Dunhill Patent Era and Quality of Briar

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saltedplug

Lifer
Aug 20, 2013
5,194
5,097
As I understand it patents were made with oil-cured Algerian briar, and because of this are some of the best smoking pipes ever made; not that I've ever tasted the difference in briar or the improvement that particular briar makes with a certain tobacco, or all of them. Before I pay double for a patent compared to another good pipe, I thought I'd ask the question. Patents are that good?

 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,568
27,070
Carmel Valley, CA
As I understand it patents were made with oil-cured Algerian briar, and because of this are some of the best smoking pipes ever made;
Others have so written, but I am skeptical about the very premise.
Even if it's a demonstrably better smoker, is that slight difference worth hundreds? Only you can answer that part.
 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
5,491
13,920
Pipes into the mid 1960's (patent stamping ended in 1954) were made of briar from different regions according to finish.
Bruyere -- Calabrian
Shell -- Algerian
Tanshell -- Sardinian
Root -- Corsican
The reason was because the inherent properties of the wood were considered to be PART of the finish. (They look different)
As for patent-era pipes in general smoking better than what came later, I think that there is no CONSISTENT difference between pipes, period, never mind within a brand, as long as they are made from quality briar that's been properly seasoned. Good smoking and bad smoking examples can be found across the board, regardless of brand, style, finish, or anything else.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,623
44,833
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
The three level one Dunhill dealers with whom I have had discussions (all of whom thought Barlings were better :) and collected them) felt that Dunhill's briar was good, but that their stems were the best thing about them. Some collectors believe that Dunhill briar between 1958 and 1968 was as good, or better, than anything that they were using earlier.
There's nothing magical about Algerian briar. It used to be considered 2nd rate. Barling exclusively used Algerian briar that they themselves harvested and cured, up to 1954. After that they bought their briar from anywhere that it met their quality standard, France, Spain, Corsica, Greece, Sardinia, anywhere. Nobody can tell the difference except for a few woodworkers who can see the color difference. Good wood comes from a variety of sources. How it's processed and how the pipe is made is more important.

 

sasquatch

Lifer
Jul 16, 2012
1,683
2,862
I'll tuck in here too and suggest that only Shell pipes were oil cured. The oil-cure patent IS the shell patent.
AGree with Sable - good stems and careful construction make good pipes.

 

saltedplug

Lifer
Aug 20, 2013
5,194
5,097
I bought the pipe about which I posted, in Dunhill's terms, I guess, a Root, but I would simply call it a smooth. A previous owner couldn't see well enough to just light the tobacco and put a dimple on the rim which although it can be seen, is more than a blemish but not a divot. I am thankful he did so because it lowered the price, making it affordable. It's 7" long and was listed as 42g; seems heavier than that as I can normally balance 50g comfortably. This pipes is most easily held in the mouth hanging down. I'm not well-educated in physics, but it seems to me that the extra 1 1/2" is not the cause?
Love it, in any case. Pretty cool to buy a piece of history even if its no more than several decades.
If only the Shell pipes were oil-cured, why did Dunhill call other pipes patents? Marketing?

 

codecreatively

Can't Leave
Sep 17, 2014
329
2
Congrats on the new Dunhill! I've found the old shells smoke incredibly well.
I picked up a quaint 1950 patent root last week, about a group 2 in size. It smokes unbelievably well. Something about the old briar ;)
13654384_10207630122444151_1013748508834636312_n.jpg


 

saltedplug

Lifer
Aug 20, 2013
5,194
5,097
Gotta say that I love the shape of your quaint. Traditional shaping, not an apple but a topped apple; calling attention to itself by not ending up bulldog or rhodesian, yet with the diamond shank and stem of the former; and ending with the attitude of a good amount of cant. It's interesting what excitement a diamond shank/stem can add to a shape.
So I see three things in this shape:
unusual shape of the bowl

cant

diamond shank/stem
Imagine if this were a bulldog:
retains diamond shank/stem

looses most or all of the can't

traditional bulldog bowl
Few makers do traditional shaping through all of their pipes as well as Dunhill, and this pipe bears witness to that excellence. Though I love traditionalism, it's going to be a long time (eternity) before I pay double, or triple, for a Dunhill, especially as so many other makers can make pipes just as well, in England alone Chris Askwith and Jimmy Craig. These makers I'm sure push their pipes out more quickly than Dunhill, and in so doing probably allow details of fit and finish that Dunhill would not. If so I wouldn't particularly care as long as the pipe smoked well; and I have pipes by both; and they do. As above in my post about Dunhill patents, I finally am smoking a Dunhill, and a Dunhill from a venerated era at that. A more experienced smoker might have noted its superior smoking properties. I don't. I am susceptible as others to brand myth, but that doesn't mean I will pay for it.
Certainly the following statement is reductionist. "A pipe is an article with two holes in the front, one able to hold tobacco, and the other that opens to a passage that transports the smoke of the burning tobacco to a third hole, inserted into the mouth, through which the smoker sucks the smoke." This pipe might be much more primitive than most pipe smokers would accept. Doubtless many have seen such pipes on eBay, featuring duct tape reinforcement around the bowl or with a stem so fractured that even the most moderate clench threatens disintegration. Well-cured wood, airway and a comfortable bit might be called the internals of a pipe, shaping, fit and finish the externals. Would a primitive pipe as above pay attention to either of these aspects? Probably not as not a good smoker. I use this primitive definition not to advocate for its sufficiency but to put forward that most pipes meet the criteria of internals and externals at least reasonably well, and to question how it is that the pipes of certain makers commonly fetch $1,500.00 as their most humble creation. All I can say is how these extravagantly priced pipers appear to one whose pipes contain not one from the higher of the high end. If the pipe I pulled for a smoke was indeed such that it had impeccable internals and externals, and if I pulled the same impeccable pipes for most smokes, I would, by the experience of these smokes, have more valuable things to say.
When I think about this, Savinelli comes to mind, not that they do not make great pipes for the money. What do they really offer? A reasonable quality pipe for a reasonably matching price. But how do Savinelli, Brebbia, Stanwell and Peterson compete? Its my contention that buy making enough shapes to appeal to everyone, with an attractive finish atop the same internals. I would wager that all of these companies showcase their wares in glossy catalogues to be put in the hands of tobacconists, and more than a few in the hands of consumers. I would also bet that they represent themselves directly at pipe events.
I wandered from the discussion above about the last post about the quaint but will return to it by stating that I do love it for a shape that is more traditional than otherwise, but with features that make that shape exciting.

 

mawnansmiff

Lifer
Oct 14, 2015
7,385
7,295
Sunny Cornwall, UK.
"I wandered from the discussion above about the last post about the quaint but will return to it by stating that I do love it for a shape that is more traditional than otherwise, but with features that make that shape exciting."
Very interesting read Mike but I wonder if you would love so much if it wasn't a Dunhill?
Regards,
Jay.

 

saltedplug

Lifer
Aug 20, 2013
5,194
5,097
Jay, if the quaint in question were not a Dunhill, I would have less respect for the pipe but would love the shape just as much.
Glad you enjoyed the post.

 
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