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Esoterica

(91 posts)
  • Started 5 months ago by spartacus
  • Latest reply from sablebrush52
  1. spartacus

    spartacus

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    Being new to pipe smoking I have been trying as many blends as possible. I have even bought no longer produced stuff to see what it's like.

    I see all over eBay what I consider high prices for Esoterica. Is this no longer in production or just not available right now? Is the taste and quality so good that it is in high demand or is production on a limited basis?

    I love Latakia so I'm debating on paying the price to try Penzance and Margate. Is it worth it?

    Posted 5 months ago #
  2. crashthegrey

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    This is still made, but to such exacting standards that the quantities are limited, or at least that is what we are told as far as an explanation. Whether it is worth it is all up to you. Some swear by it, some swear it is all hype.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  3. jpmcwjr

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    Impossible to say for you. For me, yes, in limited ways. I'll acquire Margate regularly at reasonable price, and very occasionally, Penzance.

    But there are also tons of good English blends out there, and many have a nice dose of Latakia.

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 5 months ago #
  4. georgebmcclelland

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    The best thing to do if you want to try Esoterica is to be patient. Get on notification lists on internet retailers, contact your local B&M and ask them if they receive orders, and wait. In my opinion, most Esoterica is worth the wait and the $5.00 per ounce, but nothing is worth supporting or encouraging the slimy people who sell tobacco on Ebay for ridiculous amounts of money.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  5. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    The Esoterica blends are all made by Germain's, a family owned blender with nearly 200 years of experience, one of the few remaining British blenders, and considered by connoisseurs to be one of the finest high grade blenders in the business. They're a boutique small batch operation producing a wide range of popular blends with venerable equipment in the older tradition of aging in-house so that they are ready to consume upon release. This results in scarcity, which in turn enhances their perceived desirability.

    The blends as shipped from Germain's are not more expensive than other blends. It's the mark ups from middlemen, retailers, and predatory scalpers, that result in the prices people sometimes decide to pay.

    I'm not a fan of Penzance, but others love it. I have some Margate that I haven't gotten around to trying. I'm a big fan of Dorchester and Dunbar, both Va/Pers, and to a lesser extent, Stonehaven and Tilbury.

    The problem isn't finding it, it's finding it at a straight retail price. Online stores sell out in nanoseconds, so your best bet is to find B&M's with no Internet presence that carry Esoterica products, create a good customer relationship with them, and buy your Esoterica tobaccos when they show up. That's that I do and I pay retail, not scalper prices. At this point I'm fully cellared with the Esoterica blends that I like, so the hunt is over.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 5 months ago #
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    jzbdano

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    but nothing is worth supporting or encouraging the slimy people who sell tobacco on Ebay for ridiculous amounts of money.

    Its an auction, wouldn't the buyers be the slime bags for pushing the prices well past what you deem reasonable?

    Posted 5 months ago #
  7. crashthegrey

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    wouldn't the buyers be the slime bags for pushing the prices well past what you deem reasonable
    No.

    Posted 5 months ago #
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    jeff540

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    +1 Sable. Several Germain offerings have been my second favorite to McClelland VAs - Brighton being my current go-to blend. Wanting to try Cardiff, Kingsbridge, and Peacehaven. I have my "order" placed at local B&M, who usually gets a smattering of Esoterica when it's available to the wholesalers.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  9. jpmcwjr

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    My hat is off to those who sell or trade unobtainium and/or aged tins here at their acquisition cost or nearly so. Not so much for those seeking market prices.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  10. sablebrush52

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    Its an auction, wouldn't the buyers be the slime bags for pushing the prices well past what you deem reasonable?

    Well, I wouldn't call the buyers slime bags, just determined or desperate or just able to afford it. But they are responsible for the high prices, not the sellers. In almost any open market it's the buyers who actually set the price. To the extent that the stratospheric prices are wounding buyers, it's self-inflicted. Don't like the price of something? Don't buy it.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  11. lucky695

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    ^ +1 What sable said... twice. I just lucked out and got a tin of Penzance for retail at a local shop while on a business trip. Nice score and worth the drive over...

    "A pipe gives a wise man time to think and a fool something to stick in his mouth." - C.S. Lewis
    Posted 5 months ago #
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    jzbdano

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    My comment was off the cuff, I don't think the buyers nor sellers are slime bags. Every Eso thread gets tarnished by these kind of comments and I am sorry for blurting out earlier.

    As far as Esoterica tobaccos go, try them, they are well made and chances are you will find at least one you can really enjoy. Quite a few of the VA blends have what seems to be a blueberry or fruit topping that I like every once in a while. None of their blends have made it into my regular rotation yet. Their Latakia blends are good compared to other blends with Latakia that I've tried but I don't smoke Latakia very often. I'm still working through 8oz bags I bought a few years ago so supply isn't the issue for me.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  13. npod

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    Neal
    Posted 5 months ago #
  14. 3rdguy

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    Interesting timing as several of their blends have been up at the major sites today.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  15. beefeater33

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    people who sell tobacco on Ebay for ridiculous amounts of money.
    What's a "ridiculous amount of money" to you may just be a mere pittance for others........... If you can't afford it or don't want to buy it, then don't bid.........seems simple to me..........

    "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dream..."
    Willy Wonka
    Posted 5 months ago #
  16. georgebmcclelland

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    To me the disgust is not at all about affordability, it comes from the fact that these are people who buy up all the tobacco they can solely in order to re-sell it at far more than the price which they paid, just to make money off of the people who they cut out of the original purchase. None of that extra money goes back to the manufacturers, and people who had nothing to do with the creation of the tobacco are making truckloads of money with little to no effort.

    I'm not concerned with attaining any Esoterica at all. When it shows up at my B&M, sure, I'll get some. It's great tobacco, and I love what I hear and read about their manufacturing process and style in general, but there's tons of other great tobacco out there as well. What it comes down to, for me, with these Ebay tobacco grifters is just a matter of principle and morality, and in my mind it's just a pretty slimy thing to be doing.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  17. lawdawg

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    Those who buy hard-to-get tobacco specifically for the purpose of reselling it create an artificial scarcity which drives up the price. Supply and demand. They are middle men who add no value, and they are essentially parasitical in their tobacco transactions. There is plenty of justification for the many pipe smokers that don't like tobacco flippers.

    Esoterica, in particular, is so hyped that there are many people that hunt for any Esoterica blend they can get their hands on, even if it isn't a style of blend they would usually smoke. I've smoked a little Penzance, and it was excellent, but to me not worth the effort to find, and certainly not worth the ebay prices.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  18. lucky695

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    +1 lawdawg. I lucked out and imma smoke that schtuff!

    Posted 5 months ago #
  19. kola

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    I must confess I am a guilty slime bag. One, I love Penz and pay big for it. And two, if I could get my hands on some of it at retail price, I'd flip it for profit and sleep quite well at night.

    To OP, stay active on pipe forums, make some friends - as often, other guys will gift you Esoterica samples to try and other hard-to-get blends.

    I treat people the way they treat me. It's that simple.
    Posted 5 months ago #
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    foursidedtriangle

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    Its an auction, wouldn't the buyers be the slime bags for pushing the prices well past what you deem reasonable?

    You are right of course. Esoterica attracts a lot of scalpers who also place phantom bids to up the price. They are definitely slime bags.

    Also I generally dislike people who side with these scalpers and defend them. Before there was a bulk sale on Eso and it was not sold out for 24 hours pointing out that high demand is purely due to the resellers market.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  21. sablebrush52

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    Before there was a bulk sale on Eso and it was not sold out for 24 hours pointing out that high demand is purely due to the resellers market.

    Before when? The panic buying began long before the secondary market for "vintage" tobaccos became a thing. In 2007 Germain's missed a few shipments and people went nuts hoarding Penzance. Nobody gave two farts about the other Esotericas and you could pick up "old" tins of "legendary" tobacco for bupkis.

    Buyers always set the prices, except in a monopolized market. Sorry, but true.

    Anyone who has a real issue with eBay listings can simply report them, since all of these transactions are in violation of eBay regulations and are technically illegal. Really, go ahead.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  22. hoosierpipeguy

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    Jesse nailed it. Same with almost any product. Don't blame the sellers, blame the buyers if you feel like you have to blame anyone. The reality is, the people complaining contribute as well by constantly starting these threads and giving Esoterica more exposure. If you're frustrated, angry or whatever about the prices of Esoterica products, the best thing you can is never, ever mention the name.

    I like several of their blends. But I also wouldn't lose any sleep or shed a tear if they never shipped again. I'd much rather see McClelland come back and Esoterica go away if somehow that tradeoff could be made.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  23. ashdigger

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    What a collection of manure. I really don't understand people crying out about blends that are hard to find or how much they cost. Its the way it goes.

    Ubi Ignis Est?
    Posted 5 months ago #
  24. georgebmcclelland

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    Haha, this is the part when I slowly start to back away from the commotion I've helped to create... If I make it to the doors I can chain them behind me and escape!

    Posted 5 months ago #
  25. georgebmcclelland

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    On a slightly more serious note, though, I'm realizing that the folks who have been here a while have probably seen these kind of threads so many times, I can see how it would get annoying and tiresome. My bad.

    Posted 5 months ago #
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    oldgeezersmoker

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    I like several of their blends. But I also wouldn't lose any sleep or shed a tear if they never shipped again. I'd much rather see McClelland come back and Esoterica go away if somehow that tradeoff could be made.

    You win the thread.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  27. hawky454

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    They have some stellar blends to my tastes and if you’re patient and alert you can still often find them for decent retail prices, I personally wouldn’t pay those higher prices eBay is asking for. Their VA blends are ga ga ga great! Love me some Margate and Pembroke too, never was too crazy about Penzance but I do enjoy it from time to time and I do understand why it has such a following and of course the obscurity really adds to its hype. IMO if you pay those high prices there’s no where to go but to dissapointment unless of course you’ve tried it before and you’re willing to pay $200 to $300 for half a pound but don’t pay those prices just to try it for the first time.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  28. chasingembers

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    I'd much rather see McClelland come back and Esoterica go away if somehow that tradeoff could be made.

    I like Pembroke and Dunbar and get them at retail prices from B&Ms, but if losing them could bring back McClelland, then oh, yes.

    Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you.
    -Edward Teach
    Posted 5 months ago #
  29. techie

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    I went through a similar curiosity phase and eventually landed a bag of Margate and some aged Penzance. I'm glad I got to try them but I wouldn't go out of my way to get them again. I like the Penzance but don't care for the Margate. But I sure won't pay more than the normal retail price for Penzance, if I happen to come upon a tin. If I don't, I'll never give it another thought.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  30. lawdawg

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    I like several of their blends. But I also wouldn't lose any sleep or shed a tear if they never shipped again. I'd much rather see McClelland come back and Esoterica go away if somehow that tradeoff could be made

    +1

    I would love to get Christmas Cheer and the Frog Morton blends back on the market.

    On a slightly more serious note, though, I'm realizing that the folks who have been here a while have probably seen these kind of threads so many times, I can see how it would get annoying and tiresome. My bad.

    Weekly Esoterica scalper thread, along with the weekly McClelland and Dunhill closure threads.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  31. pipehunter

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    Good stuff, among many, many great blends out there, as has been said already. Worth the retail price in my opinion, but beyond that I wouldn't recommend chasing it. Once you are at $5/ounce (is that retail for Esoterica, roughly?) for a blend, you can buy the finest small, hand blends, as well. I am in the camp that thinks Esoterica makes great tobacco, but there are blends I prefer at LJ Peretti, the Owl Shop, and Pipeworks & Wilke (though I still need to try the new Wilke versions).

    Edit: As I think about it, for $5-6/ounce, I recently saw jarred 1993 Dunhill 965 at one of the better tobacco shops. Given tobaccos like that come up now and then at reasonable (to me) prices, the ebay prices for Esoterica blends seem even less attractive.

    The only real caveat is that if you are considering reselling them, the market for unopened tins and bags is robust while that for jarred bulk blends is pretty thin. Never been an issue for me, personally. And since I don't really trust the mylar (or whatever) Esoterica bags for the long-term, I've jarred mine anyway.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  32. sablebrush52

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    Once you are at $5/ounce (is that retail for Esoterica, roughly?)

    No. Actual retail is about half that. Actual MSRP is the same price as for a bulk. These blends were largely sold as bulk by Germain's.

    Shows you what hype, hysteria, and the pipesmoker lemming/hive mind can do to elevate a line of tobaccos intended as a good quality everyday smoke to the godhead. The same kind of hive mind process is happening with McClelland since their closure.

    McClelland and Germain's are very different blenders and their flavors do not intersect. A lot of McClelland products were spectacular, and a lot of them were duds. Would I happily trade one for the other? No way. What I will miss are McClelland's Reds. That's a flavor that will not be repeated by anyone else. But, I love Dunbar and Dorchester no less than CC, McCranie's, or their other Reds.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  33. pipehunter

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    Ok, I looked at a 2 oz tin and assumed retail was at least $10. I usually see it around $14 locally.

    Bags are cheaper obviously.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  34. trouttimes

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    I demand a special council be convened! Scalping is against the law! I want more oversite!

    Posted 5 months ago #
  35. hawky454

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    McClelland and Germain's are very different blenders and their flavors do not intersect. A lot of McClelland products were spectacular, and a lot of them were duds. Would I happily trade one for the other? No way. What I will miss are McClelland's Reds. That's a flavor that will not be repeated by anyone else. But, I love Dunbar and Dorchester no less than CC, McCranie's, or their other Reds.

    Very well said and I absolutely agree.

    Posted 5 months ago #
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    oldgeezersmoker

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    At UK shops, it seems that bulk Germains carries less than a 10% premium to something like Gawith & Hogarth bulk. I suspect without knowing for sure that the wholesale price Arango charges shops for ET is only a little more than what they charge them for GH
    ,

    Posted 5 months ago #
  37. cohibajoe

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    TP sent a Email Alert for Esoterica at 11:05EST...Sold Out...They do have Balkan Sobranie.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  38. 3rdguy

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    Seems like more frequent drops lately.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  39. hiplainsdrifter

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    To me the disgust is not at all about affordability, it comes from the fact that these are people who buy up all the tobacco they can solely in order to re-sell it at far more than the price which they paid, just to make money off of the people who they cut out of the original purchase. None of that extra money goes back to the manufacturers, and people who had nothing to do with the creation of the tobacco are making truckloads of money with little to no effort.

    This is some ignorant blather. Have you ever bought anything in a store? Ever? Guess what genius, the store owner didn't pay the same amount that they are selling it to you for. It is common for stores to double the wholesale cost of an item, with no value added other than that they have it where and when you want it. No difference here. I personally think you are a huge tool for badmouthing people you have never met.

    Posted 5 months ago #
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    I personally think you are a huge tool for badmouthing people you have never met.

    Is this irony?

    I like Esoterica blends and will pay for aged varieties. However, I won't pay exorbitant prices for fresh tins from another middleman.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  41. wyfbane

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    I personally think you are a huge tool for badmouthing people you have never met.

    Is this irony?

    lol

    Posted 5 months ago #
  42. 3rdguy

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    Posted 5 months ago #
  43. georgebmcclelland

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    This is some ignorant blather. Have you ever bought anything in a store? Ever? Guess what genius, the store owner didn't pay the same amount that they are selling it to you for. It is common for stores to double the wholesale cost of an item, with no value added other than that they have it where and when you want it. No difference here. I personally think you are a huge tool for badmouthing people you have never met.

    That normal price jump you're talking about has already happened when the company sold the blends to the distributers and tobacconists. What is happening with Esoterica is different. Imagine this analogy as an example:

    For the purpose of this discussion, we'll say that you really like Doritos.

    1. Doritos are made in the plant and sold to the supermarket for some very small amount.

    2. Doritos are sold at the store for $4.00 a large bag

    3. I go to the store, buy all of the Doritos as soon as they arrive, and there won't be another shipment for 6 months, so you can't have any.

    4. I will now sell you the Doritos you want for $20 a bag. You pay shipping.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  44. pipehunter

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    ^ agreed. Essentially, the retailer adds some value (moving the product from the wholesaler, who doesn't want to deal with individual small orders, to you). The scalper adds no value to the chain of sale.

    I don't really begrudge anyone their opportunity at arbitrage or even scalping. Maybe they are desperate for the money. But I do find it lamentable.

    Posted 5 months ago #
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    jeff540

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    There's been roughly the same 15 tins of Esoterica sitting at my local B&M for the last month; they don't take phone orders.
    Unfortunately, none I really care for that much (Pembroke, Margate, And So To Bed, and Sobraine).

    Maybe I should buy them all and resale for twice the price? Not.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  46. georgebmcclelland

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    I know I said I wouldn't play into this any more, and I'm almost sorry now that I have done so. The other guy was just being condescending and disrespectful and it set me off. I've tried to keep my response quite civil.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  47. georgebmcclelland

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    There's been roughly the same 15 tins of Esoterica sitting at my local B&M for the last month; they don't take phone orders.
    Unfortunately, none I really care for that much (Pembroke, Margate, And So To Bed, and Sobraine).

    Maybe I should buy them all and resale for twice the price? Not.

    If you re-bought them and sold them for a reasonable price, just enough to cover your troubles, that would actually be pretty cool. The tobacco would be enjoyed instead of sitting on a shelf, and you'd get your next 2 tins of whatever paid for with the effort. Win/Win. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with re-selling in general, it's just that the insane price jumping is dishonest, and smacks of racketeering. If they were buying Esoterica for 38 bucks and re-selling it for 45, or even 50, it wouldn't be anything to complain about.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  48. jpmcwjr

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    Yes, there's a huge gulf between what the General is saying above and snapping up all you can get and then reselling at whatever you can get. Illegal? No. Immoral? Probably not. But it stinks to see a few greedy folks edge on on supplies of select tobaccos.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  49. georgebmcclelland

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    There was a typo at the beginning of my last post. It should have run: "If you bought them and re-sold them" and not the other way around. Too late to edit so I'm posting this correction.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  50. hawky454

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    Is this irony?

    Excellent point!

    These threads never stop do they, and the name calling comes from both sides of the argument. I will say that they are entertaining at times but for the most part they're just the same old shit regurgitated in a slightly different way.

    For the purpose of this discussion, we'll say that you really like Doritos.

    1. Doritos are made in the plant and sold to the supermarket for some very small amount.

    2. Doritos are sold at the store for $4.00 a large bag

    3. I go to the store, buy all of the Doritos as soon as they arrive, and there won't be another shipment for 6 months, so you can't have any.

    4. I will now sell you the Doritos you want for $20 a bag. You pay shipping.

    Another excellent point.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  51. woodsroad

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    4. I will now sell you the Doritos you want for $20 a bag. You pay shipping.
    And if nobody buys it, the price will drop the selling point that buyers are OK with.

    This thread, and the dozens of others just like it that I've seen over the years, just confound me. If you don't like the price, don't pay it. You are not entitled to Esoterica. Nobody owes you Esoterica. If someone can turn a buck on your obsessive-compulsive desire to acquire Esoterica, then more power to them. That's why diamonds cost what they do. And, believe it or not, it's how Germain buys their tobacco. They don't grow tobacco, they don't buy from farmers, they most likely don't buy from the person who buys from the farmer. That tobacco may change hands several times before it ends up at Germain. I just don't get the outrage.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  52. d4k23

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    I have some moldy Dunbar I'm willing to sell for half of what I paid for it. Pick out the moldy bits, should be good to smoke!

    Posted 5 months ago #
  53. sablebrush52

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    I agree that aftermarket scalping isn't the equivalent of retail distribution and essentially parasitical, but then again so is a lot of economic activity.

    And it's buyers who make the market. Whether it's Esoterica, or pre-teen hookers, or Oxycontin home boutiques, there's no market without customers. So feel all the righteous indignation you want against all of these parasites, but keep in mind that they only exist because there's a willing host.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  54. woodsroad

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    The real problem here is that based on supply and demand, Esoterica is way underpriced in the retail market. Arango or Germain should be charging a lot more for it. I'm sure that there is a term in economics for this negative pressure on the supply side of things.

    I'd be interested to know why they've kept the prices low in the face of incredible demand. In talking with B&M owners, I know that Arango uses Esoterica as a wedge to get other their other products on the shelves, refusing to sell Esoterica unless a store also buys X, Y and Z from them. But that can't be the only reason for them to keep the prices down.

    Very good analogy with parasites and hosts, Jesse!

    Posted 5 months ago #
  55. cosmicfolklore

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    People complaining, gnashing their teeth, is allowing yourselves to be a part of the marketing of this product. It's like the Dark Side, the more you hate it, the stronger it gets.

    Let the hate flow through you... yes, yes, prices are going up as we speak. Please complain more, and gnash more... it's making me rich! Muah ha ha!!!

    Michael
    Posted 5 months ago #
  56. 3rdguy

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    Few blends whip up the emotions like Esoterica.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  57. mechanic

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    Being new i got plenty blends i wanna try im not worrying with the hard to get ones yet be my luck i fall in love and have to sell a organ to buy some.

    "I'm a kind person, I'm kind to everyone, but if you are unkind to me, then kindness is not what you will remember me for." - Al Capone
    Posted 5 months ago #
  58. cohibajoe

    cohibajoe

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    Few blends whip up the emotions like Esoterica.

    In the audio world...McIntosh loyalist..They just found out some New gear is assembled in China

    If this is a New drop from Germain's..I will be posting once I find some.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  59. hakchuma

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    If you haven't tried Esoterica your not missing much. I have three pounds of it umsmoked. Its about 4 years old now. I think ill just let it sit in my cellar to rot.

    "From tempers be it known that we are warm in the fields of battle and cool in the hours of debate"

    - Pushmataha, Choctaw Chief
    Posted 5 months ago #
  60. craiginthecorn

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    I believe that some of the hysteria is subsiding. Bags are sitting on store shelves for quite awhile now. Yes, Penzance and Stonehaven never last, but very excellent varieties are often available at retail.

    I, for one, have enough in my cellar. In the next week or so, I expect a call from the manager of the store where I smoke and rent a humidor locker telling me that the Esoterica shipment has arrived and that I can buy whatever I like. For the first time, my reply will be, "Thanks very much, but I have enough already." That goes for all the blends, including the Big Two. I'm going to leave them for someone else who, hopefully, will feel like they've hit the Lotto and get to experience either Nirvana or,sadly, disappointment.

    As for current prices, it offends me when retailers charge exhorbitant prices. I will not patronize shops that do that. But in the aftermarket resale world, it's pure and simple supply and demand. Price too high? Don't buy it and if enough do the same, the price will drop. On the other hand, if you're willing and able to pay more than I was willing to pay for something I've left on the table, good on ya.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  61. cohibajoe

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    Another Email alert for a known site yesterday(took 1day to sell out)...Now I am looking at the places most know
    to us as to start the New Year Esoterica drop.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  62. User has not uploaded an avatar

    greenmtnsmoke

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    I was a carton a week cig smoker for over 30 years. When I quit a little over a year ago a carton cost $68. You can find 8oz bags of most of the Esoterica blends for that much on ebay if you put in a little effort, except for the big two. I would rather smoke 8oz of Dunbar or Dorchester a week than any damn cigs. Even spending $100 for a 100g tin of Dark Star is a better deal than a carton of cigs. This is just my opinion and I sure wish I would have discovered Va and VaPer 30 years ago. I will never go back!

    Posted 5 months ago #
  63. cohibajoe

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    I was a carton a week cig smoker for over 30 years. When I quit a little over a year ago a carton cost $68. You can find 8oz bags of most of the Esoterica blends for that much on ebay if you put in a little effort, except for the big two. I would rather smoke 8oz of Dunbar or Dorchester a week than any damn cigs. Even spending $100 for a 100g tin of Dark Star is a better deal than a carton of cigs. This is just my opinion and I sure wish I would have discovered Va and VaPer 30 years ago. I will never go back!

    PM on Dorchester...As I said...Some places are receiving Esoterica.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  64. gerryp

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    One of my B&M shops got a shipment recently and I bought a can of Margate. I think it was around 16 or 18 bucks, which is close to what I'd pay online once shipping is added. I was expecting my socks to get knocked off, but they weren't. I like it, I'm not sorry I bought it, but it's not a favorite by a long shot and I probably won't buy that particular blend in the future given the availability and price of better English blends.

    The Esoterica prices were more agreeable to me than the fact that one of their other locations had marked up their last tin of Royal Yacht to $22, especially since nobody was in a hurry to buy it. Hell, if I was going to price gouge I would have made it a little more worth my while. Maybe if they had marked it up to 50 it would have sold faster. Either way, 22 isn't that bad considering how much people love Royal Yacht. I think their last tin or Deluxe Navy Rolls was marked up to 25, and it didn't last long.

    Right after McClelland announced their closure I bought a can of Frog Morton's Cellar, and I saw people on ebay charging $85+ for it. In that case I'd rather keep mine than sell it. It's a great blend, and enjoying it while I had the opportunity is worth more to me than a $60 profit. I should have bought another tin when my B&M had it though...c'est la vie.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  65. hiplainsdrifter

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    That normal price jump you're talking about has already happened when the company sold the blends to the distributers and tobacconists. What is happening with Esoterica is different.

    Nope. How many stages are there in the supply chain of a product? Probably a lot more than two for a bag of Doritos. At least the raw product producer, manufacter, distributor, and retailer. You are saying that if you add one more stage to a supply chain and it suddenly becomes evil. Disrespectful? You disrespected the many members of this forum that sell tobacco for more than they got it for, myself included. Most of these people are very generous and I often see them giving samples etc. away, but just want a good price if they are going to part with a rare item. I am happy to call you out for your disrespect.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  66. georgebmcclelland

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    I guess I'll admit that, in my initial posts on this thread, my language was quite ungentlemanly and regrettable. I'll apologize for that and, though I stand by my opinions, I now feel that perhaps I should have just kept some of those thoughts to myself. I have no stake in the re-sale market, on either side, and was only expressing, rather too crudely, my thoughts on the subject; without taking into account the folks that I was speaking of. I didn't mean to offend and, while I still wholeheartedly disagree with you, I understand why you reacted as you did and hope you'll accept this apology for my poor choice of words.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  67. davet

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    If someone is stupid enough to pay the ridiculous prices (in my opinion) that's entirely up to them. If someone is offended (their opinion) by the asking price.... don't buy it. It's really that simple. Salty Dogs is a wonderful plug tobacco but I won't pay that kind of money for it, my opinion/choice.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  68. balkisobrains

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    gerryp

    ...Margate...

    Jar it up & start smoking it in a few weeks, & over time it will start to change.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  69. sablebrush52

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    Nope. How many stages are there in the supply chain of a product? Probably a lot more than two for a bag of Doritos. At least the raw product producer, manufacter, distributor, and retailer. You are saying that if you add one more stage to a supply chain and it suddenly becomes evil. Disrespectful? You disrespected the many members of this forum that sell tobacco for more than they got it for, myself included. Most of these people are very generous and I often see them giving samples etc. away, but just want a good price if they are going to part with a rare item. I am happy to call you out for your disrespect.

    With respect, this is baloney. GoeorgeB, please stop apologizing for having a point of view. Could it have been more objectively expressed? Yeah, maybe, but read these threads and you'll find lots of bluntly expressed points of view.

    Aftermarket speculation is not the equivalent of production. Not in any way, not in any shape, not in any form. Speculators are not growing tobacco, curing, aging, or preparing that tobacco to be consumed. Aftermarket speculators are not creating or producing blends. Aftermarket speculators are not designing, fabricating, or maintaining the machinery to produce tobacco blends. They are not creating, nor maintaining facilities for the production of tobacco blends. They are not physically making blends. They don't design, nor manufacture, the containers for those blends. Aftermarket speculators do not distribute blends they created to the marketplace. Aftermarket speculators do not offer those blends to the consumer, where the initial chain ends. They are not the equivalent to producers. Aftermarket speculators are simply opportunistic economic parasites who exist only because there is a willing host. To the extent that they snap up and hoard product they distort the supply chain and the market. They provide no essential service. And all that said, it's not necessarily who they are, it's just what they do. And if buyers weren't willing to pay scalpers' prices, there would be no scalpers.

    And you know what? A lot of economic activity is essentially parasitic. But it is NOT the same as manufacturing new product. A lot of investing is parasitic, though not all of it. I do commercial art, which helps in the creation of new product, namely animated and live action films. I also underwrite construction loans and partner in the construction of new housing that creates something that didn't exist before and offers employment to people. But I also invest in funds and do nothing to earn that money except write a check. So to some degree, I engage in economic parasitism. I just don't have the need to pretend that it's something it isn't, or that it's somehow noble.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  70. bradical

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    ^^^ *mic drop*

    Don't go chasing waterfalls.
    Posted 5 months ago #

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