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Esoterica people

(195 posts)
  • Started 9 months ago by foursidedtriangle
  • Latest reply from brian64
  1. woodsroad

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    I don't hunt for Esoterica anymore. I did, for a little while, but not in the serious way that some of my friends do. Now, it just seems to fall into my lap. I've bought two bags each of Stonerhaven and Penzass in the past year without so much as whimpering and pleading...much.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  2. chasingembers

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    Same. The last call I made for Dunbar the owner asked if I wanted a bag of Stonehaven too. I just went for the Dunbar.

    Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you.
    -Edward Teach
    Posted 9 months ago #
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    foursidedtriangle

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    The cause of the shortage is because the product is underpriced and that is not debatable. Besides the scalpers. a regular person is tempted to buy just because it is underpriced even if they wont smoke it.

    Like I said the tales of how much you have or how easy it is for "you" to get is irrelevant to finding a long term solution for everyone.

    If we are in a situation that only people who will smoke it buy it, there is much less of a shortage. It sounds like many people here already have enough and when it is apparent to them that buying any more is a waste of their money, there will be less of a shortage.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  4. chasingembers

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    You imply shortage where there is none. Online shops are a tiny percentage of all tobacco available. There are still many bags of Esoterica available to those willing to look for it.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  5. chasingembers

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    Like I said the tales of how much you have or how easy it is for "you" to get is irrelevant to finding a long term solution for everyone.

    Several of us just gave you the solution. You're complaining that five or six online stores run out too quickly when there are hundreds of tobacconists with no online presence that still have it in stock. The phone numbers that I call are all on the tobacco store locator found on this site. What you are saying is that you would rather pay double than to spend a few hours calling around to pay less. If you've never smoked any of it, you're really going to be disappointed by it after paying prices like you are suggesting.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  6. cosmicfolklore

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    Yes, occasionally, when I go to The Briary, Skip will ask me as I am checking out, "We still have a few bags of Penzance left, you want any?"
    Chasingembers is right. Just because a few of the major online sources runs out quickly, doesn't mean that everywhere does. They don't linger on the shelves like Peterson tins, but they are out there. On several occasions, in running down the last of something like McClellands, I will just search through Google and call all of the B&Ms within driving distance and score some impossible finds. If it is that you want it the easiest way possible, then you probably won't ever get hold of any. But, if you really want it, you can make it happen.

    Michael
    Posted 9 months ago #
  7. cosmicfolklore

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    The cause of the shortage is because the product is underpriced and that is not debatable.

    Malarchy, the cause of the shortages is self-imposed by the manufacturer. It was designed from the beginning to be a boutique blend. It was never meant to be the McDonalds of pipe tobaccos. They don't want to be. They could easily step up production and meet demands, but then they would lose that small blenders appeal.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  8. chasingembers

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    Even at double the price those wishing to sell it will buy it in hopes of multiplying their investment. I've seen bags of both Penzance and Stonehaven go for over $300 on eBay.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  9. woodsroad

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    The cause of the shortage is because the product is underpriced and that is not debatable.

    Ah, Warning Sign Number Two (or was it Three?)
    Any time someone tries to control the conversation by telling you that you that you can't contest their statement, you know that they have a very weak argument.

    Besides the scalpers. a regular person is tempted to buy just because it is underpriced even if they wont smoke it.

    So how is that working for for other "underpriced (sp)" brands? Seen any Molto Dolce hoarding lately?

    Like I said the tales of how much you have or how easy it is for "you" to get is irrelevant to finding a long term solution for everyone.

    Now let's look at this statement. You are saying that actual evidence that contradicts your position isn't valid because you yourself have had a different experience. That's called anecdotal evidence (on your part), and it's being contradicted by a fairly wide and deep data pool. You can get Esoterica. You can buy it at MSRP. You just aren't going about it properly.

    Further, let's look at the statement about a "long term solution for everyone". That's just more fallacy fomented on Facebook, the idea that "the community" can alter the course of events over which that have little or no control, simply by saying so. Unfortunately, your community represents a tiny fraction of the customer base. Maybe you and the few dozen other people who spin these threads on FB into a Utopian spider's web "agree" on a solution, but if you want to label something as irrelevant, that would be the poster child.

    If we are in a situation that only people who will smoke it buy it, there is much less of a shortage.
    And somehow, you plan on enforcing this, or just getting everyone to agree to this idea that if you don't smoke it, you can't buy it? Tell me that there is more to it than that.

    It sounds like many people here already have enough and when it is apparent to them that buying any more is a waste of their money, there will be less of a shortage.
    The failure here to understand the world around you, and basic human behavior is overwhelming. I hoarded Esoterica because I could. I will never smoke all that I have. I will die before it is all consumed and my daughter will throw what's left into the garbage. That's called Liberty. That I can do with the fruits of my labor as I wish. And it's a beautiful thing.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  10. cosmicfolklore

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    Yes, the beauty of having the means to hoard is that we don't necessarily do it to smoke the stuff ourselves, but to prevent other people from doing it.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  11. cosmicfolklore

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  12. warren

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    As Cosmic wrote: "It was designed from the beginning to be a boutique blend. It was never meant to be the McDonalds of pipe tobaccos." Emphasis mine.

    You just don't want it bad enough! Perhaps Esoterica has set the bar too high. Perhaps you are not meant to savor the blend.

    Do not lose heart though, this thread is grand entertainment on a dark and dreary day up here. I encourage you to keep on keeping on.

    A man without a shillelagh is a man without an expedient.
    Posted 9 months ago #
  13. wolflarsen

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    If you've never smoked any of it, you're really going to be disappointed...

    That right there is the elephant in the room.
    It's just another pipe tobacco and doesn't deliver the orgasmic experience that you would expect from something so widely and intensely coveted. I got my hands on a 2 tins each of Penzance and Stonehaven by calling a B&M on the other side of the country and was greatly disappointed when I finally got to try these legendary blends. I guess they were okay, but certainly nothing special. I honestly don't see what the big deal is whatsoever. In my opinion Plum Pudding SR blows Penzance out of the water in the Balkan genre and as for Stonehaven … I just don't get it. I'll smoke a bowl every once in a while just to see if I can find the fireworks and always end up wishing that I had packed up something else.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  14. woodsroad

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    I'll smoke a bowl every once in a while just to see if I can find the fireworks and always end up wishing that I had packed up something else.
    Heretic!

    Posted 9 months ago #
  15. wolflarsen

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    Heretic!

    It is what it is and that's my honest experience with it.
    Does Stonehaven need age to make it shine? I've only smoked it fairly fresh.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  16. woodsroad

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    I've smoked it both fresh and aged 10 years, and all stops in between. It certainly gets better with age, but I never seldom hear angels sing or see the Hand of God descend from the heavens while smoking it. It isn't terribly consistent batch-to-batch. Lots of variation in the leaf used. So, some Stonehaven that I've had, I can honestly say, has been the best Va flake that I've ever had. Other batches are quite good, but on par with a multitude of other similar products.

    Far too many pipe smokers enjoy the label more than the blend.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  17. cosmicfolklore

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    See, the problem is that enjoying it requires absolute perfection in your smoking. If you puff too fast or too slow, you miss it. If you are expecting a face-slapping flavorama, then maybe stick to Lane and Sutliff products.

    This is all the reason why Esoterica doesn't want to flood the market. If you could just click and order the stuff at will, it really wouldn't be a big deal at all. But, as long as someone is out there stomping their feet and sobbing over, "WHY, o lord, cannot I never try this blend!!!" then,it stays mysterious, mystical, and it crawls into your cold lonely heart and aches for it.

    All in all, it's just tobacco. A tobacco that requires that you be an expert to enjoy it. So, if you aren't an expert, then why would you even waste your money on it? Give it to me.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  18. woodsroad

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    Now, I'm no expert, but.....

    Posted 9 months ago #
  19. cohibajoe

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    Enjoying this thread...Esoterica reminds me of when Pappy Van Winkle was sitting on the shelfs being passed by for other Brands...then 6-7yrs ago...BAM!!!...Now you have Truck Chasers and Prices that are Insane.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  20. wolflarsen

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    Ah ha! I always suspected that the problem was me and not the tobacco. Oh well … I guess it just wasn't meant to be.

    Anyway … the psychology of acquisition is fascinating. At least now that I've tried it I no longer drool at the mention of it's name like Pavlov's dog. Thank goodness there are so many other readily available and fine tobaccos out there.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  21. cosmicfolklore

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    You all are totally missing the amazingness of Esotericas. It's a little known fact that everyone that works for Esoterica is blind and have no feet. Yep, they just sort of flop around in the dark. That is what makes it amazing.
    Only a true expert can taste that in the blend. See, a true expert can sense the mood of the guy who blended the batch he is smoking. It's self-evident, right there in the pipe. And, when I smoke Penzance, I am sampling a record of those who were involved in the process. I can easily tell they were blind, it's obvious. The subtler parts of the blend are that they were setting down... and not standing up and can't stand up takes a much more sensitive palate. It's the absence of any shoe aromas that gives it away, ha ha.

    Well, we could debate this all day. But, it's an inalienable fact that experts love Esotericas more. Can't even come close. And, one day you might get as good as me, ha ha, then we can share a bowl of Penzance. Just don't slobber all over the stem. If you are a slobberer, then we can't share a bowl. You'll just have to bring your own pipe.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  22. sablebrush52

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    The cause of the shortage is because the product is underpriced and that is not debatable.

    Everything is debatable. You are not the oracle. I'm going to respond, not for you, because your post shows that you have a closed mind, but for others who would like to stop beating their heads against a rock and buy some of this to enjoy.

    It's not about pricing, it's about capacity.
    Raising the price will not increase capacity.
    Raising the price will make the product less obtainable for many.

    Germain's is a small boutique operation producing a wide variety of blends. They have a handful of staff. Much of their equipment is ancient and I do mean ancient, and they use very traditional methods in making their blends, methods that take time to do their work. It's a small pipeline. The product of that small pipeline are the blends that so many like. Change the pipeline and the results change, the flavors of the blends are lost.

    Until 2007 you could walk into a B&M and likely find Esoterica products available. It was one brand among many. Then Germain's stopped shipping for an extended period. By the time shipments started up again, the panic had set in. Shipments remained erratic. People started hoarding. The stuff disappeared from the shelves of online dealers in seconds. But at B&M's there was stock on the shelves for days and even weeks.

    The Psychopathy of Scarcity had made a beachhead. People figured that something that was hard to find MUST be amazing and better than anything else. It's illogical, but people are illogical.

    Online stores remain a small fraction of the total amount that gets distributed. Shipments from Germain's have become more regular since late 2016. Online stores still sell out in seconds. B&M's still have stock sitting. I

    If you want to find Esoterica brands become a regular customer of a B&M that carries them. If you are a cherry picker, expect to be shunned.

    Besides the scalpers. a regular person is tempted to buy just because it is underpriced even if they wont smoke it.

    This is quite the assumption, and an illogical one at that. But logic isn't playing a huge role here. I don't buy any blend because it's cheap. I buy it because I'm curious about trying it. How many of you buy anything just because it's cheap? Raise your hands so that I can count them. OK, some of you are idiots, but not many of you.

    Like I said the tales of how much you have or how easy it is for "you" to get is irrelevant to finding a long term solution for everyone.

    Well, irrelevant for you because you're not looking for a solution, you're looking for YOUR solution. But keep thinking that it's irrelevant. More for everyone else. BTW, I picked up a phone and called one of the B&M's that I buy from and ordered a pound of Dunbar for a friend. Took all of five minutes. How much did you purchase?

    If we are in a situation that only people who will smoke it buy it, there is much less of a shortage.

    We're pretty much in that situation now. The few hundred bags that show up on the secondary market each year are a tiny, let me repeat, tiny, percentage of the total amount in distribution.

    The issue is capacity, and that is limited. But as many of us have found, getting off one's ass and making an effort will result in finding it. Even so, it will be in short supply because Germain's is a small boutique operation that produces a wide variety of blends, of which, the Esoterica line is only a part.

    For those of you who desire to obtain some hard to find blends, start building a customer relationship with a B&M. A real customer relationship. It doesn't matter whether that B&M is across the street or across the continent.

    Here's one final bit to chew on. B&M's are a vital part of the supply train. Yes they cost more because their costs are more. Guess what? There is no free ride. But if you want to have access to a wide variety of blends, including hard to find blends, you would be smart to support them. Buy what they have in stock, not just unobtainium. Someday they may be the only access you have, and if you have not helped them to survive you will have screwed yourself.

    For myself, I don't give a damn. I've built up a cellar over many years so if the whole business goes kaput, if Germain's, or any other blender decides to call it a day, it won't affect me. But for those of you who are in a different position, protect your B&M's. Support them and they will support you.

    Cast a wide net and you will catch some fish. Stop whining. Stop moaning. Stop fantasizing about being the czar of distribution. Do what we have done. Get off your ass and use the phone. Build a regular customer relationship with a B&M that carries what you are looking for.

    Or, you can come up with poorly reasoned hair brained schemes that only screw everyone. Your choice.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 9 months ago #
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    foursidedtriangle

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    Unfortunately here B/Ms charge $60 for regular over the counter stuff plus the $30 shipping which makes online the only option. Here is why price increase will work. If a person has $200 to spend a month and they bought 10 units before they will buy less then 10 if a price is doubled. Same for the scalpers they have less certainty to sell at a higher price.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  24. sablebrush52

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    It's just another pipe tobacco and doesn't deliver the orgasmic experience that you would expect from something so widely and intensely coveted. I got my hands on a 2 tins each of Penzance and Stonehaven by calling a B&M on the other side of the country and was greatly disappointed when I finally got to try these legendary blends.

    I remember trying Penzance in 2006. Then, it wasn't the ideé fixe i has since become. I didn't like it. I thought it was a badly balanced blend, but I'm super picky about English blends. I jarred it and gave it 6 or 7 years, then tried it again. Still didn't like it. I have a few bags of it, but I don't buy it. Actually, I either share it or give it away.

    Stonehaven is a PITA. It either tastes like cardboard or it offers a very rich experience. It took me a while to figure out a moisture level that unlocks it for me, but as has been said earlier, batches vary. A little goes a long way. I only smoke it a few times a year when I'm wanting that particular flavor profile.

    Most of the Esoterica blends I've tried have left me cold. I get that they're well made blends of a certain style. But it's not a style that I enjoy. However, there are a couple of Esoterica blends that I really love, and those I've stocked.

    With Penzance and Stonehaven I have to believe that there is some lemming effect going on.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  25. bluto

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    It’s nice to see people name blends they enjoy more than the difficult to find ones. I have Presbyterian and bengal and others and was able to lock down a few Samuel gawith blends before it got thin.

    Thanks dudes.

    “listen: there’s a hell
    of a good universe next door; let’s go”
    Posted 9 months ago #
  26. sablebrush52

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    Unfortunately here B/Ms charge $60 for regular over the counter stuff plus the $30 shipping which makes online the only option. Here is why price increase will work. If a person has $200 to spend a month and they bought 10 units before they will buy less then 10 if a price is doubled. Same for the scalpers they have less certainty to sell at a higher price.

    OK so the reason for your suggestion is that you're screwed, so why shouldn't everyone else be? As for scalpers, if they can make any kind of profit, they're going to sell what they can.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  27. paulie66scandinavian

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    Speaking of the availability of standard J.Germain's tobaccoes,I'm noticing this very brand is quite easy to obtain anywhere in England,and its priced like any other tobacco in England(read: expensive) and comes in pouch and bulk form.I don't know if the U.S based tobacconists sell this brand anymore.

    Paul The Scandinavian'
    Posted 9 months ago #
  28. cohibajoe

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    Unfortunately here B/Ms charge $60 for regular over the counter stuff plus the $30 shipping which makes online the only option. Here is why price increase will work. If a person has $200 to spend a month and they bought 10 units before they will buy less then 10 if a price is doubled. Same for the scalpers they have less certainty to sell at a higher price.

    We seems to be going in circles...Then Move to a different state which has lower state tobacco taxes and many B/M's. I live in NJ...Not much for Local B/M's by me..So I check a number a sites when (sometimes a thread here posts "Esoterica at xxx")...and if you check I do Post these...I seat all day in my underwear Web Crawling Tobacco sites to Post the Rewards of this Area51 Brand...There are Many fine and outstanding Blends out there...Explore.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  29. sablebrush52

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    Speaking of the availability of standard J.Germain's tobaccoes,I'm noticing this very brand is quite easy to obtain anywhere in England,and its priced like any other tobacco in England(read: expensive) and comes in pouch and bulk form.I don't know if the U.S based tobacconists sell this brand anymore.

    Some Germain's blends are available in the US, others are not. England has RDF. We have Stonehaven. Very similar, but not the same.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  30. danielplainview

    dave g

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    Make aromatics great again.
    Posted 9 months ago #
  31. brian64

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    What would Orville do?

    “Bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out.” – George Carlin
    Posted 9 months ago #
  32. balkisobrains

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    foursidedtriangle

    I am speaking on behalf of people who do not have access to it nor will ever have access to it at below ebay price.

    With the internet & the smartphone, & the fact that Esoterica & Germains have been much easier to get recently as compared to the past few years, there are no excuses.
    If they have access to it at Ebay prices, then presumably they have access to the rest of the internet as well.

    Posted 9 months ago #
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    aldecaker

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    "And, one day you might get as good as me, ha ha, then we can share a bowl of Penzance."

    This from a guy who can't even coax an orgasmic smoke from a corn cob full of Prince Albert!

    A man who serves his country is a patriot. A man who serves his government is an employee. The two are not always the same thing.
    Posted 9 months ago #
  34. woodsroad

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    Isn't that like coaxing a headache out of a bottle of MD 20/20?

    Posted 9 months ago #
  35. lawdawg

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    If you haven't experienced the immense pleasure of sitting on the edge of a creek with your best friend on a summer day with a cob of burley, a cheap American light beer, and a fishing rod in hand, then you haven't really lived

    Posted 9 months ago #
  36. warren

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    Same for the scalpers they have less certainty to sell at a higher price.

    I so dearly love convoluted logic. Sometimes it's the best kind.

    You are betting that demand will go down if the price goes up. Might be a very risky bet! If I were a scalper, I'd buy the same quantity, or more, and sell at a higher price. I might even reduce my profits and keep the price the same for a bit, then gently raise my price while ordering more product. You haven't even tried the blend and you're willing to pay more if you can find it, based solely on what you've read.

    Nothing you've suggested, will make the blend easier for you to score. You are just going to have to "suck it up" and do the work, just like all the others. Hopefully, you will find the blend to be satisfactory and worth the effort. If not ...c'est la vie!

    Posted 9 months ago #
  37. rmpeeps

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    If your girl is running with everybody in the neighborhood, find a new girl. Don’t stick with her just because she lives next door.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  38. techie

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    I've only been a pipe smoker for two months and by taking the advice of the experienced pipers here, I've already been able to obtain an 8oz bag of Margate, a tin of And So To Bed, and best of all, 3 ounces of 6 year aged Penzance. The funny thing is that I actually stopped looking for Esoterica, and they just happened to show up at the right time.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  39. npod

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    For my initial MBA project I thought about doing an in depth study of pipe tobacco as a theme. When I looked at Esoterica specifically it turned out to be so damn simple that it wouldn't pass for any serious contemplation. It is pure basic supply and demand economics. A ninth grader could understand the variables. High quality product, high demand, limited supply. On top of that, Germain and Arango don't even need to advertise, it's all urban legend and markets itself. Every internet board clammers about it, debates it, covets it, hates it. It's good name recognition and also scandal, fodder for the American market. And so it goes. It is a "status" symbol now. People "want" it. Again, classic economics.

    Neal
    Posted 9 months ago #
  40. warren

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    It's waaaaaay too late now. But, I bet if some poor soul had laid out the same problem, without the "woe is me" economic gobblydegook, if some member here would've just sent him some of the damned stuff to try. It's happened before.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  41. brian64

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    The best thing about this thread is Patrica Arquette's cleavage.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaRYfraX9gA

    Posted 9 months ago #
  42. craiginthecorn

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    Just to echo an earlier post, my recent trip to the UK seemed to confirm no shortage of Germain's, Rattray's, Gawith, et al. All at essentially the same price as any other pipe tobaccco in the UK, which is to say, high.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  43. cosmicfolklore

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    I just like that there are “Esoterica People.” I imagine them wearing their mylar suits and monicles. They definately wear monicles.

    Posted 9 months ago #
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    aldecaker

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    I more pictured goggles of some sort, but monocles work, too.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  45. woodsroad

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    I picture them smoking pipes, linking arms and singing a rousing rendition of “Esoterica People” to the tune of “Everyday People”.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  46. jpmcwjr

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    As I am fond of saying, "Different strokes for different folks...." And dooby dooby de doo.

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 9 months ago #
  47. sablebrush52

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    I picture them smoking pipes, linking arms and singing a rousing rendition of “Esoterica People” to the tune of “Everyday People”.

    Or maybe they're dressed in leathers and sing "Y...MCA!"

    Posted 9 months ago #
  48. chasingembers

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    Just to be an ass I just called the same tobacconist back earlier today and ordered the Stonehaven.

    Posted 9 months ago #
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    erhardt85

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    Jiminks is correct it wouldn't work. One simple fact that most people fail to recognize is that it's only a simple matter of supply and demand. The small supply, no matter if the price is 30 dollars or 80 dollars, dictates a high demand. In turn, high demand dictates yet a higher price. If such a price is reached that no after market buyer is willing to pay then the supply will stack and increase and the demand and price will fall to meet it. Yet it will never fall to the price we wish because eventually people will snag it p and the balance renewed. It's unfortunate but the price asked and paid on the aftermarket is indeed the correct price, as dictated by the constant demand. Esoterica raising the price actually hurts everyone because as jiminks stated the sellers will purchase it and set the price higher to see their profit, and the market price will shift higher. Or... In my opinion what will happen is even worse... The aftermarket diminishes due to decreased profits for the sellers, and therefore the chance to purchase it by normal buyers becomes diminished because their only hope of finding it is in said aftermarket. Finding it in online stores is next to impossible for most people, and stock at brick and mortar stores is often low or limited by design or due to scarcity. In my opinion, as long as Germain keeps the production low we should be happy that things are as they are... A chance at getting it cheap online or at the store, and if not then we can find it for increased price on the aftermarket. Not desirable, but better than not having it at all.
    In other words the price you see it at in the aftermarket is it's true value, and seeing Germain raise the price to such value would simply mean that it would be a lot harder to find for many people. That's my fifty cents.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  50. brian64

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    Just to be an ass I just called the same tobacconist back earlier today and ordered the Stonehaven.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN29X2HCKpU

    Posted 9 months ago #
  51. jaytex969

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    I sit all day in my underwear Web Crawling Tobacco sites to Post the Rewards of this Area51 Brand...

    Gunner, Black Frigate. Say "Hello" to my little friend!
    Posted 9 months ago #
  52. chasingembers

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    @Brian

    I accept that as high praise!

    Posted 9 months ago #
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    foursidedtriangle

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    Jiminks is correct it wouldn't work. One simple fact that most people fail to recognize is that it's only a simple matter of supply and demand. The small supply, no matter if the price is 30 dollars or 80 dollars, dictates a high demand. In turn, high demand dictates yet a higher price. If such a price is reached that no after market buyer is willing to pay then the supply will stack and increase and the demand and price will fall to meet it. Yet it will never fall to the price we wish because eventually people will snag it p and the balance renewed. It's unfortunate but the price asked and paid on the aftermarket is indeed the correct price, as dictated by the constant demand. Esoterica raising the price actually hurts everyone because as jiminks stated the sellers will purchase it and set the price higher to see their profit, and the market price will shift higher. Or... In my opinion what will happen is even worse... The aftermarket diminishes due to decreased profits for the sellers, and therefore the chance to purchase it by normal buyers becomes diminished because their only hope of finding it is in said aftermarket. Finding it in online stores is next to impossible for most people, and stock at brick and mortar stores is often low or limited by design or due to scarcity. In my opinion, as long as Germain keeps the production low we should be happy that things are as they are... A chance at getting it cheap online or at the store, and if not then we can find it for increased price on the aftermarket. Not desirable, but better than not having it at all.
    In other words the price you see it at in the aftermarket is it's true value, and seeing Germain raise the price to such value would simply mean that it would be a lot harder to find for many people. That's my fifty cents.

    That sounds like a legitimate counter argument. Thanks. I am not looking to buy from a third party by the way, not interested at the moment.

    I am saying it will work though because everyone's budget is limited and they will just buy another blend instead (like if a match is 10 times cheaper than esoterica they will buy the match).

    Posted 9 months ago #
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    erhardt85

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    @foursidedtriangle Same here. I'm not currently in the market for aftermarket esoterica. I've been considering it for special Latakia flake, medium, flake, brown flake, and stonehaven but not yet. I want to try my hand at brick and mortar or even sp.com more first. The Esoterica blends themselves are fairly unique in flavor, though I would argue they aren't the best in their respective categories of blends. I do love their Virginia's though. Dunbar, Dorchester, Brighton, Tilbury, and Cardiff all strike a chord with me. I've yet to find a virginia blend with a similar flavor. Their casing is unique. Personally, I find other blends too pleasurable to justify stocking up by means of aftermarket, but I would pay to try a blend. I just haven't yet. Special Latakia flake and medium flake continue to elude me even more than Penzance so maybe I'll have no choice soon haha.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  55. jpmcwjr

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    I am saying it will work though because everyone's budget is limited and they will just buy another blend instead (like if a match is 10 times cheaper than esoterica they will buy the match).

    If it's truly a match, I'd buy it if it were but 20% cheaper.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  56. woodsroad

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    That argument fails to recognize that people routinely pay $150 for some Esoterica blends. There’s an odd phenomenon wherein the higher the price, the more desirable the product. Not quite that simple, but you all know what I’m talking about.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  57. cosmicfolklore

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    There is a difference between... seeing a bunch of people putting these blends on ebay for $150-300, and seeing them actually sell. Just like guys putting a low end pipe on ebay for $1000. That doesn't mean it is selling for that price.
    I have to remind my wife of this all the time. She uses ebay prices to guide her in setting prices for selling her mother's antiques, and I am always pointing out that sometimes people will put higher prices, not expecting the thing to sell. Seeing a price and seeing it sell are different, very different.

    Now, do people actually pay $150 for a bag of Penzance... maybe... I am sure there are a few clunkheads out there. That is not a outrageous price, but "routinely"? When we see them pricing at $300 or more... they are just speculating, fishing deeper waters, where less fish live.

    $150, I could go in with my pipeclub friends and buy a bag, and everyone could at least try a bowl or two for like $5. But, I am not sure how many people are filling a closet at $150 a half pound.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  58. warren

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    I am saying it will work though because everyone's budget is limited

    Some people? Maybe "most everyone's" (I doubt it.) but certainly not "everyone's."

    Posted 9 months ago #
  59. haparnold

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    Some people? Maybe "most everyone's" (I doubt it.) but certainly not "everyone's."

    Are you saying that some people literally have an unlimited budget? Not to be the economist in the room, but that doesn't make a bit of sense to me.

    De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum
    Posted 9 months ago #
  60. cosmicfolklore

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    Some of us are constantly being told by accountants to spend more money on personal things. Not my accountant, but I have friends... apparently, there is a benefit to not being too frugal when you have money that you are trying to show as separate from your business.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  61. jpmcwjr

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    Are you saying that some people literally have an unlimited budget? Not to be the economist in the room, but that doesn't make a bit of sense to me.

    Few things are infinite, but if you have net disposable income of several million dollars annually, that'd meet my criterion for "unlimited budget".

    Posted 9 months ago #
  62. warren

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    Yes, that is what I'm saying. Not sure why that is so hard to believe.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  63. sablebrush52

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    And so, the quest for proof of intelligent life in the Universe goes on...

    Posted 9 months ago #
  64. lawdawg

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    That argument fails to recognize that people routinely pay $150 for some Esoterica blends. There’s an odd phenomenon wherein the higher the price, the more desirable the product. Not quite that simple, but you all know what I’m talking about.

    "Veblen Goods": Wikipedia - Veblen Goods

    The high price must mean its good!

    Posted 9 months ago #
  65. cosmicfolklore

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    Marketing has become so good that humans have had their "dominant species" legal status revoked, due to mass consumerism. Unbeknownst to many, amoebic dysentery now legally rules the planet.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  66. sablebrush52

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    The high price must mean its good!

    Yep. It's a corollary to the "If it's scarce it must be good!" theory of quality. Pricing is important. When I started out I kept prices for services pretty modest. I wanted to build up some credits, build the résumé, etc. I was getting some work, but wasn't frantically busy by any means. Then a producer on a show I'd completed gave me merry hell over my invoice. The reason? It was too low. He tripled my rate and told me to stay at that rate for a bit and then start increasing it. Sure enough, as soon as I started quoting that higher rate, business started flowing in.

    A lot of people are largely clueless. It becomes perception over knowledge, as in if it's scarce or expensive it must be good. Sure worked for Dunhill.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  67. bluto

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    That’s what Martha Stewart did , she couldn’t sell pies at the mall for 10 bucks , so she went back the next day and asked 25 dollars for each pie .

    Sold every thing she had.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  68. balkisobrains

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    You can set Ebay search to display sold items, and it looks like the Esoterica market is a little soft right now, because it's been easier to find this year.

    Posted 9 months ago #
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    erhardt85

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    Only the rarest Esoterica blends sell for 150 or above recently. For the most part. I never said it wouldn't sell for a higher price. Only that the price would balance to where it's supposed to be. Penzance and Stonehaven can fetch those prices but the others less so. Respectfully I have to 100% disagree with the statement that people want what is priced high. By that statement, W.O. Larsen's limited edition blend would be highly sought after at 1000 dollars per box. Instead some retailers had to reduce the price significantly to sell their stock. If Germain raised the price of Penzance 8 oz.bags to 300 dollars there would be a scarce aftermarket for their tobaccos. Actually I'm convinced it would remain in stock long enough to see it in stock. There is a price at which most people will refuse. Who sets that price matters not. We could talk at length about why Esoterica prices are so high whole similarly scarce blenda aren't. Absurd Hype, low supply, high quality, and unique flavor sums it up well i think. In that order.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  70. chasingembers

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    Absurd Hype-No doubt

    Low Supply-Only online

    High Quality-No more so than Mac Baren, Peterson, etc.

    Unique Flavor-Nothing that has no match or superior

    Posted 9 months ago #

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