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donjgiles

donjgiles

Lifer
Apr 14, 2018
1,571
2,523
Regarding this thread with photos...
Patent Dunhill Shell
I have exchanged emails with Mr. Dibos regarding the technical aspect of this pipe and his conclusion is that this is the end of a shank mounted Vernon tenon with the end cut off.
The stem also seems made for this configuration.
But, the patent date on my pipe is only for the Shell not the tenon. I believe this pipe has similar stamping mentioned by Mr. Loring in his article Mythical WWII Pipe
So, is my pipe dated to between 1941 to 1943?

When did Dunhill stop using the Vernon tenon, 1940?
Is it possible that this pipe was put together after the bombings using available parts that would add to the strength of the pipe? My musing from my romantic history side...
Thank you for your thoughts,

Don

 
rdavid

rdavid

Part of the Furniture Now
Jun 30, 2018
648
9
Milton, FL
Sorry that I can't help with any intelligent answers but your posts got me interested so I looked up the Vernon tenon. It does look like your pipe was equipped with one that was subsequently cut off.
Some of the pictures with the Vernon tenon intact show a small diameter black rod inserted into the tenon. Was this some sort of filter system? I have to wonder why someone would cut this off?
Fascinating nonetheless am I'm anxious to hear how this plays out.

 
jpmcwjr

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,706
27,301
Carmel Valley, CA
Just to add an illustration of the Vernon tenon:
dunhill1a.jpg


 
rdavid

rdavid

Part of the Furniture Now
Jun 30, 2018
648
9
Milton, FL
Thanks jpm.
I've also seen pics with what looks like a rod or possibly a filter inserted in the middle between the three tangs. Was curious about that. Wondering if it's actually a filter or rather a rod designed to increase the draw?

 
doctorbob

doctorbob

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 18, 2014
772
1,158
Grand Ledge, Michigan
The 'rod' sometimes seen in a Vernon region is the Dunhill inner tube. I have two of these pipes, and they don't smoke well without one. The prongs of the tenon make for a turbulent, gurgling mess.

 
ashdigger

ashdigger

Lifer
Jul 30, 2016
11,381
70,076
60
Vegas Baby!!!
Panhandler, the "rod" is an inner-tube.
Here is another example, the more common example, of the Vernon tenon. The Patent #'s are 1341418/20 & 186190/32



 
doctorbob

doctorbob

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 18, 2014
772
1,158
Grand Ledge, Michigan
My 1933 I'd like Ashdigger's with the tenon screwed into the stem. My 1934 has the tenon screwed into the shank. I don't think these were made for very long, I am not sure I've ever seen one made after the mid thirties.

 
rdavid

rdavid

Part of the Furniture Now
Jun 30, 2018
648
9
Milton, FL
Ash that last pic shows the Vernon tenon coming out of the stem whereas the rest are coming from the shank...
Were these able to be reversed or was it installed like that in specific certain models and/or patent numbers?

 
doctorbob

doctorbob

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 18, 2014
772
1,158
Grand Ledge, Michigan
Glad to hear about yours Ashdigger, both of mine are prone to gurgle, one will even drip moisture out of the stem shank junction if I'm smoking a gooper. I like inner tubes though, never smoke a pipe made for one without it.

 
ashdigger

ashdigger

Lifer
Jul 30, 2016
11,381
70,076
60
Vegas Baby!!!
Don, this is just a guess, so please forgive the statement, I wonder if your stem is a replacement. GeorgeD posted about a pipe stem he made that had the uncommon Vernon where the prongs inserted into the stem and he commented about what a PITA it was to replicate. I'm wondering if the "craftsman" that made the new stem, just decided that it was too much grief and fixed it with a hacksaw.
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/rare-vernon-dunhill-1935-re-stem

 
doctorbob

doctorbob

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 18, 2014
772
1,158
Grand Ledge, Michigan
Ash that last pic shows the Vernon tenon coming out of the stem whereas the rest are coming from the shank...
Were these able to be reversed or was it installed like that in specific certain models and/or patent numbers?
Click to expand...
No difference in patent number, later pipes tend to have the fitment in the shank. George Dibos once said he thought the change was due to durability concerns.
The Vernon tenon was not a success.

 
rdavid

rdavid

Part of the Furniture Now
Jun 30, 2018
648
9
Milton, FL
OK. Thanks again doctorbob.
It looks like a well engineered system. I'm guessing it's one of those ideas that looked good on paper but failed in real life application.

 
donjgiles

donjgiles

Lifer
Apr 14, 2018
1,571
2,523
Ash

I wonder if your stem is a replacement
Click to expand...
No worries. I have no idea. I will say that the end of my stem seems more finished, can you see the lip around the entrance in the stem? This may sound silly, but the dot seems different on this pipe than the newer Dunhill pipes I have handled. I have no clue...

I still don't understand why there is anything Vernon on a pipe made in the 40's and why?

 
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