Fill With Black Super Glue or Cut New Button?: Advice Please (pics)

pruss · Oct 16, 2013

Afternoon gang. I have a pipe, a Statesman Lovat, with a bit that has been chewed through by the previous owner.

It actually doesn't look too bad in this picture, but it's worse on the top and after cleaning up the stem, I have holes on both top and bottom of the stem just in front of the button.
As far as I can tell I have two options, both of which are new ground for me.
Option 1) Use black superglue (something I've never seen before, but I understand exists) and back fill the holes on top/bottom of bit. Then cut a new airway from button to line up with the existing draught hole in the stem.
Option 2) Cut the current button off, and shape a new button on the stem above the problem area.
I'd love to go with Option 1, but have never tried it and would love any tips/pointers or directions to examples of how this is done elsewhere on the web (I'm scouring Reborn Pipes for examples).
Option 2 would be interesting, but given that this is a saddle bit, I don't have a tonne of material to use to shape a new button.
Opinions? Thoughts? Advice?
I'd love to hear what you think.
Thanks,
-- Pat

zack24 · Oct 16, 2013

Never thought much about trying to salvage a stem- (I'd cut a new one), but you might take a fine file, use it aggressively on a non-usable stem to produce some vulcanite dust, and mix that with some high-temp epoxy to make a nice black paste. Smooth a thin layer on top and bottom and after it completely hardens after 24 hours, use some fine sandpaper to shape to final shape...

zack24 · Oct 16, 2013

Sam, There are a couple of ways to do it without a lathe, but their fiddly and picky and very difficult for mere mortals to get decent results with. The good news is you can pick up a little 6x18 Atlas pretty cheap or even a little Taig and do a fairly good job with minimum space requirements...or buy my 9x20 Grizzly this winter when I move up to a 12x36...

rcstan · Oct 16, 2013

You can cut the problem area and reshape with emory boards, 120, 220, 400 grit and then buff IF you have enough meat on the stem. Go slow.
I would not consider option 1 as it appears from the pictures the toothmark/puncture is right on the stem airway and you will ALWAYS have a hot spot there.

rcstan · Oct 16, 2013

Option 3 : clean up the stem and put a patch of black electrical tape over the affected area. You'll have a wounded, but functional pipe.

pruss · Oct 16, 2013

Thanks for the feedback folks.
Zack, I like the idea of repurposing vulcanite filings with epoxy. I might have to mess around with that. I also may hit you up with a PM for lathe advice. I'm hoping to expand my little pipe cave from resto only work into a place to mess around with carving. Right now I'm reading up as a lurker on the Pipe Makers Forum. Which is good, because I can't afford a metal lathe right now. ;-)
RCstan, I hear you. I don't think I have the meat to carve a new button. The nice thing about the electrical tape option is that if I stuff up Option 1 I can revert to the gaffer tape version.
-- Pat

drwatson · Oct 16, 2013

Time for a new stem! I dont know if I would want to be chewing on superglue

zekest · Oct 16, 2013

rcstan knows his stuff. I was told he is an expert at restoring Peterson Pipes.
From what little I know, always go the route of least destructive. That is, before you cut off any material, try to repair it first. If the repair is not optimum, and you plan to hack a bit off, use a cheap corncob pipe stem to practice on first.
Black epoxy glue can be purchased mail order from guitar and musical instrument repair web sites.

Steward-Mcdonald would be my first choice www.stewmac.com

citrine · Oct 16, 2013

I used the epoxy to repair a few of my estate pipes, works fine. However, finish is not perfect, repair works are visible. More suitable for own use, if for sale or for a perfectionist, it may not be suitable.

guhrillastile · Oct 16, 2013

New stem is really not hard if you have a lathe. To build from scratch without one can be done but would take you a while.
The basic stem styles are out there. PME has just about all the standards in stock. Then just file and hand sand to shape and finish on the buffer. It's much more forgiving than you think. They aren't expensive either.
If you did go to rebuild a new button.... Why not. Easy practice and might surprise yourself. You can cheat it a lil too by once you cut it clean above the damage. You can heat and build yourself up a thicker start. This way your not cutting so much off to get to thicker material.
Keep us posted with what you decide. And good luck. We know you have the mad skills.

ssjones · Oct 16, 2013

I've used the black super glue with great results.
That stem looks far too thin (as mentioned) to cut a new button. I'd try the super-glue route, no harm in trying, right?
For my British made pipes, saving the original logo stem is a pretty important detail, to me.

ghost · Oct 16, 2013

Pat- I order from Stewmac all the time for guitar parts, so I can look into getting us some of the glue on my next order if you want...however, I'll have to doublecheck with them to see if they'll actually send the glue across the border. I seem to recall there was a lot of products they don't ship by air, the glue may be one of them. (I was going to order shielding paint from them awhile back that was a no go...)

ssjones · Oct 17, 2013

Shipping one bottle is pricey, I wish I'd have advertised and double-up with someone.

ssjones · Oct 17, 2013

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Glues,_adhesives/Stewart-MacDonald_Super_Glues/Super_Glue.html
The #20 medium black is what I used.

pruss · Oct 17, 2013

Awesome. Thanks for the assist Al and Matt. Looking forward to giving this a try.
-- Pat

ejames · Oct 17, 2013

I use the Stew-Mac black CA glue with good results. The stem needs to be clean and oxidation free before making the repair. I usually bleach the stem,wash thoroughly with warm water and mild soap,then clean the area with 91% IA. I sometimes,depending on depth and size of the hole or toothmark, use a little activated charcoal powder. Some use vulcanite filings or sanding dust as a filler.

pruss · Oct 17, 2013

I sometimes,depending on depth and size of the hole or toothmark, use a little activated charcoal powder. Some use vulcanite filings or sanding dust as a filler.

In this process, would you fill the holes with filings/activated carbon and then apply the black CA glue? With epoxy, I assume one could mix/suspend the filings/carbon in the epoxy before application.... But I'm guessing the CA glue hardens up too quickly.
Am I reading between the lines properly here?
-- Pat

ejames · Oct 17, 2013

It can be tricky mixing any powder with the glue as it can set up rather quickly doing that. By it's self the glue is slow to dry and takes several applications to build up to the needed thickness. I usually sand or file to remove as much of the damage as possible. If the damage is in the center of stem in from of the button you can't take off much material-if any. If it's off to the side where the material is much thicker you can take off quite a bit,being careful to maintain the overall shape of the stem.

If I use the powder I apply the glue then sprinkle the powder over it,tap the stem against something to set it somewhat.Sometimes apply the powder a couple of times. Let it set overnight before working.

You can mix it but gotta be quick. Also doing that can create bubbles which are a PITA to fill.

Once you get it filled it can be sanded and buffed just as you would the rubber. The repairs are visible,if you look closely. The glue is not the same shade of black as the rubber,which really ain't black.

If you put filing or powder in the hole and add glue you must make sure you filler is saturated with the glue.It's best to do 2-3 applications to build it up.

bullbriar · Oct 17, 2013

I've used the charcoal powder with the black glue, and it worked great. After the mixture, I applied two coats of glue without the charcoal, and it filled/leveled fine. Before the glue sets up, shape with a sharp razor blade, the let dry, sand, buff and polish.

Best of luck.

ghost · Oct 17, 2013

Awesome tips, thanks everyone!

Fill With Black Super Glue or Cut New Button?: Advice Please (pics)

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