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tschiraldi

Lifer
Dec 14, 2015
1,813
3,555
55
Ohio
I hope I'm not out of bounds here. I had a 1968 Dunhill Tanshell up for sale here. I have pulled it from the sale, and I'm glad no one here bought it. It's not a bad pipe. In fact, it is a very good pipe, but it's not the pipe I advertised. This was my first (and only) Dunhill. I bought it from an Ebay seller named "The Second Hand Smoker. The pipe had a(really well done) replacement stem. He also told me that the rim had been re-sandblasted and the pipe had been re-stained. Again, the restoration was a very good one, but the pipe was advertised as:
Looking over every part of this Dunhill Tanshell, shape 60, from back in 1968, I see nothing wrong with it. The chamber is used but sound; its rim is still clean, well-textured and sharply edged; the Tanshell blond coloration still remains; stampings are intact and legible; the mouthpiece is original and immaculate.
. I read a post yesterday where a member here stated he would never buy from this seller. Unfortunately I had read it too late. Needless to say, I won't be selling any more pipes I don't know intimately, or buying from sellers I don't know have a stellar reputation.

Not being either a Dunhill expert, nor a restoration expert, I posted a similar description when I posted it for sale here. On a good note, I requested a return to the seller for these reasons and he accepted. It will go back tomorrow. Again, I'm happy none of you bought it. It is a really nice restoration, but not original as advertised. I'm just glad he is willing to take it back. Maybe he didn't know either. I will give him the benefit of the doubt here, but I won't buy anything else from him either.

 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
5,491
13,920
The stem was definitely not original. The slot is too narrow. (pic from original ebay listing)
Gary knows better. That is disappointing.
s-l1600.jpg


 

tschiraldi

Lifer
Dec 14, 2015
1,813
3,555
55
Ohio
I took it to someone who knows pipes (and pipe carving and restoring). He showed me the difference in the blast and the difference in the notching in the stem work compared to other Dunhills from the same era. I don't know how he could tell regarding the staining. No harm done in the end.

 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
5,491
13,920
Re-staining and re-texturing are definitely NOT proceduresg that will disqualify a pipe from being considered original / legitimately restored, though.
Colors fade, damage sometimes requires it, etc. Artfully attending to such things is what restoration MEANS.

 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
5,491
13,920
I took it to someone who knows pipes (and pipe carving and restoring). He showed me the difference in the blast and the difference in the notching in the stem work compared to other Dunhills from the same era. I don't know how he could tell regarding the staining. No harm done in the end.
Actually, Dunhill routinely hand-textured sandblasted bowl rims and shank-ends at their shop. Seeing evidence of it does NOT indicate that a pipe was altered from the way it was sold new.

 

tschiraldi

Lifer
Dec 14, 2015
1,813
3,555
55
Ohio
I agree, and I will reiterated that it was well done. My complaint is that it should have been sold as such. The description stated that the "Tanshell blond coloration still remains ". Again, the seller may not have realized it himself. I don't know him, so I really have no idea.

 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
5,491
13,920
I'm going to risk being tedious here---my apologies---but I think it is important.
Gary should have noted that the pipe's stem was a replacement (it was obvious).
However, no seller can be expected to know---nor does it matter---what was done to a pipe if it has been properly restored. Returning it as closely as possible to new condition is what "restoration" means. (If the work was done badly, that's an entirely separate thing)
The only legit complaint a buyer would have is if a pipe was an old one and listed in AS FOUND condition, but it was actually restored and/or modified.
The word "original" in the PipeWorld refers to the materials---stem, bowl, etc---not the condition OF the materials.

 

tschiraldi

Lifer
Dec 14, 2015
1,813
3,555
55
Ohio
Georged, you keep saying "Gary". Is he a member here? I apologize if I've offended anyone. I just don't think I got the pipe I thought I ordered, and am happy he is willing to take it back. I would have felt badly if someone bought it from me and it wasn't what I claimed. No harm, no foul.

 

tschiraldi

Lifer
Dec 14, 2015
1,813
3,555
55
Ohio
Georged, you keep saying "Gary". Is he a member here? I apologize if I've offended anyone. I just don't think I got the pipe I thought I ordered, and am happy he is willing to take it back. I would have felt badly if someone bought it from me and it wasn't what I claimed. No harm, no foul.

 

tschiraldi

Lifer
Dec 14, 2015
1,813
3,555
55
Ohio
Georged, you keep saying "Gary". Is he a member here? I apologize if I've offended anyone. I just don't think I got the pipe I thought I ordered, and am happy he is willing to take it back. I would have felt badly if someone bought it from me and it wasn't what I claimed. No harm, no foul.

 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
5,491
13,920
Sorry. Gary Malmberg is who runs the Second Hand Smokes ebay site. His son Max does the clean-ups & etc.

 
Oct 7, 2016
2,451
5,195
The claim that the blond Tanshell color remains is misleading if in fact the pipe has been refinished. I do agree with George that the refinishing by itself is not an issue. That the pipe has been refinished is not obvious to me from the pictures. Opinions will differ re: retexturing as George calls it, but it is something that Dunhill would do for a customer, and I have seen correspondence referencing that.
The stem is pretty obvious and should have been noted. The ad description is very deficient in that regard.
If you paid anywhere close to the $175 you were trying to sell the pipe here for, you didn't get hosed by a long shot, IMHO. A 60 Tanshell from 1968 is a decent acquisition. I would need to see it in hand, but if I liked it I would have George make me a better bit.
The sellers (last I heard, a father and son) are very knowledgeable about Dunhills.

 

aquadoc

Lifer
Feb 15, 2017
2,044
1,522
New Hampshire, USA
This is an interesting thread. Truly ebay descriptions are caveat emptor. Oldgeezer, the only statement from this entire thread that gives me pause is your last one "... are very knowledgeable about Dunhills". If that is the case, then their original description is very suspect, don't you think? Should they not have noted for the less informed that the stem is a poorly made replacement, that the stain is not original but a restoration, and that the rim was reworked as part of the restoration? I certainly do not know enough to or have the expertise or eye of George or you to even ask the proper questions and you might say I get what I get. But relying on the honesty and candor of a respected seller should not be too much to ask either. So my question to you, in looking at the pipe, was the restoration work other than the stem done so well that you would not know it was not original? That seems to be the crux of the issue here.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,317
11,070
Maryland
postimg.cc
Full disclosure, I know Gary through the Philly club. If I had that pipe, I would have assumed that the stem was original. However, I rarely list that any stem is original. Making that claim is nearly impossible.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENGLISH-ESTATE-PIPE-DUNHILL-60-TANSHELL-1968-/371903745784?nma=true&si=T7gpRwTUHdKxW7KcBeymZ03Qzyg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Gary is an expert on Peterson pipes and is co-authoring the upcoming book on that brand. I don't think that he is a Dunhill expert. I would hope at this point that he is somewhat knowledgeable,but an expert, no.
He should have just let the pictures do the talking, similar to what Rodrigo at Treasure Pipes does, he just posts picture and specs.
I would expect Gary to accept any return request, so that's good on him.

 

tschiraldi

Lifer
Dec 14, 2015
1,813
3,555
55
Ohio
aqua - Yes, the restoration was very well done and my friend had to look closely to tell. If the stem had not been a replacement, he probably wouldn't have looked as closely to the rest of the pipe to be able to tell, but seeing that one issue caused him to look more closely. The seller really, really may not have known, and if he is this well known and respected here (as it seems he is) I have to assume this wasn't intentional. To be on the safe side, I'm sticking to Ebay sellers I personally trust (Pipestud, Coopersark, etc.).
Tim

 

ashdigger

Lifer
Jul 30, 2016
11,378
70,056
60
Vegas Baby!!!
I'll never buy from Second Hand because he typical only puts 3-4 photos in the listing. That alone eliminates him from contention. Then there is the wordiness of the listing.......

 
Oct 7, 2016
2,451
5,195
@aquadoc, from the pictures the only thing that jumped out was the stem. But I assume any 50 year old Dunhill has been "improved". I don't pay up for hype absent an ironclad return privilege. But I have been around the block so many times my tires are bald,which means I paid some tuition so perhaps I am being too cynical.
@ssjones, years ago Gary knew lots about Dunhills. And I have bought two pipes from TreasurePipes, both screaming bargains at under $100, but his pictures leave a lot to be desired and he does not always fully list the nomenclature. He does respond promptly to questions.
Sellers hype their merchandise. I represented a lot of stock brokers and so on over the years, enough to hear a lot of things they said among themselves, and one that stuck was, "Hell, if the deal was that good, who would need investors?"
And don't be too hard on the seller here. Replacement stems get overlooked. I have done it both as a buyer and a seller when I should have known better. That pipe looks like it is pretty far from POS territory

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,623
44,833
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Unfortunately I've caught, and reported here, deceptive practices by this seller. Look for the thread "Separated At Birth" about his deceptive practices. It's really disappointing to me because I used to recommend him as one of the eBay sellers to be trusted. I won't buy from him.

 
Oct 7, 2016
2,451
5,195
@sablebrush52, that is an informative thread.
Suppose you were at a show with a table and had some pipes for sale laid out with prices attached. One is a problem piece, for sale as is, but you know that someone who takes some time and invests some money can make a decent looking pipe out of it. Gary walks up. Would you sell him the pipe?

 
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