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Dunhill Nomenclature Question

(16 posts)
  1. kane

    kane

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    Hello all,
    Happy Pipe Smoking Day!
    I have a question for those of you who are knowledgeable on Dunhill nomenclature.
    The pipe in question is a nice straight grain billiard from 1961.
    It is stamped:

    A DR
    III DUNHILL
    ROOT BRIAR

    It is a group 3 pipe.

    Could you please explain "A DR" and "III"?
    The only Dunhill pipe I have is a 1961 Tanshell group 4. That pipe is a perfect size for me. How different will a group 3 be?
    I don't know much about Dunhill pipes, but the one I have is a great smoking pipe.
    I really appreciate your help on explaining what these stamping mean.

    Thank you!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. dmcmtk

    dmcmtk

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    See here to get you started,

    http://www.pipephil.eu/logos/en/infos/dunhill2.html

    Dave
    Duke Street Irregular
    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    A = Bruyere Finish
    DR = Dead Root

    I'd have to see the actual "lll" stamping to be sure of what it represents. Dunhill had special markings for grades and fractional grades, which this might represent, or it might be something else entirely.

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    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    Could you post some photos? That should help, or at least be interesting to others.

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. kane

    kane

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    Thanks, guys. Thank you for that link.
    The info there states a 1961 would have a third letter following the DR to denote grade of the briar or grain I guess. This pipe only has the DR, but it is preceded by an A and then a space, which makes sense for the Bruyere finish.
    I wonder what III is? Do you suppose this was a grading that pre-dared the stars?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. kane

    kane

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    How does a group 3 compare to a group 4?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. beefeater33

    beefeater33

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    The 111 is probably the shape number. A 111 shape is listed as a group 3 straight billiard here: Shape 111 Dunhill

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    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. kane

    kane

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    That makes sense. Thank you so much!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. samcoffeeman

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    The other possibily is it is a DRA. They had DRB and DRC as well, with the A B or C denoting some kind of grade. Is the A next to the DR or next to the Size code, should be 3 in a circle if it's a '61.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. toobfreak

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    Would I be wrong to assume that all briar is considered root briar or is there some language that further breaks up different parts? And what would a dead root be--- it died in the ground? What would be a quality/advantage to a dead root?

    To Master Po: Is it not being able to see that makes you tire of life?
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    Posted 2 years ago #
  11. kane

    kane

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    Sam, what's weird on this one is that the A comes before the DR, so it's not the three letter DRA grouping, it's A then a space then DR. As sable mentioned the A probably refers to finish (although the stain is more brown than red), but it seems strange for it not to have the third letter after the DR for grading, as you point out, which jibes with what I am seeing on the reference sites. The III makes sense for it being a grade 3 straight billiard, and the 3 is in a circle on the other side of the shank. I will try to post some pictures.
    Thank you all very much for your insights and help.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. samcoffeeman

    samcoffeeman

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    I think the DR letter grades weren't always stamped, some are just DRs. Not sure if that is dependent on a certain era or just inconsistent with DRs in general. I know the newer system is the star rating.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  13. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    What would be a quality/advantage to a dead root?

    People will pay more for it. Other than that, no advantage.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  14. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    Dead root? Doesn't that happen in your 80's or 90's?? And, fortunately, but the time my briars reach me, the wood is dead.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  15. kane

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    Hey guys,
    just an update on what I have learned for anyone who might find it useful or interesting.
    I was confused by the A being set apart and before the DR, and believed it could be the A referring to the Bruyere finish.
    The pipe is a root finish, stamped with the R on the right side of shank and the DR and ROOT BRIAR on the left side of the shank. So the A could not refer to a Bruyere finish on a root finish pipe
    Apparently, the grade letters (later replaced by asterisks / stars) , in this case grade A, do not always follow DR or appear as a three letter group such as DRA. The DR is a stamp placed, and then later the grade stamp is placed, sometimes in different places.
    Wow.....talk about OCD minutia!
    Glad that's cleared up!

    Thank you all for your help.
    Cheers

    Posted 2 years ago #
  16. toobfreak

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    Hmm. Tanks guys. Is there a website or something somewhere I can look at on what all this obscure Dunhill nomenclature means? Maybe Dunhill themselves published one?

    Posted 2 years ago #

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