Dr Watson's pipe?

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judcasper

Can't Leave
Jan 9, 2019
306
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I've been working my way through the Rathbone/Bruce series of Sherlock Holmes films over the last week or so and am now hoping to identify Watson's pipe of choice. They differ from film to film, of course, but a recurring one has a straight stem which is shaped almost square but turned through 45° so that it forms a triangular shape when holding.
I've looked through the various styles and shapes but don't seem to be able to find the exact style, and would like to know if this model has a definite name.

 

olkofri

Lifer
Sep 9, 2017
8,049
14,666
The Arm of Orion
Have a link to a pic?
Sorry, I tried to google pics of Watson's pipe from said show but came up empty. From your description it's a half-bent pipe of some kind.

 

Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
43,445
109,364
6c5cafade5882a8c16d033187f4e9fc0.jpg


 

judcasper

Can't Leave
Jan 9, 2019
306
14
No, it had a bigger bowl. Like I said it's most distinguishing feature was the shaft; square and turned through 45° to form an upright diamond (sorry, I said triangle in my OP).
Like this, but straight.
iu

My own detective work (see what I did there) would suggest it was a Straight Rhodesian.
iu


 

olkofri

Lifer
Sep 9, 2017
8,049
14,666
The Arm of Orion
The one in the first picture you posted is a Canadian. It might also be a Liverpool, but the shank looks more oval than round to me, ergo Canadian.
#2 is a half-bent bulldog. #3 is a squat bulldog; although it could also be argued that it's a hybrid of a straight bulldog (it has the bulldog's diamond-shaped shank) and a bullcap (due to the squat, large diameter bowl).

 

judcasper

Can't Leave
Jan 9, 2019
306
14
The one in the first picture you posted is a Canadian. It might also be a Liverpool, but the shank looks more oval than round to me, ergo Canadian.
Oval?? Are you referring to the picture of Nigel Bruce? I didn't post that image.
So if #3 is a squat bulldog, what is it that defines the diamond-shaped shank, then? When I did an image search for the 'Straight Rhodesian' most of the results showed this type of shank.

 
May 3, 2010
6,442
1,494
Las Vegas, NV
The consensus is that a diamond shank and a bowl with rings makes it a bulldog. If it has the rings and an oval/round shank that makes it a Rhodesian.
Now brace yourself, millions of opinions are coming lol.

 
Jan 8, 2013
7,493
733
Now brace yourself, millions of opinions are coming lol.
We haven't had a good Rhodesian Vs Bulldog debate in a long time. :mrgreen: And so....
If it has the rings and an oval/round shank that makes it a Rhodesian.
I don't believe it has to have the rings to be considered a Rhodesian, as long as the bowl shape is somewhat there... in other words, rounded down or angled down at the top of the bowl to where rings might be if the carver or maker decided to put them there.

 

olkofri

Lifer
Sep 9, 2017
8,049
14,666
The Arm of Orion
Oval?? Are you referring to the picture of Nigel Bruce? I didn't post that image.
So if #3 is a squat bulldog, what is it that defines the diamond-shaped shank, then? When I did an image search for the 'Straight Rhodesian' most of the results showed this type of shank.

Ooopsie, I scrolled too fast and didn't see it had been the Capt'n who posted the portrait of Mr Bruce holding a pipe with an oval shank larger than twice the height of the billiard-shaped bowl: i.e. the definition of the Canadian shape.
RE: the photos that you did post, Judcasper, what Lordofthepiperings said. To an avid classifier obsessed with exactitude, the definition of a bulldog shape requires the stem to have a diamond shape. It's like a car needing to have two doors in order to be a coupe; four doors would exclude it from the coupe category and force it into the sedan one.
Of course, you have to keep two things in mind:
1) Pipe shapes are an umbrella term, but carvers will introduce small variations. Just go to SPC's website and use their Pipe Locator to make a search for any given shape and you'll see myriad interpretations, but overall they all fit the same template that defines the shape.
2) There are pipers who don't give a flying trout about purism. They'll have their opinions and stick to them. I won't waste time arguing with them.

 

judcasper

Can't Leave
Jan 9, 2019
306
14
This pipe? Straight Bulldog
Bravo! That looks very much like the one which prompted the original question. How on earth did you hunt that image down?
If it has the rings and an oval/round shank that makes it a Rhodesian.
Backed up by the chart posted by olkofri, so I'm even more confused now as to why my image search for the Rhodesian brought up so many pipes with a diamond-shaped shank.

 

olkofri

Lifer
Sep 9, 2017
8,049
14,666
The Arm of Orion
I'm even more confused now as to why my image search for the Rhodesian brought up so many pipes with a diamond-shaped shank.

Either people who don't know their shapes, or image makers and/or content uploaders just throwing in keywords willy nilly, or both.

 

crashthegrey

Lifer
Dec 18, 2015
3,818
3,612
41
Cobleskill, NY
www.greywoodie.com
image makers and/or content uploaders just throwing in keywords willy nilly
So much this. Don't trust an image search. The pipe charts are the better option. Definitely a straight bulldog and from that image it has a silver shank accent. Many of the pipes used during that time were Peterson, so the one you search may very well be as well.
SH4-42.jpg
And just for fun, Watson also smoked a square shanked version:
sh3-29.jpg


 

judcasper

Can't Leave
Jan 9, 2019
306
14
Definitely a straight bulldog and from that image it has a silver shank accent.
I can see from the clarity of the pipe in that first image that this is definitely the pipe I wanted to identify.
This and some of their related posts have a lot of research about these pipes already done.
Great blog, too. I've bookmarked that so I can ID all the others that prop up (although I think I've seen nearly all the films now)

 

crashthegrey

Lifer
Dec 18, 2015
3,818
3,612
41
Cobleskill, NY
www.greywoodie.com
Judcasper, the good news is that this shape and setup was incredibly popular at the time and you will have no problem finding a similar silver capped bulldog from the era. The bad news is that this shape and setup was incredibly popular at the time and you will likely have no luck discerning who made that particular version of this pipe.

 

judcasper

Can't Leave
Jan 9, 2019
306
14
The bad news is that this shape and setup was incredibly popular at the time and you will likely have no luck discerning who made that particular version of this pipe.
It's a nice pipe, so even if examples were to fall within my budget I don't think I'd mind who made it.

 

jguss

Lifer
Jul 7, 2013
2,477
6,450
The problem with this kind of debate is that the answer is usually fuzzy. In this case Nigel Bruce had many, many pipes.
A tobacco trade article from the 1940s states that of the five "notable" pipe collectors in Hollywood, Bruce ranked first. In case you're curious, the other four were John Ford, Archie Mayo, Jean Hersholt, and Arthur Hornblow (described as a less avid collector than Ford, Mayo, Hersholt and Bruce). Mayo and Hornblow, by the way, didn't smoke. The article goes on to say that compared to the others "...Bruce is the one who owns the largest number, all broken-in and fit for use. Nigel has bought and broken in an average of one pipe a week for the last ten years."
The article also states that "...during the filming of...Suspicion...Bruce offered to use his own pipes. The deal [with Hitchcock] was made at 50 cents a pipe. Bruce used as many as ten different pipes in as many non-continuity scenes. But he drove the script girl crazy. She had to watch that Bruce didn't enter a room with one pipe and then leave it with another."
For the die-hards I suggest watching Suspicion (always worth doing again) to see the ten pipes Bruce chose to bring from his collection to the set, out of the 500+ he's supposed to have had. For the less zealous, here's a photo taken on the set of Suspicion with Cary Grant and Nigel Bruce, the latter with pipe in hand (not a bulldog in this case):
nigel-bruce-suspicion-pipe-600x473.jpg


 
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