I'm a Mario Grandi pipe collector with about 25 to choose from... so far. And I've noticed, from briar to briar, that some pipes, in hand, are fairly heavier than others; taking into account that a particular two could be in the same general size class, though one is heavier. Does more dense briar denote better quality material; the heavier, the more covetable?
-
-
Subscribe
------------------
------------------
-----------------
Pipes Magazine » General Pipe Smoking Discussion
Does heavier briar denote... higher quality?
(42 posts)-
Posted 5 months ago #
-
NOOO, it is the total opposite, the lighter briar is higher quality, it means it is a more naturally dried and old peice. The drier it is, the more porous it is, that means it will smoke drier and cooler,because of better absorption
The lighter the better!!! all the time. If you have two of the same pipes, the lighter weighted one is the better peice of wood, providing the grain is better
Congress seems to believe that 'Children are our future' is a phrase coined by tobacco advertisers.
Jef I. RichardsPosted 5 months ago # -
Thanks jchaplick:
I hear people talking of the quality of the grain on smoothly finished pipes too. What exactly is the set of good characteristics of a pipe that has, "good grain". Would you say that a pipe maker could be covering up the fact that a particular hunk of briar was of lesser quality... if he chose to sandblast parts or... the whole thing? Or can great grain be recognized still?
Posted 5 months ago # -
I have several good quality rusticated pipes. Despite the fact that you couln't see the grain with x-ray glasses, they are all very light and smoke dry and pure. A Ser Jacobo, in particular, meets all these standards and is jet black in color.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Pipe manufacturers tend to rusticate or sandblast briar that has too many pits and flaws to be a good smooth pipe. The briar may be a good grade, just too scarred up after rough cutting to polish. Lighter wood is drier
for the most part, i.e. less moisture content. I tend to steer away from heavily painted or varnished pipes, as the paint may trap heat, and the maker may be trying to hide something. Otherwise, the lighter the weight in comparable sizes, the better the briar is cured.Posted 5 months ago # -
everybody has made good points, as far as good grain, rustication which is different than sandblast covers grain. You typically want as much grain as possible, stay away from bald spots, areas that have no grain.
Posted 5 months ago # -
I think there is a point that is being missed, or at least bypassed. How can you assume to know the "dryness" of a piece of briar? And, do you think that moisture alone would account for a substantial enough difference in weight to be noticeable in the hand?
Edited to add, I don't believe that there is any correlation between the "dryness" of briar, and the quality of said piece. A bone dry, 300 year old piece of briar can have as many pits and holes as any other piece, and moisture content has no effect whatsoever on grain uniformity, or lack thereof.
Posted 5 months ago # -
jpberg: I don't think anyone said old briar doesn't have flaws or that moisture has to do with grain.
The fact that it is lighter can't mean anything but that it's more porous, whether that has to do with moisture content or not isn't as relevant as the fact that it should be able to absorb more by being less dense.
Posted 5 months ago # -
But, does the ability to absorb more make a piece of briar more or less desirable? We are talking about minute amounts of weight.
If porosity was the determining factor in pipe quality, we would all be smoking meerschaums and olive woods.Posted 5 months ago # -
Just to be clear... what is exactly meant by, "smokes dry"? I'm hypothesizing that it means... more dry, making the briar capable of absorbing more moisture during smoking; less or no gurgling during a pleasurable smoke?
Posted 5 months ago # -
Some quality briars are oil cured like Dunhills used to be, this is supposed to remove sap from the briar, this makes the briar lighter and more absorbant.
Regards Ken,
I am not young enough to know everything.Posted 5 months ago # -
"Smoking Dry", to me, means that you get little to no gurgling (moisture buildup) while smoking a bowl. The drilling of your pipe and your packing/cadence are key factors.
Posted 5 months ago # -
The short answer is yes, if you have two identical pipes, with identical grains, and one is lighter then the other, it is more desirable
Posted 5 months ago # -
Awesome topic guys! This is the "learn something every day" of the day!
"I used to cry because I had no shoes. Until I met a man who had no feet"- My favorite and I use it to get by...
Support The Epilepsy Awareness Foundation!Posted 5 months ago # -
While some pipes are sandblasted to cover up the grain, higher end pipes are chosen for their grain when sandblasted. A well sandblasted pipe still shows the grain quite well.
A tattoo on a beautiful woman is like graffiti on a Ferrari.Posted 5 months ago # -
hauntedmyst is absolutely right about the relatively modern practice of sandblasting to HIGHLIGHT the grain, rather than to cover it up.
And in my opinion, some of the BEST at this are American carvers like Rad Davis, Brian Ruthenberg, Bruce Weaver, and of course JT Cooke.
Posted 5 months ago # -
The short answer is yes, if you have two identical pipes, with identical grains, and one is lighter then the other, it is more desirable
Why? I'm not being a smart ass. I'm genuinely wondering what has led you to that opinion.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Less or no gurgling as a result of drier, more porous hunk of wood perhaps but... one thing is puzzling me. It seems, when I'm smoking, most or all of the moisture occurs... in the stem. Yes? No?
Posted 5 months ago # -
You're right, the bottom of the bowl and the beginning of the stummel are where the gurgling happens. That's where the moisture is going to collect and interact with the air that you are drawing through the pipe. That's why good drilling is absolutely essential. If the airway is drilled too high above the bottom of your bowl, you're creating a sump, in the direct line of your draw, where moisture can sit, and not easily escape.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Why? I'm not being a smart ass. I'm genuinely wondering what has led you to that opinion.
Im not trying to be a smart ass either haha, it being lighter, as in weight, not color, just to be clear, means that it has a more porous structure, a little weight may not seem like much, but when you are dealing with molecular structures, that means it is significantly more porous, the more porous it is the more tars and juices the pipe absorbs from the smoke, making it abetter smoke, and it will extend the life of the pipe in general
Posted 5 months ago # -
Weight alone is not a perfect measure of porosity or density. Diffusion would indicate porosity and something like specific gravity would probably be a better measure for density. I would suggest that weight is not a sure-fire way to determine if your pipe is more porous or less dense relative to a pipe with more weight.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Yes, weight is not a measure of density. But if the volume of wood of two pipes is the same, the lighter one is the less dense. I do not know how one would measure porosity. Maybe the less dense one has more air voids and is more porous.
There is a charm about the forbidden that makes it unspeakably desirable. Mark Twain
“Very few people are focusing on the potential damage this ill-conceived and hastily assembled homage to the ability of bureaucrats to conceive of all manner of problems where problems don't exist then apply solutions to those problems that only create new problems without solving the original problems at all will bring to many sectors.Posted 5 months ago # -
Weight alone is not a perfect measure of porosity or density. Diffusion would indicate porosity and something like specific gravity would probably be a better measure for density. I would suggest that weight is not a sure-fire way to determine if your pipe is more porous or less dense relative to a pipe with more weight.
Specific gravity is the ratio between the density of something compared to a reference material. In other words completely irrelevant to actually measuring density.
To get the density of a piece of briar weight it (let's ignore gravity, you'd be weighting the different pipes at the same gravity anyway unless you're in a plane going somewhere or the stars happen to align as you do the measurements ;)) and then measure the volume (by putting it in a bowl of water and measuring how much the water rose for example) and divide the two. Repeat for several pipes. What naturally follows with that formula (mass/volume) is that the lighter the pipe the lower the density.
Now that we've established that weight actually IS a sure-fire way to determine the density (no one suggested not taking volume into account - a huge pipe will obviously weight more than a small pipe - we're not stupid) the only thing left to argue about is the impact that difference in density actually has on smoking qualities.
Considering the obvious difference in smoking quality between a porcelain pipe and a clay pipe we can easily tell that porosity can have a major impact on smoking quality. The difference in porosity between two pieces of briar will naturally never reach those heights, but without some different sample pieces of briar and a lab to conduct absorption and heat conductivity experiments in it's not that easy to tell just how much the difference in density will impact smoking.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Well, we're taking more bites out of this sandwich, but we're nowhere close to finishing it.
At what point does cake render any absorbtion charateristics a moot point?Posted 5 months ago # -
If you held two pipes in your hands and they were the exact same weight - would they also share the exact same density or porosity?
To get the density of a piece of briar weight it (let's ignore gravity, you'd be weighting the different pipes at the same gravity anyway unless you're in a plane going somewhere or the stars happen to align as you do the measurements ;)) and then measure the volume (by putting it in a bowl of water and measuring how much the water rose for example) and divide the two. Repeat for several pipes. What naturally follows with that formula (mass/volume) is that the lighter the pipe the lower the density.
Weight is a measure of gravity's effect... hard to ignore it. Weight is still an imperfect measure for density and you explain why right here: mass/volume. Mass, as a measurement of inertia, is universal (and why it's different than weight - semantics in our field of gravity perhaps but not insignificant and must be accounted for in any equation measuring as much). I didn't see any talk of volume and that is a primary reason why weight alone is an imperfect measure of density (as you and loneredtree suggest). If weight were truly a sure-fire way to measure density a ton of lead would have the same density as a ton of feathers. Density Scales.
Specific gravity is the ratio between the density of something compared to a reference material. In other words completely irrelevant to actually measuring density. [:)]
I would think that specific gravity could be a useful metric to determine the relative density against our known reference (water). It came to me because I seem to recall that SG is measurement for different types of wood - someone somewhere has probably determined the specific gravity of briar for that matter. Seems that it isn't completely irrelevant to this particular conversation.
This did get me thinking about ambient conditions on briar - doesn't wood take on the ambient humidity of it's environment? Wouldn't seasonal changes or changes in locations with large differences in relative humidity have noticeable effects?
Posted 5 months ago # -
Yawn . Less weight eguals more seasoned briar . Seasond pipes smoke better . Why ? Because God made it that way .The wide open pores disapate heat faster resulting in a cooler smoke . Ever wonder why a older pipe smokes better or why some pipes just take forever to break in . The reason is the curing of the wood . Trust me no one wants a green pipe .Yucky . The evidence is clear in almost every pipe makers shop you will see a bag of briar ageing and drying . Once the cake is built up to protect the wood in the bowl . How in the sam hill are the resins and such going to permeate the pipe after the cake is built . As the wood heats up the wood pores open and release the heat .Yet the cake holds the embers of joy .
“There was an awful suspicion in my mind that I'd finally gone over the hump, and the worst thing about it was that I didn't feel tragic at all, but only weary, and sort of comfortably detached.”Posted 5 months ago # -
Yawn . Less weight eguals more seasoned briar . Seasond pipes smoke better . Why ? Because God made it that way .The wide open pores disapate heat faster resulting in a cooler smoke . Ever wonder why a older pipe smokes better or why some pipes just take forever to break in . The reason is the curing of the wood . Trust me no one wants a green pipe .Yucky . The evidence is clear in almost every pipe makers shop you will see a bag of briar ageing and drying . Once the cake is built up to protect the wood in the bowl . How in the sam hill are the resins and such going to permeate the pipe after the cake is built . As the wood heats up the wood pores open and release the heat .Yet the cake holds the embers of joy . [:nana:]
Thankyou, probably the best way to put it so far
Posted 5 months ago # -
Engineers and scientists design stuff , figure everthing out with theories and math . Then the janitor comes along and fixes stuff so it works .
Posted 5 months ago # -
sounds about right doesnt it
Posted 5 months ago # -
Weight is a measure of gravity's effect... hard to ignore it.
The gravity difference in a single specific place on earth exerted on similar pieces of briar within seconds or minutes of each other are obviously negligible and can safely be ignored for our purposes (which is comparing the relative density of two pieces of wood).
I didn't see any talk of volume and that is a primary reason why weight alone is an imperfect measure of density
So you think that because we didn't mention volume we thought it wasn't a factor? No one ever mentioned weight alone, completely disregarding the common sense and logic that size matters. It's implicit and thinking otherwise isn't very bright.
I would think that specific gravity could be a useful metric to determine the relative density against our known reference (water). Seems that it isn't completely irrelevant to this particular conversation.
specific gravity would probably be a better measure for density
No, specific gravity isn't a better measure for density. Density is a better measure for density. Mixing specific gravity into the mix is just complicating things and has no practical purpose for comparing the density of two pipes. It's still irrelevant.Posted 5 months ago # -
wood can absorb an enormous amount of moisture, and the weight can be changed drastically. although with such a small piece of wood the amount of weight added might seem negligible. look at humans, more than 80% of whose weight is water, as an example of how living things tend to do that.
Posted 5 months ago # -
I didn't see any talk of volume and that is a primary reason why weight alone is an imperfect measure of density
Two pipes of the same size with different weights have different volume. If two pipes have the same measurements and one is lighter wouldn't it have less volume which means that it would be less dense?
Posted 5 months ago # -
[quote]Engineers and scientists design stuff , figure everthing out with theories and math . Then the janitor comes along and fixes stuff so it works .
Then the TOOLMAKER comes along and fixes stuff so it works .
:rofl:
It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling---Mark TwainPosted 5 months ago # -
Things you might consider when buying a pipe:
Weight
Density
Specific gravity
Molecular structure
Barometric pressure
Altitude
Relative humidity
Grain quality
Absorption ratesOr you can keep it simple. If you like the looks of a pipe and it feels good in your hand, buy it. Then if it gives you a pleasurable smoke you can rest assured that you did well.
Posted 5 months ago # -
So you think that because we didn't mention volume we thought it wasn't a factor?
No, I don't think that. I simply think that weight alone is an imperfect measure of density. I try my hardest not to assume what others are thinking as it's difficult for me to know. You will also have to excuse me for my obliviousness to the obviously negligible, the safely ignored, and (implicit) common sense - apparently.
...and thinking otherwise isn't very bright.
You're in good company there as my lack of brightness is well known (just ask my wife!). At least the internet got it's quotient of self-important immodesty filled.
Personally I'm with Philip: If it feels good - do it.
Posted 5 months ago # -
How did this post get so heated ? It was a good question but not a question of great importance and not one that needed such scientific debate and such one-up-man-ship,
come on behave and smoke your overweighted and underweighted pipes. 
Posted 5 months ago # -
You can not clench a heavy pipe as well as you can a lighter one . By the way weight has little to do with strength .
Posted 5 months ago # -
By the way weight has little to do with strength .
You're telling me... If that were true, I'd be able to lift a small elephant.
I think this question is valid, and while I kind of got lost in the scientific jargon (can you tell science was never a strong suit for me?), it seems that the answer is, no and yes. Just to not clarify anything. Glad to add a useless statement to an otherwise valid question!
I do admit to being guilty of the heavier is better thing. Not with pipes, I buy them for their looks and value. I'm talking about other things.. If I'm spending money on a nice kitchen knife, I'll initially lean toward a stainless steel blade even though I know from experience that a ceramic one will be just as good if not better.
-Jason
unclearthur on high nicotine blends:
A few will leave you wandering around wondering who you are .Posted 5 months ago # -
Personally I don't care much about the weight of a pipe because I don't clench for long periods of time; I drool. I do however prefer many things to be heavier: lighters, knives, harmonicas, etc.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Anonymous
Unregistered
Posts: 524offlineLogin to Send PM
i think the lighter the briar the better, not for the clinching in the mouth, but for the smoking quality of the pipe, especially on the larger brair pipes. just my opinion.
Posted 5 months ago # -
If it's good for you, do it... true indeed but... physics and etc. help one come to the conclusions as to WHY... they feel they like it. Everyone knows that they love a particular model wireless phone, home theater speaker system or LCD screen but... does anyone care to know why? Why a pipe is a generally desirable one, ought to be studied a bit; broken down... torn apart. I mean... we have plenty of articles to read in order to help us understand how the multitudinous blends of pipe tobacco are processed and etc. but... hardly any as to what we should look for in purchasing a quality pipe and why.
I mean... wouldn't one like to be able to give a better answer to the question, "Why is this pipe cost so much" or... "Why do you like this pipe more than you do... THIS pipe" other than... "I don't know dude. I just like it."
Posted 5 months ago # -
A different slant to this conversation:
Weights are often added to online pipe listings as a way of judging quality, with heavier being generally preferred.
This is my experience, anyway, after restoring a few hundred estates and selling my own pipes.All the (admittedly impressive) talk of density, porousness, etc. aside, when buying something based solely on pictures, people want to know if the pipe is substantial. That doesn't necessarily mean disproportionately heavy or poorly weighted. But when you're thinking of buying a 60s era Sasieni chimney form, you don't want it to weigh 25g. That would mean either the pipe is burned out from someone smoking it too hot, or the walls were made too thin in the first place.
None of that speaks to weight relative to smoking qualities.
Just wanted to point out that the reason weight is often listed is because people want a non-graphic measure of the product they are buying.
Also. . .my $.02 on a couple other topics that have been raised:
- grain has very little to do with smoking properties. Proof? Take a look at some 50s/60s Dunhills. They're known as some of the best smokers of all time, and cost a fortune today. Charatan used to make fun of the grains on Dunhills in their advertisements. That's how non-uniform the graining could be.
- I think it would be difficult to find a pipe maker who worked with wet briar. It's just not done. I don't even know where you could buy green briar blocks. When you see big racks of briar in someone workshop, it's not because they are aging the wood (unless we're talking Savinelli or something, in which case there are warehouses for aging), but because they bought in bulk at one point, and like going through 200 blocks to find just the right one for whatever form they're about to build.Posted 5 months ago #
Reply
You must log in to post.
Back To Top | Back to Forum Home Page
Members Online Now
lankfordjl, stonewall, rcstan, cortezattic, xray, riptide, danno, photoman13, briarbird, zanthal, martiniman, morse, dhizzy, oldmaus, mountainman, crpntr1, kcvet67, kyletheaviator, whimsyt, carlosviet
| Home
| My Page
| Forums
| Events | Pipe Babes | Pipe
Listings |
Pipe & Tobacco Reviews |
Pipe Collecting | Pipe
Videos |
This site, PipesMagazine.com, is not in any way affiliated with Pipes and Tobaccos Magazine.
We are an online magazine & community and do not publish a print version.
| Pipe Manufacturer & Retailer Spotlight | Pipe News | Pipe of the Week | Pipe Smoking Thoughts | Put that in Your Pipe |
Wine | About
Us | Contact
Us | Links
| Privacy
Policy | Terms &
Conditions | Advertising
| Site Map |
| Join the Forum |
| Getting Published on PipesMagazine.com |
All Rights Reserved. Copyright © 2009 - 2012 Right Click Media, LLCThis site, PipesMagazine.com, is not in any way affiliated with Pipes and Tobaccos Magazine.
We are an online magazine & community and do not publish a print version.
We use the SafeSurf Rating System to signify that PipesMagazine.com is for adults only
