-rum-twist/#p-118194
The one constant seems to be that all of these are the same rope to begin with, but go through different processes (stoving, topping) to produce the final result. Since I'm a fan of this rope, I'm just curious as to what the original components are. My guess would be VAs and Dark Fired Kentucky, since that what Samuel Gawith makes their brown twists from.
I'll try writing to G&H but I've already bothered them with on curious inquiry and I haven't yet received a response.

deathmetal · Apr 29, 2016

yet the ingredients are listed as "Burley, Kentucky".

I think they probably mean Virginia, Kentucky (which is usually a Burley) instead.
That's one of the classic English rope recipes.

cosmicfolklore · Apr 29, 2016

There are strains of dark Virginias that are stronger than most burleys. By flavor, I am pretty sure the twists are mostly made up of these dark Virginias, but they may have a little burley added, but I'm pretty sure it's not Kentucky. I think most things get labeled as Kentucky out of a lack of knowledge of names of other strong burleys. The cavendish process is a cooking process for tobaccos that doesn't necessarily include pressing. It could, I guess, but it's not necessary.

pitchfork · Apr 29, 2016

I've smoked plenty of the brown ropes and there's definitely no dark fired Kentucky in them.

deathmetal · Apr 29, 2016

By flavor, I am pretty sure the twists are mostly made up of these dark Virginias, but they may have a little burley added, but I'm pretty sure it's not Kentucky.

From memory, this sounds right to me. Virginias processed in "that GH way" with a padding of Burleys. Makes for a killer smoke.

beastinview · Apr 29, 2016

Cool! Thanks for the input, guys.

bigpond · Apr 30, 2016

Keep in mind GH relies heavily on African leaf, old terminology and professional secrecy. This is a bit confounding as there are some substantial differences in the same leaf when planted in different locales. Terrior is as much a factor in tobacco as it is in wine, I think. Additionally, GH like SG, build upon a master blend (a brown VA in both cases) to create many of their blends. I would suspect the descriptions that come directly from GH are more likely to be accurate than a user supplied list as found on TR.

cosmicfolklore · Apr 30, 2016

...almost. The orinoco strains that the African Virginias have evolved from is the dark virginia, and when I plant that dark Virginia seed here in the US South, it is still the same strong virginia that evolved in that African soil and sun. I'm not exactly sure how it has worked, but the changes made to the seed stock is not fragile enough to come unwound so easily. It's a Father Mendal and the green pea sort of thing.

pitchfork · Apr 30, 2016

That's really interesting, cosmic. Maybe you've written about it elsewhere, but have you smoked any of that VA yet?

deathmetal · Apr 30, 2016

The orinoco strains that the African Virginias have evolved from is the dark virginia, and when I plant that dark Virginia seed here in the US South, it is still the same strong virginia that evolved in that African soil and sun.

This gives me hope. It's a future crop I'd like to produce, that and a strong Burley for flue and fire curing, then pressing into something tasty (and Nicotianous).

deathmetal · Apr 30, 2016

I would suspect the descriptions that come directly from GH are more likely to be accurate than a user supplied list as found on TR.

Good point. They also have zero incentive to lie...

beastinview · May 1, 2016

I would suspect the descriptions that come directly from GH are more likely to be accurate than a user supplied list as found on TR.

Where can I find such descriptions? I buy in bulk, so I haven't seen anything that comes on the tins, and the things I've seen online don't specify whether it's a Virginia, Burley, etc.

mso489 · May 1, 2016

Thank you for the helpful links. I would have guessed wrong on the Irish X black I've tried, but I see it is 100% Virginia. I'm sure I saw that when I ordered it, but its bravado reminds me more of burley than the sweet, light grassy aspect that I often get with Virginias. The different presentations and preparations of leaf can transform the experiences they deliver. Good thread. Good reminder.

deathmetal · May 1, 2016

Reduce the sugars in a Virginia, and you have something more like a Burley... although I often prefer the two together.

hawky454 · May 2, 2016

It's my understanding that the ropes are all the same they just come in different ring gauge sizes so they will taste different because of the proportions of the outer leaf vs. the inner leaf. I think you might find some answers here: Ropes&Twists it's a long video but very helpful.

cosmicfolklore · May 2, 2016

Maybe you've written about it elsewhere, but have you smoked any of that VA yet?

I have tasted the tobaccos from harvest to twisting. I have not tried any since I had sweated them out and then jarred them. I will wait one more year. But, in tasting the dark Virginia, even without sweating out all of the ammonia, I could still taste a hint of that quirkiness that Royal Yacht has going on. I am not blessed with the tongue to type gift that Jim has, but all I can say is that it is strong and I can tell it is the same leaf used in RY and can taste in Dark Flake unscented also. Like a cosmopolitan flavor. if that makes any sense.

jitterbugdude · May 2, 2016

It's a future crop I'd like to produce, that and a strong Burley for flue and fire curing,

Burley is not flue cured. The only reason tobaccos are flue cured is to set the sugar level in the leaf. Burley has none to begin with so it is not flue cured. Just for fun I did flue cure some Burley once and it tasted exactly like my air cured Burley.

cosmicfolklore · May 2, 2016

I'd like to try toasting burley. I bet a toasted Tennessee Red would go well as a filler in a VaBurPer twist.

G&H Twists-- made of VA, or Burley/KY?

Log in

SmokingPipes.com Updates

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

Site Sponsors

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

Part of the Furniture Now

Part of the Furniture Now

Part of the Furniture Now

Lifer

Lifer

Lifer

Lifer

Part of the Furniture Now

Lifer

Lifer

Lifer

Lifer

Lifer

Part of the Furniture Now

Lifer

Lifer

Lifer

Lifer

Part of the Furniture Now

Lifer