Full Virginia Flake and Tongue Bite?

thesinistral · Mar 7, 2016

I have finished about 5 bowls of FVF and it has helped me to see the joy of Virginias. I really enjoy the nuanced and changing flavors in FVF. BUT... i have smoked it rubbed and cubed and sipped it, and tried DGT but after every bowl my tongue has suffered some level of tongue bite. GLP Virginia Cream is the other one that is bitey to me.
Is that just my chemistry or does anyone have any other ideas? Maybe a different bowl size or shape?
Thanks!

texmexpipe · Mar 7, 2016

It could be that your not experiencing tongue bit as much as a burn of sorts. I've heard some express tongue bite as almost a cramp like feeling and others describe it as a bunch of needles on the tongue. I know that when I first started smoking flakes I often didn't dry them out properly. When I did this I would seemingly cook my tongue. Wet tobacco produces more steam which is what leads to this sort burn. I could be completely wrong, it happens often, but that's been my experience.
So try drying out those flakes! Also try a VA in a different cut to see if it really is bite.

tennsmoker · Mar 7, 2016

I have heard of some flake smokers who leave the tins in their autos in full sun to dry them out! I do not recommend this, but the best is to go slow. Slow your pace way, way down. Pipe smoking is to be enjoyed, not rushed.
I used to puff like a old-fashioned train engine. Not anymore. I enjoy my pipes, Of course, that could be I am getting older and everything has either fallen off or slowed down. Sip, like you would a fine wine.
I have rubbed out flakes, stuffed flakes, used the air method of packing, cube cut the flakes. I now think rubbing out the flakes in the palm of my hand is the best method. Don't get in a hurry has more meaning than one might think. It is mantra for pipe smokers.
Enjoy your FVF. It is great tobacco from one of the world's great tobacco mfgs.

derfargin · Mar 7, 2016

Don't think of it as "smoking" VA tobaccos, but more of "wisping" them. You only want wisps of smoke, any more and it's going to burn hotter and that'll transfer to your mouth.
Try the clench breathe smoking method, just clench the pipe and try to focus on doing other than smoking your pipe.

edgreen · Mar 7, 2016

I agree about the drying. SG, both St. James and FVF, are notoriously wet. Since you already altered your pace and pipe maybe try experimenting with drying time. And I agree about the wonderful flavors of FVF. I haven't found a pure virginia that produced such a complex of flavor. I just fold, twist/fold and stuff, though, and don't cut or rub. Maybe the density of the flake helps the bowl burn slower and cooler. Let us know if you find an answer for your enjoyment.

andrew · Mar 7, 2016

You're probably getting steam from smoking it too wet. However depending on how long you've been smoking, tongue bite is something that just kind of happens at first I find no matter how careful you are, after awhile it's kind of like building up a callous and unless you really scorch your mouth you'll be okay. I suggest taking a couple days off until your mouth feels better and then trying again. Also learning the art of sipping takes a long time, like what you think is sipping is usually still twice as much as you should be doing.

graydawn · Mar 7, 2016

I smoke mostly Virginias and occasionally will develop some tongue burning. More of a raw area on the tip. I believe that this has to do with the ph and perhaps the moisture but even with a dry tobacco I find my tongue to be sensitive. One solution is to direct the smoke stream either below or to the side of your mouth.

hawky454 · Mar 8, 2016

Yes, I find that for me, it is chemistry. Certain blends "burn" my tongue the second the smoke makes contact with it. It's long debated but you just have to make up your own mind. I have found that the active charcoal filters absolutely stop my tongue from being burned from the blends that tend to do so. If you have a filter pipe give it a shot and see how it works for you. It doesn't dilute the flavor one bit for me. Most blends that bite me I usually don't bother with but some are just too damn good to give up on.
Edit* Steam is not burning your tongue... It is no hotter that a fresh cup of coffee so there is much more involved than one steaming his tongue off. In fact, a cup of coffee reaches much higher temperatures than that from the steam produced by pipe smoke. Please dry your tobacco before you smoke it, though... A higher moisture content will dilute the flavors of your smoke, the dryer the better (to a certain extent) dry it until you think it's too dry, and then it's ready to smoke and not only will you have a drier smoke but the flavors will be more concentrated.

shutterbugg · Mar 8, 2016

I agree about drying. Pinch some together, if it sticks in a clump, it's too wet. It should fall apart but not be dry/crunchy. I smoke Dunhill Flake. Dunhill blends always seem to be the correct moisture level straight from the tin, no drying needed. To me that's the sign of a blender who knows their stuff and cares about quality.
As for VA Cream, it has always been the right moisture from the tin also, yet it still bites no matter now slow and wispy it is sipped. My solution is to mix it 2:1 with Lane Ltd BCA, a coarse-cut black cavendish. It completely eradicates VA Cream's bite without altering the taste or aroma perceptibly.

cigrmaster · Mar 8, 2016

If you dry FVF properly and smoke it slowly you will never get tongue burn. If you hot box your pipe one after another you will get tongue burn. Tongue bite is when your body chemistry doesn't like a certain type of leaf( most notably red virginia's) and your tongue will get a burning sensation the minute the smoke hits your tongue.
I smoke only flakes and FVF is the most finicky for me to get right. Sometimes it is the moisture level, sometimes it is the thickness of the flake( bulk is like beef jerkey) sometimes it is the wrong pipe( a group 4 conical bowl dublin works best for me) sometimes you have pissed off the pipe Gods and they will ruin your smoke. I had to experiment for a long time before I tamed this bitch. Forgot to add, I cube it into very small cubes, let it dry and then pack firmly to get a good consistent smoke.

blueeyedogre · Mar 8, 2016

Try smoking it with a soda as your drink. I find that some Virginias can be biters for me but it's cut way back if I'm sipping a Dr.Pepper while I'm enjoying it.

thesinistral · Mar 8, 2016

Great advice and information, gents. Thank you. I have smoked occasionally since 2003. I just didn't 'get' Virginias back then so I smoked mainly English blends with no bite issues (after my tongue got conditioned). I've only recently 'discovered' Virginias and been guilty of all of the above: Not dry enough, puff-puffing, careless packing, etc..... In any case, I will certainly keep at it and thanks to all. I will give updates as I learn.

graydawn · Mar 8, 2016

Haven't tried the national drink of Texas, Dr.Pepper, for tongue bite but OJ helps.

deathmetal · Mar 8, 2016

Sip, like you would a fine wine.

...especially with Virginias, because they're sweet and turn to acid like a grocery store cake in your stomach on a sunny Sunday.

andrew · Mar 8, 2016

Edit* Steam is not burning your tongue... It is no hotter that a fresh cup of coffee so there is much more involved than one steaming his tongue off. In fact, a cup of coffee reaches much higher temperatures than that from the steam produced by pipe smoke. Please dry your tobacco before you smoke it, though... A higher moisture content will dilute the flavors of your smoke, the dryer the better (to a certain extent) dry it until you think it's too dry, and then it's ready to smoke and not only will you have a drier smoke but the flavors will be more concentrated.

http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/put-that-in-your-pipe/keeping-your-cool/

Moisture content of the tobacco will also have an impact on heat issues. It’s the primary reason my own blends tend somewhat to the dry side. Also, moist tobacco compresses (and stays compressed) more easily, which can lead to overpacking. When you combine the more frequent puffing with additional water content, the result will be steam, and that is much more likely to burn your tongue than smoke. A lot of this type of difficulty can be avoided by allowing your tobacco to dry out a bit by taking a bowlful out of its package and allowing it to sit out on a piece of paper for 45 minutes to an hour before packing.

Seems like all of the pipe smoking experts agree that steam causes burns.

hawky454 · Mar 9, 2016

http://www.binsbergenpipes.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4&Itemid=6
Alkalinity and Tongue Bite
Every solution is either acidic or alkaline. (Alkaline is often called "base.") Acidity and alkalinity are measured in pH (potential of hydrogen). The pH scale goes from 0 to 14, with 0 the most acidic, 7 is neutral, and 14 the most alkaline. For example, the pH of stomach acid is 1, wine is 3.5, and water is 7.
When smoke from tobacco has a higher degree of alkalinity, it will produce painful irritation of the tongue, regardless of its temperature. A principal cause of alkaline smoke is a tobacco containing little or no sugar, such as Burley. Soil chemistry where the tobacco was grown can also influence the pH of the leaf. Virginias and other tobaccos with high sugar content generally produce an acidic smoke, which is easier on the mucous membranes and tongue. However, if combustion temperature goes too high, then the hydrocarbons (especially sugars) join with oxygen to form water and turn neutral, thus leaving the alkaline components to predominate in the smoke.
This simply means when this type of tongue bite occurs, it is the result of a chemical reaction; it has nothing to do with heat or the temperature of the smoke. Even if you were to freeze the smoke and make it ice cold, the high alkalinity could still produce a chemical irritation.
apparently we are talking about two different types of bite.

andrew · Mar 9, 2016

apparently we are talking about two different types of bite.

It's bite versus burn, some people can't smoke red va's, some people can't smoke perique etc. do to chemistry which you're talking about. I'm talking about actual burn. I burned my mouth quite a bit in the beginning from overpuffing, packing too tight, tobacco to moist. About the only time I've had actual bite is from PG laced blends, no matter how slow I puff it provides for an unpleasant experience. So yes we're talking about 2 different things. There's a few members such as cigarmaster who can't smoke red va's due to this chemistry thing, and some others who can't tolerate perique.

hawky454 · Mar 9, 2016

I guess I've just never experienced tongue burn then. Tongue bite can be horrible but the charcoal filters can rescue a blend that would have otherwise bitten me.

gtrhtr · Mar 9, 2016

Pure Virginia's seem to burn hotter than any other tobacco if aggressively smoked in my experience. I find them very enjoyable to smoke, particularly during the day, but they take some getting used too. The good news is that Va's, when at the right moisture level, burn like true champions.

shikano53 · Mar 10, 2016

+1 on the drying.

I've really enjoyed the Virginia side of tobaccos lately

Here are my favs
McCranies Red Ribbon

McClelland Dark Star

McClelland Black Woods Flake

McClelland No 24 Virginia

Full Virginia Flake and Tongue Bite?

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