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  1. gerritjan

    gerritjan

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    In the new vision of Dunhill they have plans to remove the name "Dunhill" of their pipes. They will sell their pipes only with "the white spot" logo. All the other products (including the cigarettes) will still be sold under the name Dunhill.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. hodirty

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    Thats odd. I wonder why they wouldn't take pride in thier pipes and have their name thrown on 'em?

    The world we have created is a product of our thinking; it cannot be changed without changing our thinking.
    ~Albert Einstein
    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. eaglerico

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    gerritjan....Do you have a source for this?

    Glenn
    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. gerritjan

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    @eaglerico

    A director of Dunhill visited Pfeifen Huber in Munich. He told this story and an employee of Huber is member of a german pipesmokersforum where I am member too. And through the years that I know him and the information that he always give us,he was always reliable.

    @All,

    One of the reasons should be that Dunhill will not longer be associated with "smoking" (why they don't change the name of the cigarettes.....I find it hypocryte!) Plus the fact that pipes are only 2% of their total sales volume.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. papipeguy

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    I hear cha-ching for those of us with Dunhills made before the change.

    Blowin' smoke since 1970.
    Posted 1 year ago #
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    If this does actually happen, I predict it won't last.

    The pipes produced for the short period without the Dunhill name will be highly prized collectors items because there will be so few made

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. ssjones

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    A sad day when that occurs and I suspect rothnh is correct.

    Al

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. plet

    plet

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    So buy lots of Dunhills now AND when the new ones arrive

    I have a weak spot for Billard-, Canadian-, Liverpol- and Poker-style pipes from Comoy and Dunhill...
    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. dukdalf

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    My guess is that's exactly what we'll do .

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. admin

    Kevin

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    This matches a conversation I had with the director of Dunhill 2-years ago.

    I was aghast at what he told me. Actually, I was completely disgusted and have held my tongue ever since.

    I feel an editorial coming on.

    Check Out Our - Pipes Podcast
    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. cortezattic

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    Kevin, believe it or not, I'm very pleased by the discretion you exercised in holding that story back. Nothing can torpedo a publication's reputation for credibility faster than spreading hearsay impulsively. Solid, reliable reporting trumps bombshell scoops every time! Thanks for the excellence in journalism.

    I find myself sitting idly on the line dividing past and future,
    as if I could kill time without injuring eternity. -- Thoreau
    .
    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. plet

    plet

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    I don't know... I could live without the name and settle for the white "spot". I have always been annoyed be the Dunhill markings; it requires a small Phd. or good familiarity with certain websites to be able to decode the information embedded in the markings. I wouldn't mind a more simple and informative marking on the Dunhill pipes. Afterall the branding is in the "spot" and not in the name (IMO).

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. admin

    Kevin

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    @plet - No offense, but you are incorrect.

    Alfred Dunhill is the man that started it all, both tobacco and pipes.

    The company was split in 3.

    1. Dunhill tobaccos
    2. Dunhill pipes
    3. Dunhill luxury goods

    Dunhill is the brand.

    When I spoke to the director of the pipe company I found out that he is an anti-tobacco, anti-smoker that is completely repulsed that his pipe company is connected with tobacco and smoking.

    He prefers to think of Dunhill pipes as collectible and not something you should smoke.

    If I was a college professor teaching a marketing class, and he was in it, he would get an "F".

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. admin

    Kevin

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    Ironically, I'm smoking a White Spot Dunhill pipe in my avatar.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. admin

    Kevin

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    My conversation took place in August 2010 at the IPCPR trade show in Las Vegas.

    Dunhill had a private room, upstairs, off the trade show floor. It was locked, and you needed a special invitation to get in. The owner of Music City Marketing, which is the US distributor for Dunhill invited me up.

    As a big Dunhill fan, I was thrilled.

    My thrill soon turned to horror when I spoke to Kalmon Hener, Alfred Dunhill, Ltd.'s General Manager.

    Coincidentally, right at this time, in August 2010, it was announced (and PipesMagazine.com got the scoop) that Dunhill tobaccos would be re-introduced to the US market after being out of production for some years.

    The re-introduction of Dunhill tobaccos had people in a tizzy. It was huge, exciting news.

    When I told Hener about this, he seemed repulsed and told me how he didn't want his company to even be associated with the other Dunhill company, and he preferred to not even use the Dunhill name, and was changing all the marketing materials to only say "The White Spot".

    It was so bizarre to me, that I was dumbstruck ... speechless ... the room started spinning.

    I was too shocked to even respond and tell him that this was the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my entire life.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. peckinpahhombre

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    I own 13 Dunhills. Putting aside Roth's collectibility point, if they drop the Dunhill name, I won't be buying any more. Just a shame. Man, I was born 50 years too late.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. plet

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    @Kevin Thanks for enlightening me; I didn't know that.

    I'm aware that "Dunhill" is the brand though, however the way I was thinking it marketing-wise is just like the white earpiece cord on iPods, which made the Apple product recognizable and added to the brand popularity. A Dunhill pipe is easily recognized by the spot and does not need further introduction, at least to the majority of pipe smokers.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. papipeguy

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    Well, we all remember when Coca Cola introduced New Coke and how well that was received. It strikes me a absurd that a GM of Dunhill is repulsed by anything that is related to smoking. I don't know who hired the gentleman but if I was a board member he'd be in for a heck of a meeting; and fast.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. admin

    Kevin

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    Well, we all remember when Coca Cola introduced New Coke and how well that was received. It strikes me a absurd that a GM of Dunhill is repulsed by anything that is related to smoking. I don't know who hired the gentleman but if I was a board member he'd be in for a heck of a meeting; and fast.

    Exactly!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. gerritjan

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    Well, in my opinion it is the greatest mistake a pipe company ever could make.......Dunhill is in my opinion the famoust trademark in the world with a long history. I'm wondering what they are gonna do with the name of the pipetobacco.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. admin

    Kevin

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    See my post above - count 8 or 9 up from here.

    The Dunhill tobacco brand has completely separate ownership. It is owned by a tobacco company.

    Here's some more info -

    BAT (British-American Tobacco) owns the rights to the Dunhill name for tobacco.
    STG (Scandinavian Tobacco Group) is partly owned by BAT.
    Orlik Tobacco Company (the tobacco factory) is owned by STG and they produce the Dunhill tobaccos in Denmark.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. docrx

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    Kevin,
    I heard Mercedes was doing the same thing.

    It is impossible to tickle yourself
    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. rmbittner

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    Like everyone else here, this seems a decidedly odd business decision. But I can't say I'm shocked.

    What shocked me was hitting the Dunhill store on Fifth Avenue in Manhattan several years ago and stocking up on some of their store-only pipe blends. . . and then returning the next year only to discover that you could no longer buy pipe tobacco in the Dunhill store.

    To me, Dunhill is synonymous with pipes and tobacco. It is not synonymous with leather goods or men's accessories. But I'm guessing that's due to my age. There is a whole generation now for whom Dunhill has nothing to do with smoking.

    Bob

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. foggymountain

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    Kevin: Thanks for the information. Do you know who actually makes the Dunhill pipes now and where? The new pipes still say Dunhill, but the boxes and printed material say The White Spot. I smoke them for the smoke, not the name, but because I have over 70 Dunhills, I am quite interested in this thread.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. ssjones

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    Wow, they've been mulling over this strategy change for two and a half years? At least they are not rushing to judgement. A division President who detests their product line, that is quite puzzling.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. gerritjan

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    The same thing happens with Porsche pipes (made by Gubbels the Big Ben factory in the Netherlands, I don't know if these pipes are available in the US), Porsche will no longer be associated with "smoking" so the production has stopped.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. rmbittner

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    According to his LinkedIn profile, Kalmon Hener came from Hugo Boss. I think that says a little something about where his primary interests would lie.

    Bob

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. spartan

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    The company makes tobacco smoking pipes... drilled and everything... and they're not to be smoked?

    We're just supposed to collect them?

    Moron.

    "I was born to lose. So I'll die to win." -Breaking Benjamin
    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. numbersix

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    If I was a college professor teaching a marketing class, and he was in it, he would get an "F".

    Dunhill does carry a lot of other lines and if pipes are a tiny fraction of it, I can see taking that direction (from a purely branding POV). If however their pipes are still an important line of products for them, then it makes no sense. Especially if they intend to sell Dunhill cigarettes.

    No matter what, it's a shame for pipe smokers as it send the clear message that people at the top of Dunhill look down on their own product. Which signals the end of an era for sure.

    "Be seeing you"


    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. admin

    Kevin

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    @numbersix

    I think you missed when I posted this -

    The company was split in 3.

    1. Dunhill tobaccos
    2. Dunhill pipes
    3. Dunhill luxury goods

    Dunhill tobaccos have nothing to do with Dunhill pipes. The logos are even totally different.

    On another note, I just found out the the Dunhill tobacco production has been changed from Orlik in Denmark to Kohlhase & Kopp in Germany.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  31. numbersix

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    Thanks Kevin, my bad, read too fast. I was thinking along the lines of 3 divisions.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  32. ssjones

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    I guess that I must be a "nomenclature" guy to some extent. If I bought a new Dunhill, I'd want it to be stamped that way. Part of the Dunill intrigue, to me, is the ability to accurately date a pipe. Sure, it may take some detective work, but its not Egyptian hieroglyphics.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  33. numbersix

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    Do you know who actually makes the Dunhill pipes now and where?

    +1

    Does anyone know much about Dunhill (err, the White Dot) as it stands right now? I have a 2001 ODB that is superbly crafted but are they continuing that same standard? I've heard some say that they've already slipped when compared to their pre-1980 pipes.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  34. foggymountain

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    Six: I do not think they have slipped. I got my first, new, in 1959, probably. It was an amber root panel that cost $18. It is almost identical to the amber root panel I have now. Actually I think it didn't smoke as well as the new one does, but that could be a change in my taste over the years. I no longer have the old pipe to check. In fact, the consistency of the quality is remarkable.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  35. lordnoble

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    Still on my short list of pipes... A birth-era (1970's) canadian, billiard, or bent billiard, preferably smooth. Ultimately, I'll take what I can get, but that is my pipe dream (pun intended).

    -Jason

    The preceding statement is not to be construed as fact, but merely conjecture.

    Proud member of the BlackBlood Society
    Posted 1 year ago #
  36. keith929

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    Kalmon Hener a name that shall live in infamy and a class study in worst marketing mistakes ever made.

    A smart man learns from the mistakes of others.
    A wise man learns from his own.
    ---Anonymous
    Posted 1 year ago #
  37. gwtwdbss

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    So maybe I got a good deal on this unsmoked '61 Dunhill Shell then? It will be in my hands tomorrow. I wonder how long I can keep it unsmoked? I better savor my Docwatson Taylor Made Ashton and Castello Cutty before I start breaking in this one. Just in case. Woohoo!

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/290839783693?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

    Posted 1 year ago #
  38. ssjones

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    Wow, what a find gwtwbdss! I say let that go unsmoked no longer!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  39. foggymountain

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    I just received a Dunhill from Europe that is labelled differently. It says- Alfred, under that THE WHITE SPOT, under that dunhill, with a lower case d. The other side says ROOT BRIAR, Made in England and the date, 12. The model number is on the bottom of the stem. Seems to be proof of what gerritjan said.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  40. ssjones

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    That is interesting Foggy. Can you post a picture of the stamping?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  41. numbersix

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    @gwtwdbss

    That pipe looks gorgeous - but I am curious as to why they are saying it's a 61-62 year pipe? It looks brand new and the number 12 would normally make me think it's a 2012. From what I read online:

    Dunhill started to date code their pipes in 1960.

    After "Made in England" you may find a number (e.g.: 30).

    This means the pipe was manufactured in 1990 (1960 was 00, therefore 30 is 30 years after 1960 which is 1990 and so on).

    The cloth sack also shows the newer Dunhill logo, however the stamp on the pipe is the older logo style so I am not sure myself...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  42. ssjones

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    I think it is a 61: modern Dunhills have four digit shape numbers and the Dunhill logo was in an Oval.....*was*.....
    But I'm no Dunhill expert.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  43. dukdalf

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    This matches a conversation I had with the director of Dunhill 2-years ago.

    I've heard insinuations and semi-casual remarks to this same end as early as 2003 or -04. Not quite as shocking as this, but very clear in the intention that the name Alfred Dunhill should be separated from anything akin to smoking. In public, at least. I have no relation to Mr. Hener, but I'm quite sure he wasn't around back then.The general idea did seem to be that suits and aftershave were better prospects than pipes, so I can see why they hired him :D. foggymountain's recent acquisition (very nice, BTW!) seems to indicate the name will still be stamped on new pipes?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  44. foggymountain

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    Yes. It says Alfred Dunhill and The White Spot. I will try to get some pictures done over the weekend.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    I think it is a 61: modern Dunhills have ...

    Yes. It says Alfred Dunhill and The White Spot. I will try to ...

    Of interest to some, I am sure, but my take is, I don't care.

    I'm only interested in Dunhills made prior to 1968.

    Very nice score on the '61, friend.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  46. allan

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    Maybe it is a situation that 'Dunhill' is worried about getting involved in any lawsuit like the cigarette companies were (are)?

    The head guy is anti tobacco and maybe they are concerned about possible future class action suits?

    allan

    Allan
    Posted 1 year ago #
  47. gwtwdbss

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    Six. This was one of those pipes that was made in 61 but sold in 62. The 2 is stamped after the 1 and at an angle. Several Dunhills were double stamped like that denoting when they actually were sold and left the Dunhill shop.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  48. gwtwdbss

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    Take a look at the Black Briar. Second pipe down on this page. It shows a pipe with a sold year stamped also.

    http://pipephil.eu/logos/en/dunhill/others1.html

    This is a 1975 that was sold in 1976.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  49. sparroa

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    Kevin,

    When did Dunhill tobaccos switch over to K&K???

    This is the first I've heard of it!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  50. admin

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    When did Dunhill tobaccos switch over to K&K???

    I'm not sure. I just heard about it too.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  51. numbersix

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    Take a look at the Black Briar. Second pipe down on this page. It shows a pipe with a sold year stamped also.

    http://pipephil.eu/logos/en/dunhill/others1.html

    This is a 1975 that was sold in 1976.

    Thanks for the update Chris - I learned something new today!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  52. tbradsim1

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    Numbersix i bought a 1975 Blackbriar from Dave Neeb, sucker has a borehole as big as a cannonball. The old cajun

    The Old Cajun
    Posted 1 year ago #
  53. foggymountain

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    This shows the new labeling.An absolutely great smoking pipe.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  54. ssjones

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    Thanks Foggy, that is gorgeous!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  55. plet

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    Wow what a beautiful pipe, foggymountain!! I love that shape I'm having a estate Shell version restored right now; Can't wait to get it back.

    Does this new labeling still include a white spot on the stem?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  56. gwtwdbss

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    Yes, thank you Foggy. That baby sure is beautiful!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  57. cezario

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    Gorgeous grain ! Congratulations, Foggymountain !

    Cezario
    Posted 1 year ago #
  58. foggymountain

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    Yes the spot on the stem is still there, and still just a bit off center.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    flmason

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    Congratulations Foggy on your new Dunhill. Thanks also for answering my questions I asked in messages related to foreign taxes paid.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  60. plet

    plet

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    Yes the spot on the stem is still there, and still just a bit off center

    Thank you for the pics and the info foggymountain.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  61. allan

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    Foggy

    That is one beautiful pipe! To beautiful to smoke?

    allan

    Posted 1 year ago #
  62. foggymountain

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    Allan: According to the info above, that is what Dunhill says. Collect them but don't smoke them. This one has already been smoked 3 times. I say too beautiful NOT to smoke.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  63. metalheadycigarguy

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    Here's a dumb question, but why would a company such as Dunhill, which is known for its "collectible" smoking pipes, maker of premium cigars, seller of cigarettes etc. hire an anti-smoking moron to run a branch of their company that's related to smoking?

    Sounds like a good way to ruin a perfectly good product and put the company in the wrong direction. Another question, why would an anti-smoking moron want to be in charge of a company that sells a smoking product? Obviously money and not morals was a factor in his decision.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  64. ssjones

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    Unfortunately, the trend if the restaurant business (chains) is to hire a CEO with no prior restaurant experience. Sometimes they hit a home run, but just as frequently strike out. (Burger King, Darden, Yum, etc.)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  65. cigrmaster

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    It would not surprise me if the guy in charge eventually phases out Dunhill pipes altogether. 2 percent is not a big number, and if this guy is as anti smoking as it sounds, he will be on a mission to rid the company of these filthy pipes as soon as he can. It is obvious that tradition means nothing to him and that Alfred Dunhill's name is no longer worth anything.

    Chris and foggy great looking Dunhills.

    Harris
    Posted 1 year ago #
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    Anonymous

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    It seems that Mr. Hener's comments to Kevin are reflecting an about face. I'm thinking a bit more research might be in order?

    "A soft-spoken German, Hener came to Dunhill in 1996 after heading Hugo Boss' duty-free sales
    ...
    "Drawn to history, and especially antique-collecting, Hener accepted a job with Dunhill because it would allow him to relocate to London and make it easier for him to visit its famous antique market on Portobello Road.
    ...
    "A dedicated pipe enthusiast, Hener is fond of saying that smoking cigarettes is like sprinting down the street; smoking cigars is like walking down the street; and smoking a pipe is like sitting on a bench beside the street because of its relaxing qualities. He especially likes smoking a pipe in the winter because he finds something consoling about a warm pipe bowl in his hand on a cold day, and he describes his ideal setting as easing into a chair in front of a comfortable fire with a pipe in his hand and a Labrador retriever at his feet."

    There's a lot more "PR" available that suggest a dichotomy of thoughts and opinions regarding Mr. Hener. -- for anyone interested. I am sure, for a talented investigative reporter, this would make a great magazine profile.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  67. cigrmaster

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    That sounds a lot better, maybe he is re thinking his decision. If the guy speaks like that then how could he even consider taking the name off.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  68. User has not uploaded an avatar

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    If the guy speaks like that then how could he even consider taking the name off.

    From one who's worked in PR and advertising, I can assure you that the "boss" (i.e., the client) is not always .. hmm... let's just say astute when it comes to making the right decisions regarding marketing, advertising and public relations In fact, I could relate some horror stories that would make your hair stand on end.

    I'm hoping my not too subtle hint might inspire an interesting article in a pipe smoking magazine ...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  69. ssjones

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    It sounds like some Dunhill secretary or someone in PR wrote that piece. Someone probably said "make him appealing to the pipe customers".

    Posted 1 year ago #

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