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saltedplug

Lifer
Aug 20, 2013
5,194
5,100
With all the excitement about the big money Chonowitsch pipes and the claim in his bio on smokingpipes that he has refined all parts of pipe design, including engineering, I decided to poke around a bit to find out what people mean when they use the term, especially as I've considered the term an inflated euphemism for drilling.
I thought I would get a lot of hits googling "pipemakers forum engineering," but not much turned up. But I did get a hit to Stephen Downie's blog:
"What this means for me when I'm making my pipes is that I drill with a large enough bit to give ample airflow. I'm a fan of drill bits on either side and including 11/64ths. These are generally small enough that they won't draw flakes of ash and tobacco up the pipe and large enough to give a good draw.
The next part is maintaining the airflow. You can have a draught hole an inch in diameter if you want, but if it narrows for to the size of a needle you still won't be able to draw much out of it. So here we come to the problem: People like an open draw and a narrow, comfortable bit. This means that simply drilling an 11/64th bit all the way through a piece of plastic and calling it done isn't going to cut it. That's why most pipe makers drill the stem material with a drill bit that tapers to a point from one side of the stem material then drill with a much smaller diameter bit from the other side. This is followed up by opening up the bit side of the stem with various needle files, thin saw blades, drill bits and other assorted burrs and files. The important part here is to make sure that the airway isn't constricted once the bit is opened up. The airflow should be constant from the draught hole to the end of the bit.
These are the basic rules I follow when I'm making a pipe. Every pipe is different and each needs to be evaluated for the engineering that will work best for the tobacco chamber size and construction considerations. Beyond these two basic engineering aspects people begin talking about polishing the airway, and other more exotic ways of helping a pipe smoke well. At this point it gets into the Law of Diminishing Returns. Basically it's a lot more work for very little -if any- gain."
So. He drills a non-engineered straight line through the shank into the bowl, at the bottom and centered. No engineering here. But he does take extra time with the stem and uses a variety of tools to promote the airflow through it. He opens the stem but uses no engineering principles in doling so. Also of note are the final two sentences which clearly state that hours spent on minute features, which might amount to engineering, produce little or no airway improvement.
I'm going to look into this more and will post here if I find anything noteworthy.

 

sasquatch

Lifer
Jul 16, 2012
1,689
2,883
Depends on what you think "engineering" is. If it's performing a specified set of calculations in order to determine the operational parameters of something, then no, pipe makers do not "engineer". However if modelling and real-world performance evaluations are considered, maybe there is some "engineering" being done.
In any case, what there undeniably is inside a pipe is a little physical chemistry going on. We are trying to pull a heated gas at low pressure through a tube. The hopeful idea is that in doing so we don't knock out all the good tasting stuff - oils, esters - the molecules we taste. Condensation is the enemy in this case, so the idea naturally enough is to build these things with fairly smooth interiors for the smoke. The idea of a constant-volume airway is one approach - you limit the twists and turns and most notably any plenum space inside the pipe.
There are other ways to skin the cat - Bernoulli's law indicate that the faster a gas is moving, the less pressure it exerts, which is to say, the less contact it has with the walls of the vessel. So a thinner and thinner tube might provide less condensation (to a point where it is too thin to pull the gas comfortably perhaps). Likewise other systems try intentionally to cause turbulent flow (Peterson System) to knock out "extra" moisture. Or the secondary cooling chambers of the so-called "reverse calabash" pipes, allowing cooler smoke through the stem, possibly cooling without condensing in the big chamber.
For sure I know a few guys in the "a pipe is a pipe, no?" school, but I've had so many incessant gurglers, hot smokers, bad tasting..... in short "bad smokers" that when I get a good one, I know it and cherish it, and as a pipe maker, I try to emulate it.

 
Jan 28, 2018
13,068
136,819
67
Sarasota, FL
I'm a mechanical engineer by degree. The term engineering is thrown around loosely and incorrectly when it comes to pipes. I don't think there is any engineering involved. There is art and mostly, there is manufacturing, building or crafting. If someone sat down and drew up a blue print for a new pipe concept, perhaps that could be considered engineering.

 
Jun 27, 2016
1,273
117
Double-edged sword with that "I'm an engineer" thing.

On one hand, you're going to get paid more for what you do.

On the other hand, you're going to get charged more when you stand there telling someone that you're an engineer, and proceed to try and (almost invariably incorrectly) tell them how to do their job, lol.

 

tbradsim1

Lifer
Jan 14, 2012
9,100
11,058
Southwest Louisiana
Hoosierpipeguy this is in no way meant to besmirch your proffesion, but I had an MIT Guy tell me the program I've designed for this unit(Chemical Plant) can not be undone or taken off the Computer, you have to let it run once it's on control. He told me that smugly. Now we ran the Plant with picture NASA boards computer control that you see on TV for a space shot. Semi Circle Stainless Steel operating Stations. But 4 ft in front of it was a backup board so in Emergencys we could take control when computer crashed. I went to the backup board and put everything on manual, then turned to Mr Smarty Pants, and said it's off control, I wish you could have seen the look on his face.

 
May 3, 2010
6,437
1,486
Las Vegas, NV
If someone sat down and drew up a blue print for a new pipe concept, perhaps that could be considered engineering.
Actually a lot of pipe makers do sit down and draw a "blue print" or template for the pipes they carve.
I would argue there is engineering involved, because you have to figure out drilling angles and dimensions. It happens especially with commission work. Guys like Rick Newcombe prefer pipes drilled a bit differently, so a pipe maker he commissions a pipe from would have to adjust his bit and angles to achieve the airway Rick prefers.
I think we take it for granted, because these pipe makers do it over and over again so much that we don't think there's much skill/design involved in it.

 
Jan 28, 2018
13,068
136,819
67
Sarasota, FL
A lot of pipemakers? Name 10 that you have seen do this or have seen blueprints with their names on them then.
tbrad, I've spent most of my career in technical sales and the last 10 owning a Construction Company. You could put the amount of pure engineering I've done in my career inside a thimble. I don't take it personally, I was just trying to offer some clarification. If some people want to call what they're doing with a pipe engineering it, they should have a happy. I can't see much engineering at all in factory pipes and I consider Artisan pipes more art than engineering. And I say that in a complimentary fashion.

 

sasquatch

Lifer
Jul 16, 2012
1,689
2,883
Okay, let's get past the semantics then.
Pipes built by individuals with the knowledge to do so are designed and manufactured with certain (fairly widely accepted) criteria in mind, hoping to overcome or bypass certain physical problems one experiences in pipes that are NOT made this way.
I can build a super, super shitty smoker, if anyone wants to buy one. And no one here would doubt it. Hell I could make a pipe you can't draw any air through at all if you want. Anybody want a two pipe set commission? One good one, one bad one, so they can see the difference??

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,765
45,325
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
My father was an engineer. He designed parts and systems for planes, automobile engines, and a wide variety of other applications, starting with the B-17 and continued right up through Apollo and the Shuttles. One of his last bits of engineering, done when he was 84, was the design for a working nuclear reactor small enough to power a pacemaker. Making anything that works properly requires a level of engineering, whether it's life support, or a Rube Goldberg combination apple corer and ass kicker.

If you're designing for function and following understood principles, or developing new principles, there's engineering involved, even if it's not at the level of an air bearing. Applied to pipe making it may seem a little grand, but it's not unjustified.

 

bigpond

Lifer
Oct 14, 2014
2,019
13
Oh please, there was a time in the not too distant past when all of the refinement and artistry fell under the much valued heading of craftsmanship. Then some jackasses realized you could squeeze a few bucks from millennials by attaching that word to everything no matter which part of a Chinese factory it fell out of and now pipe makers need to be engineers to prove their worth.
A couple years back someone, I think it was Jeff Gracik posted a link to a java file that explained the Bernoulli principle and flow dynamics on the pipemakers forum adding a pool of jargon to what those folks were already doing. Even by that time, US carvers had realized a trumpeted slot and thin bit was something they could offer to distinguish their pipes from average factory piece.
But this is not new ground, it’s simply a return to way pipes were made in the old days. My ‘30’s Comoy has a thinner bit with a deeper and more polished slot than any of my artisan pipes, Actually, that’s not true. I have one pipe with a thinner bit. It’s thin enough to be translucent when a flash light is employed. Shame on me for not knowing I needed to check this on a hand made, artisan pipe. I even had to drill that one’s shank out too, but w/e. It’s engineered.
No matter how well one engineers a straight line through a wood block, there’s no amount of needle filing that can accommodate an illseasoned block of briar. I guess this is going off the tracks now.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,765
45,325
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Well how else are you going to justify $7,000 for a piece of wood with two holes in it?
Is there an element of pretentiousness to all of this? Sure, when you compare making a pipe to building a suspension bridge.
Maybe Gracik is being sincere when he addresses the Bernoulli effect. Maybe it's showmanship to sell those pipes of his at high prices to rubes. Doesn't matter.
But even very simple things have an element of engineering.
Take the humble foil air bearing, which my father invented while working for Garrett:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_bearing
Looks pretty simple. Not much to it. Turned out to be a revolutionary development. The principle was there. He was the first to see it and apply it.
My father saw engineering as a component of many things, both exalted and humble. So do I. YMMV.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,459
Word, word-usage, diction matters. Words can be used poetically, and that's okay, if it is made clear in context that that is what's being done. So no, tobacco pipes are not engineered. (My pet peeve is when scientists and medical people use schizophrenia to mean being of two minds, or psychiatrically, to mean split personality. The illness schizophrenia is neither of these, and the ignorance of a Ph.D., M.D., or M.D. Ph.D., using the word that way should come close to revoking their degrees. People who suffer from the illness don't need more stigma and confusion on them.) Brad, love the story about going offline -- I hope the "expert" learned from this and didn't just go off huffy. It might have been a moment of enlightenment, and we all need those.

 

bigpond

Lifer
Oct 14, 2014
2,019
13
That’s pretty awesome Jesse! I agreee with your point. My post may have been a bit undercoffeed.

 
Skip, pipemaker and owner of The Briary was reading a PIpes & Tobacco magazine and ranting when I walked in one day. “Pipemakers calling themselves ARTISTS now. How pretentious.”

I wasn’t exactly sure what this was in reaction to, but I just couldn’t help but throw in my jab... “Whatever you call yourself, Skip, doesn’t matter. However... pretentious is charging $1000 and above for every pipe you make.” ...to the giggles and guffaws of the peanut gallery.
Artists, engineers, yeh, it’s just two holes in a block of wood. I have asked every pipemaker who comes into the Briary about how they determine length and diameter of the draft in the shank to the length and diameter of the draft in the bit, from Ser Jacopo to Nording to Jeppesen. They all just seem to use whatever drill bit they are used to using, and they don’t seem to use any mathematical formulas to determine volume nor diameter nor anything else engineering related.
I could dig a hole in the ground to set a pole, add my pole and pour in some concrete, and I’ve done just about as much engineering calculations as a pipemaker. That said, I think they rely more on magic than mathematics. :puffy:

 

ashdigger

Lifer
Jul 30, 2016
11,382
70,079
60
Vegas Baby!!!
I have a degree in Bovine Excrement Engineering with a minor in Botanical Entropic Decay......want to see my compost pile?
I deal with engineers all the time. Some are very good and some are just idiots who stuck it out in college. They all believe they are Forensic Engineers.....too bad that discipline doesn't exist.

 
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