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Dunhill Is Back

(73 posts)
  • Started 1 month ago by workman
  • Latest reply from frozenchurchwarden
  1. workman

    workman

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    I think: link

    Smoking is one of the leading causes of all statistics.
    Posted 1 month ago #
  2. taildraggin

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    Who says these times are bad?

    Posted 1 month ago #
  3. timt

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    Haha, I guess my little stockpile of Dunhill blends might not be so special after all. That's ok, this is good news.

    Tim
    Posted 1 month ago #
  4. morgansteele

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    Haha, I guess my little stockpile of Dunhill blends might not be so special after all.

    You're golden. Just wait for the inevitable debate on what changes were made and which version of Dunhill is best.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  5. taildraggin

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    X2. But, I'll take any Yak they make.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  6. youdancer

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    That's just made my day. Couldn't afford to go to deep, and really enjoying my dwindling supplies...

    Posted 1 month ago #
  7. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    Looks like BAT blinked. That is good news for people who enjoyed these particular clones. At least these should be the same as the stuff STG was putting out before. Fans will be able to enjoy them for a couple more years before the FDA Rules force them out of the US market. And if STG coughs up the money to pay for the Deeming or SE certs, then Dunhill branded tobaccos could be here indefinitely.

    Look like ultimately MSO was right after all.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 1 month ago #
  8. madox07

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    Yeah ... sorry didn't notice that workman started the thread a bit before me:

    here is the link I have found

    https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2019/07/03/1877811/0/en/Scandinavian-Tobacco-Group-A-S-acquires-premium-pipe-tobacco-brands.html

    Kevin posted this just before closing the other thread

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/scandinavian-tobacco-group-acquires-premium-115800007.html

    I guess it's for real this time, we'll see how this materializes.

    Sea Wolf Pipers

    "Like the mariners of old, a loner is acceptable but a pipe is best enjoyed in a pack"
    Posted 1 month ago #
  9. pylorns

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    I've updated information:
    UPDATE: Announced July 3rd. STG has acquired Dunhill pipe tobacco brands.

    I reached out to Leonard Wortzel at STG for a bit more information and he let me know they have the rights to all the brand names such as nightcap or 965 as well as the tin art. They just can't use the word "Dunhill". Stay tuned for more information as the true Dunhill blends are coming back.

    "Essentially. We’ll be replacing “Dunhill” with another, existing brand. Can’t quite announce that name yet. Instead of “Dunhill” Nightcap, it will be “Brand X” Nightcap." - Leonard

    I've included this on my blog post.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  10. mso489

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    Okay, guys. I said this was going to happen, one way or another. So when I natter away, once in a while I may have a point. Glad to hear it. Now we can all relax, on this subject.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  11. mikethompson

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    Interesting news to be sure! I'm glad that Nightcap won't fade away into the night.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  12. jpmcwjr

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    Well, so did I, but as the Dunhill star set decades ago, they (the successor companies) are just cashing in on the cachet of the name. Ring-a-ding! $$$. Mediocre stuff.

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 1 month ago #
  13. jiminks

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    Sablebrush: if you'll remember, I told you this a while back. The only surprise is that it's taken this long to announce it.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  14. cigrmaster

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    The should just call it Dawnhill or Dunehill Night Cap, Navy Rolls, ect.

    Harris
    Posted 1 month ago #
  15. pylorns

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    Or maybe it'll be White Spot Night Cap....

    Posted 1 month ago #
  16. woodsroad

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    Ooh! A Name Contest!

    Dump Fill
    Dumb Pill
    Dull Swill

    Or, as has been suggested, White Spot, but with a picture of a tongue with a cold sore on it.

    Really, I’m glad this worked out for STG. It’s also reassuring that the blends will return just as they were. Or just as they were after STG totally changed them. Or something like that.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  17. madox07

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    I guess it matters less if they call the brand Dunhill or not, as long as the recipes are the same. If they change the recipes, well ... that's the true problem right there.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  18. woodsroad

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    Maddox, they were already changed, at least twice, after Dunhill stopped producing them.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  19. litup

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    Dunghill

    Posted 1 month ago #
  20. madox07

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    woodsroad myeah ... you are right, but yet another change will make them loose in value all together. To that end it won't even matter if they keep the name Night Cap consistent, if the content of the tin is changed every time they change manufacturer. Is there at least a distant resemblance, for say, between Dunhill original Elisabethan and the K&K recipe?

    Posted 1 month ago #
  21. mityahicks

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    I would much rather another major blender's return. But that won't happen. I'm glad newer smokers will get to try these as well, and I welcome dark and light flake's return.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  22. hawky454

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    You're golden. Just wait for the inevitable debate on what changes were made and which version of Dunhill is best


    You’re absolutely right and as logic rarely plays a role in this, it won’t matter that it’s still produced by STG, the deciding factor will be that the tins have changed therefore the blends must have as well.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  23. cortezattic

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    So right, Dave.

    This reminds me of what Troels Mikkelsen said when Orlik took over production of Capstan Flake. Orlik utilized the tins and labels leftover from the Liverpool factory and never received a complaint; but when they started using their own labels, complaints about the Orlik version started coming in. [Source: Orlik Factory Tour video.]

    I find myself sitting idly on the line dividing past and future,
    as if I could kill time without injuring eternity. -- Thoreau
    Posted 1 month ago #
  24. railman

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    Good news indeed! I’m still sitting on some tins of Light Flake from the last time Dunhill disappeared around 2008 and feared never to return (I’m not complaining about decade old tins, it all worked out!).

    How about Dunn’s Hill tobacco?

    Posted 1 month ago #
  25. prndl

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    Actually, they just bought the rights to 3/5 ths or so of the tin art.

    The FDA's got dibs on the rest.

    Home is the sailor, home from sea,
    And the hunter home from the hill.
    Posted 1 month ago #
  26. olkofri

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    Glad my speculating/scalping efforts went into Vintage Syrian and not Nightcap.

    Not the sweet, new grass with flowers is this harvesting of mine;
    Not the upland clover bloom...
    Posted 1 month ago #
  27. cohibajoe

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    Glad my speculating/scalping efforts went into Vintage Syrian and not Nightcap.

    I did stock up nicely on Vintage Syrian.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  28. ron123

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    Or maybe it'll be White Spot Night Cap....

    Great idea!

    Posted 1 month ago #
  29. mso489

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    I agree the versions of these blends with the Dunhill on the label will still be sold for premium prices. When I'm popping a few of these old tins, it will be tempting to buy and compare the new with the old. Then there's the additional aging, that year's crop, the quality of the storage, etc. Of course the current/previous owners of the blends weren't going to let them fade into history where there was still a dollar/Euro value to them. It just doesn't happen.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  30. 3rdguy

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    Glad STG is making them.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  31. pappymac

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    And all those who were hoarding Dunhill blends hoping to make a large profit in a couple of years are now crying.

    I am glad we have a good admin and responsible moderators.

    Heave to you dark colored ship under sail! Prepare to be boarded!
    Posted 1 month ago #
  32. derhammer

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    Oh happy day!

    Pierre
    Posted 1 month ago #
  33. derhammer

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    I think I will open my second last tin of Nightcap today to celebrate

    Posted 1 month ago #
  34. woodsroad

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    Save your old tins and just refill them. Doesn’t matter with what. I use yoghurt.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  35. ashdigger

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    So, I unloaded my Dunhill Flake just in time....... my timing wasn't as good with my Pet Rock collection...

    Ubi Ignis Est?
    Posted 1 month ago #
  36. sablebrush52

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    And all those who were hoarding Dunhill blends hoping to make a large profit in a couple of years are now crying.

    Why? The new tins won't have the Dunhill name on them. And, pipe smokers will assume they're not the same, even if they are. SO those tins of ersatz Dunhill will be worth money regardless.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  37. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    So STG bought the blend names and presumably the blending rights. Otherwise, it's more baloney.

    I knew that STG had made attempts to buy the brands last year, but had also heard that they had been turned down. I guess giving up on any rights to the Dunhill name did the trick.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  38. 3rdguy

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    Without trying the latest blends I can say the previous ones were much better!

    Posted 1 month ago #
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    oldgeezersmoker

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    Of course the current/previous owners of the blends weren't going to let them fade into history where there was still a dollar/Euro value to them. It just doesn't happen.

    From the press release, “The price paid is confidential, but immaterial.”

    Posted 1 month ago #
  40. smudgersmissingleg

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    I wonder what will happen to the Charatan match blends now? It's good news for me as I've missed the Navy Rolls and only have 2 tins left in the cellar, we don't get Escudo in the UK so when DNR went the way of the dodo there wasn't really an alternative.

    Chris

    Posted 1 month ago #
  41. sablebrush52

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    It's interesting that the announcement specifies that STG bought the rights to the tin art and the blend names, but specifies nothing else, like the rights to the actual blends they were making for BAT. No wonder the amount was immaterial. Hopefully the blends will be a continuation of what they were blending for BAT. If not, they're another clone of a clone of a clone of a clone...

    It may be a Picasso, but it was painted by Ted Picasso. Oh, sorry, we can't use the word Picasso. We'll just call it Ted.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  42. workman

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    I'm glad this is happening, tin art or not. The name Dunhill means nothing to me, but 5 of their blends are dear to me for their flavor and mouthfeel, and that is what matters.

    Posted 1 month ago #
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    foursidedtriangle

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    Ok this puts a stop to any rumours about tobacco industry because STG are better informed and they are still investing in it.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  44. unkleyoda

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    Nice! I cellared away a few of my favorites, as I could afford. But now I can pop the tins and smoke to my hearts delight. Elizabethan and Navy Rolls, I'm looking at you.


    So you say you can drink? Well, I'm from Wisconsin. Try to keep up.
    Posted 1 month ago #
  45. mikethompson

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    I know that me and many other pipe smokers cut their teeth on Dunhill blends. I'm glad Nightcap will be available again, whatever they end up calling it, or whatever the tin art is.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  46. madox07

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    Is there any info on what would be an actual release date? When would we expect to see these blends available for purchase?

    Posted 1 month ago #
  47. morgansteele

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    It may be a Picasso, but it was painted by Ted Picasso. Oh, sorry, we can't use the word Picasso. We'll just call it Ted.

    George Liberace cranked out a nice career in a similar manner.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  48. taildraggin

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    I finished my last Light Flake tin from 2003(?) last month and it was sadly wonderful. I've never aged tins, but time obviously made it better than it was when fresh.

    As a side note, I've recently gone through many different tobaccos ending a long pipe hiatus and I'm surprised at the breadth and quality. It seems that sweet tobaccos are more popular today, with 'dryer' English blends being less so. I wonder if this is due to Dunhill's capitulation and Danish domination of the market?

    Posted 1 month ago #
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    oldgeezersmoker

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    Seems that the experts who pride themselves on their impeccable industry sources have scraped enough egg off their faces to retreat to a position of “the rights to the blends weren’t transferred. “. That assumes facts not in evidence,namely that BAT had any rights to what STG put in the tins in the first place. WAG, Charatan Nightcap, Royal Yacht, etc. will be here soon.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  50. mso489

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    I wonder if the Dunhill name is still under some control of the company that long ago abandoned pipes and tobacco for boutique merchandise. It may be that farming out the name to yet another "outsider" wasn't going to wash legally. The pipes have gone to the White Spot brand, which is a sort of "tell." Sable and Russ and others on here have a lot more "inside baseball" on these things than I do. But I am a sort of fan-boy for business pages, though no business man myself. I could say I was son of a business man (yeah, that's a joke, but a true fact too).

    Posted 1 month ago #
  51. disinformatique

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    The current Dunhill company wants to get rid of the tobacco and pipe association with the mark. Do people buy those overpriced Dunhill blazers?

    Chris

    Albert Einstein was once quoted as saying, “I believe that pipe smoking contributes to a somewhat calm and objective judgment in all human affairs.” One of the reasons behind this statement is that pipe smoking is meant to be a slow leisurely activity. It takes patience to smoke a pipe. Unlike cigarettes and cigars, there is a certain amount of technique to smoking a pipe. Where cigars and cigarettes can just be picked up, lit and puffed on, pipes require the development of a technique in order to get the best smoking experience.
    Posted 1 month ago #
  52. mso489

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    The Dunhill boutique merchandise is geared to that distinct fairly small urban customer base who really wants to pay more, much more, for whatever they buy, as the prerogative of being well-off (or vastly wealthy). The idea that you can buy one hell of a t-shirt at Walmart for six bucks holds zero charm, is intensely repugnant to those costumers. When they go about their business, they want the security of knowing that even their t-shirt cost $185 ... or $300. The Dunhill stores leap to their rescue and supply what they need. As does Neiman-Marcus and others.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  53. sablebrush52

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    Seems that the experts who pride themselves on their impeccable industry sources have scraped enough egg off their faces to retreat to a position of “the rights to the blends weren’t transferred. “. That assumes facts not in evidence,namely that BAT had any rights to what STG put in the tins in the first place.

    Actually, your statement assumes facts not in evidence, that STG owned the blends independent of BAT. Let's try something also not much in evidence here. Logic.

    Let's say that STG does own the blends, in the same manner that Germain's owns the Esoterica blends. Leonard Wortzel announces 2 1/2 years ago that BAT has decided to discontinue the production and distribution of the Dunhill blends made by STG. If STG owns the blends, why simply cease production? Why not announce that the blends will continue to be made, just under a different name? They can't use assets owned by BAT, like the Dunhill name for tobaccos, or the trademarked names, but they do own the blends. They simply could have announced that they would continue to make them and call them something else. Why not do that for their loyal customers?

    And I'm not saying that what's headed your way isn't exactly what what used to be headed your way when the Dunhill branded blends were in production. I sincerely hope that they are, for the sake of all who loved these blends. But nowhere does the announcement state anything about the blends themselves, only that STG bought the rights to the blend names and the labels though not the brand name, for a immaterial amount of money. It's rather odd, when it would be simple to just say they're continuing production of the blends they made for BAT, which they owned independently.

    Granted, the tobacco blending industry thrives on secrecy and illusion. How many versions of 1Q are being tinned under other names? 10? 20? 30? More? John Cotton's Cherry Vanilla Bend Over made in the same grand old tradition?

    Lots of facts are not in evidence.

    Like I stated earlier, I hope that this does mark the return of the formerly Dunhill branded blends to those who love them, but this announcement doesn't actually have anything to do with that.

    After a lifetime of negotiating, rewriting, tearing up, and signing contract, after contract, after contract on almost every show I've worked on over 42 years in "glamorous" Hollywood, I've learned to note the importance of what isn't stated as much as what is.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  54. mso489

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    Usually the business minds behind these deals aren't the blenders (or the directors or actors in movies). The money people are playing their high stakes games of threats and bluffs, and much of the essence of the action is not written or otherwise recorded. The contracts aren't a record but a product. sable, something like that?

    Posted 1 month ago #
  55. sablebrush52

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    The contracts aren't a record but a product. sable, something like that?

    Contracts are a little bit of both. Last year, one company that wanted me to work on their project gave me a contract to sign, whose language in essence gave them total rights to every idea or creative property that I owned, or would ever own. If wasn't state in quite such bald faced terms, but it was clear. I refused to sign that contract and made my objections clear. Their legal department responded that such an interpretation of intent on their part was preposterous. So I suggested that they strike out the offending language, which they were reluctant to do. Then they rewrote the contract in a manner that changed nothing, and I refused to sign that.

    One of their staff contacted me to ask what I wanted. I said I wanted a clear statement to the effect that the only thing they owned was the work I did for their production, with the proviso that I could later show it privately as part of my portfolio strictly for the purpose of seeking employment, something that is standard practice in my industry.

    Well, they balked at that, and I suggested that they would be better off hiring someone else. They weren't keen on that so I offered to write out the terms for them, which I did. They then inserted the terms in a paraphrased manner that in effect gave them the rights to every idea I've ever had or will ever have. I refused to sign that contract as well.

    They finally relented and added the clause exactly as I had written it.

    This certainly had its result. In their following contracts they didn't try to hide what they were doing, but spelled out that they expected to own all rights to every idea that any employee had. At least they were no longer trying to be coy about it.

    And in this instance it very well may be that STP owns the blends, to the extent that any entity can "own" a tobacco blend, but feels they're worthless without the tin art and the names to confer recognition and legitimacy and that it took this long to forge an agreement with BAT. Until they state that in simple and straightforward terms, you aren't going to know that.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  56. sablebrush52

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    Well, this is interesting. We're having an earthquake. Gotta go.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  57. mso489

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    'sable, I hope the tumbler was not destructive. In San Diego, I went through a few of those minor ones in the Navy cafeteria. Only two of us at different ends of the table, and the guy was glaring at me, until he realized I wasn't shoving the table around. On the subject of contracts, I have a notion of which movie corporation that could have been, but perhaps most operate that way. I have a friend whose father was a career-long movie industry lawyer, and he did handsomely. It's an industry of its own. I'm surprised the intellectual property lawyers haven't equalled out the boiler plate on these contracts, but good for you to push back hard. I'm afraid many young folks without the patience or knowhow to read the contracts, being all excited about landing a gig, sign away their lives. This relates directly to the discussion of the transfer on rights to these famous pipe tobacco blends, the same tug of war.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  58. sablebrush52

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    It was a significantly strong quake, but its epicenter was located well over 100 miles from where I live. Even at that distance, it was enough to set the whole building swaying around, with my monitor acting like a drunken parson. Fortunately the epicenter was in the Mohave desert, well away from any population centers. Must have scared the hell out of the rattlesnakes.

    I learned long ago to read contracts very carefully. Only a fool doesn't do that.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  59. paulie66scandinavian

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    Then there will be like four clones of Dunhill on the market,Charatan Dunhill,Kolhase&Kopp ,Wellauers Clones and finally the SGT,how long this nonsense will keep going on,,,

    Paul The Scandinavian'
    Posted 1 month ago #
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    instymp

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    I didn't see the article mention Dark Flake.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  61. newportpipe

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    I was told they will be under the Peterson line (ie. Peterson Nightcap, etc.). The guy seemed pretty sure of himself. DISCLAIMER: I have no idea if this guy knows or, thinks he knows.

    Back to the pipe after 5+ years.
    Posted 1 month ago #
  62. brian64

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    Their legal department responded that such an interpretation of intent on their part was preposterous.

    LOL ... I love how they denied their intentions when confronted.

    You're not supposed to be able to understand their language.

    “Bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out.” – George Carlin
    Posted 1 month ago #
  63. jpmcwjr

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    They presupposed you'd (Jesse) not grok the lingo....

    Posted 1 month ago #
  64. craiginthecorn

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    Great news. Now I can smoke Dark Flake with abandon. The timeline is pretty much what I'd understood should be expected and have shared in the past. First get Peterson in distribution, then move on the Dunhill tobaccos. My sources were solid and, as it turns out, correct. Glad I listened and didn't chase overpriced tins.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  65. unkleyoda

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    Then there will be like four clones of Dunhill on the market,Charatan Dunhill,Kolhase&Kopp ,Wellauers Clones and finally the SGT,how long this nonsense will keep going on,,,

    Since the STG stuff is the only 'Dunhill' I know, I'm fine with that. To me, the STG stuff is 'Dunhill' tobacco, the others will be the clones.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  66. woodsroad

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    Can a pipe tobacco blend be protected by law? I’m doubting it. Unless it was part of STG’s contract with BAT, an agreement to not produce and sell the blends outside their partnership.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  67. sablebrush52

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    Can a pipe tobacco blend be protected by law? I’m doubting it.

    I agree, and it's probably why there is so much secrecy and just plain bull in the tobacco blend manufacturing business.
    But it would be possible to patent a unique process that creates a blend.

    Dunhill didn't invent sandblasting. The patent for that dates back to 1870. So Dunhill couldn't take out a patent on sandblasting, but they could take out a patent on the use of heat and oil processing to harden the wood for sandblasting.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  68. paulie66scandinavian

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    @UncleYoda, Yes I do agree with You but if my memory serves right earlier to STG production there was this Dunhills done by Murray's ))

    Posted 1 month ago #
  69. seanv

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    I am happy to hear this. I hope it is true

    Posted 1 month ago #
  70. hawky454

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    So right, Dave.

    This reminds me of what Troels Mikkelsen said when Orlik took over production of Capstan Flake. Orlik utilized the tins and labels leftover from the Liverpool factory and never received a complaint; but when they started using their own labels, complaints about the Orlik version started coming in. [Source: Orlik Factory Tour video.]


    That’s hilarious!

    Posted 1 month ago #

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