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Do We Have The Power?

(84 posts)
  • Started 3 years ago by cigrmaster
  • Latest reply from mcitinner1
  1. cigrmaster

    cigrmaster

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    Back in my cigar days, me and some guys would put together some pretty serious group buys and worked some great discounts with our Cuban cigar sources.

    This site is the most popular pipe site on the web with more action than the others combined. So say we wanted to get in touch with one of the sponsors of the site and we get 20 guys to buy ten tins each of the same blend. That is a 200 tin order, how low could we get a vendor to go? Could we get 25% off, maybe less, maybe more? What if we got 30 guys, do we have the juice to get these types of discounts? I don't know but it would be interesting to find out. If we have some serious interest, post it here, I will approach some vendors if there are enough guys. Of course we would have to agree on what blend, but that won't be an issue until we find out what we can do.

    Harris
    Posted 3 years ago #
  2. deathmetal

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    Good thinking. I hope it will work. Today's internet is kind of retarded so people are super-flaky, but there is an above-average group of good people at this forum, I think, which is a testament to Kevin and the mods showing expert judgment.

    "My own experience has been that the tools I need for my trade are paper, tobacco, food, and a little whiskey." -- William Faulkner

    The Metal Mixtures
    Posted 3 years ago #
  3. deuce26

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    If we can get a retailer on board I'm game.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  4. derfargin

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    I'd be game.

    There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary, and those who don't.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  5. cobguy

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    Great idea!

    However, you'd better start agreeing now as to which blends you'd want that many tins of.

    Finding 20-30 pipe smokers who all want 10 tins of the same blend could actually be a challenge.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  6. mcitinner1

    mcitinner1

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    I'm in...and my first suggestion for blends are Bengal Slices, and Escudo.

    Stan
    Godfrey Daniels!!
    The Plenipotent Key to Cope's Correct Card of the Peerless Pilgrimage to Saint Nicotine of the Holy Herb:
    Posted 3 years ago #
  7. jmatt

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    I'd be in for Va, VaPers. Most anything in the top ten of either category. And I'd probably buy 20 tins of a top cellarable blend.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  8. dread

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    I'm in. Any VA or VAPER would be good for me.

    ". . . I am the master of my fate:
    I am the captain of my soul."
    - INVICTUS
    Posted 3 years ago #
  9. hawky454

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    Put me down for 10. I just made some huge tobacco hauls otherwise I'd be down for more but 10 won't hurt any...

    Posted 3 years ago #
  10. hawky454

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    I'm in...and my first suggestion for blends are Bengal Slices, and Escudo.

    YES! I'm definitely okay with that. Those were the two I had in mind as well, it sucks that there are no bulk options for those...

    I know I'm new to the site and I totally understand if you all don't want to include me on the first haul. I'll be around for sometime and will be more than happy to wait around for the next haul... Sometimes I forget that I'm new here as I also partake in other forums that I have been a part of for much longer.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  11. buroak

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    Cigrmaster, I like your thinking. Actually, I love your thinking. The starting point, though, is probably finding enthusiasm for particular blends. Everybody loves the idea of getting their favorite blends on the cheap. The problem is getting folks to line up behind the same blends. You will also need money up front. I am treasurer for the Pipes Ephemeris Syndicate, and I would say my experience has been uniquely successful due to the nature of what the group is buying. Namely, niche items in the extreme. A small number of highly motivated individuals is pretty easy to organize. You are trying to organize people around buying a product everyone wants. That means bigger numbers and more problems with coordination.

    The other problem is getting the vendor(s) to accept your role as, essentially, a retailer.

    Life contains a particle of risk. - Allardyce T. Meriweather in Little Big Man
    Posted 3 years ago #
  12. jvnshr

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    That is a good idea. For sure there will be some online vendors that are going to get interested in this.

    Could we get 25% off, maybe less, maybe more?

    25%? Well, let's see but I don't think so. There is an MSRP (manufacturer's suggested retail price) for all brands so it is going to be impossible for vendors to make huge discounts.

    The problem is getting folks to line up behind the same blends.

    Why same blends? Sellers can arrange few blends to be bought I guess. For example, 2 tins of English blends, 2 tins of VaPers, etc. Or we can create a google document and vote for a blend or blends.

    Javan
    Posted 3 years ago #
  13. easterntraveler

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    Yes this would work. Would depend on the blend for me.

    Because straight is the gate and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life and few be there that find it.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  14. cosmicfolklore

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    I'd be curious as to how much lower an online vendor like smokingpipes would/could go, since they already offer the tobacco for almost wholesale pricing. At my B&M hangout, the owner has said whenever someone mentions online prices, he just can't compete, because smokingpipe/laudsi are the wholesalers, and the prices mentioned are almost exactly what he pays.
    But, we might be able to get them down a few dimes or nickels.

    Without knowing which blend, I could only say that I would be interested. I am guessing that you were thinking about a straight golden Virginia flake. Which ones are left that you haven't already hoarded?

    Michael
    Posted 3 years ago #
  15. jackswilling

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    What cobguy said.

    Great idea. But finding common ground/blends will be the challenge. Every time we have the "list your five favorite blends" threads, there is a wide variety.

    "Had his shooting been as good as his running, he might have given a better account of himself."
    James. C. Henderson
    Posted 3 years ago #
  16. perdurabo

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    The Power, nice thought. Go for 35% or more. Unless that's giving the stuff away.

    It's not my position nor want to help another man. It's his responsibility to help himself, as where he can learn to dig down deep enough to save himself. -I. Kidd
    Posted 3 years ago #
  17. clickklick

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    I'd be in but as others states, blend is a big issue. Maybe just a bulk order of different tins would net a discount?

    I'd be in significantly if that were the case! I have 3 or four blends that I would invest in significantly!

    Hobbyist Pipemaker - Carmette Pipes
    Posted 3 years ago #
  18. cigrmaster

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    It is nice to see so much interest right off the bat.

    I will say that it will have to be a flake, either VA,VAper,Vabur, from the list of the flakes that I smoke and if we can agree on something from it I will then try to beat up some poor retailer. It won't be my first time at this dance.

    If anyone is wondering why it has to be from my list there are a few reasons. One is I cannot tolerate red virginia's tobacco in my blends as it burns my tongue off as I have an alergy to it. Second, I dislike straight 100% burley blends such as Solani Aged Burley Flake. Next up I really cannot smoke anything with Latakia or Lakeland essence, sorry.

    If anyone feels that my list is to restrcitive, I totally understand as it is a very narrow one and I will be the first to admit it.
    I can understand it people choose to not particapate, it will not be held against you and you will be able to leave with out being shot at the door.

    Virginia Flakes:
    Fribourg&Treyer Cut Virginia Plug TR
    Fribourg and Treyer VintageTR
    Fribourg & Treyer Special Brown FlakeTR
    Wessex Campaign Brigade Dark FlakeTR
    Wessex Brown Virginia Flake TR
    Wessex Gold Virginia Flake TR
    Wessex Gold Brick TR
    Samuel Gawith Best Brown Flake
    Samuel Gawith full Virginia Flake
    Hamborger VeermasterTR
    Dunhill Flake TR
    Astley’s no. 44 Dark Flake TR
    Astleys 109TR
    John Aylesbury  Luxury Flake TR
    Rotary Navy CutTR
    Capstan Blue FlakeTR
    Brigham Klondike Gold TR
     
    Virginia/Perique Flakes
    EscudoTR
    Solani 633 TR
    Samuel Gawith St James Flake
    Dunhill Deluxe Navy RollsTR

    Virginia/Burley/Kentucky Flakes
    Solani Silver Flake TR
    Peterson Perfect Plug
    GL Pease NavigatorTR
    Petersons Irish Flake
    Peterson University Flake
    Esoterica  Stonehaven
    Mac Baren HH Old Dark Fired
    Wallace Flake TR
    Orlik Dark Strong Kentucky TR

    Aromatic flakes.

    Mac Baren Modern Virginia Flake TR
    Mac Baren Vanilla Creme Flake TR

    The TR next to a name means ready to smoke out of the tin with no drying time. Now that is just for me as I like my flakes on the moist side.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  19. cosmicfolklore

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    What about hitting up the wholesale distributor directly? Smokingpipes/Laudsi? I don't think that we could get the blends that they carry any more direct. And, I am certain that the manufacturers wouldn't even hear us out.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  20. cosmicfolklore

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    You must keep that list as a quick-click paste option, ha ha.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  21. cosmicfolklore

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    I am up for anything but Escudo, as it is the one that I have the most already stockpiled, but I would be most interested in Wessex Gold Brick.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  22. cigrmaster

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    cosmic, I am pretty sure that the agreements that mfgs and distributors have would not allow us to access them directly, but we can always ask. Yes I keep that stupid list in a file to click and paste, do you really think I would take the time to write it everytime for you marooons?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  23. cigrmaster

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    I also have Escudo callared real deep, but if the overwhelming majority was for it, I would agree, as for me what ever I don't smoke, can be sold for huge profits.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  24. badger

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    I'd be down for a Stonehaven group buy. Put me down for 10 bags.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  25. cosmicfolklore

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    Yeh, I would be shocked to death to find that a retailer could provide us with a price lower than smokingpipes. I have not been in a retailer yet that actually made money on tobacco. Mostly, they just offer it as a service with only a small percentage of increase, not even close to a keystone. Pipes and cigars is what keep the lights on. Pipe tobacco is just to keep us coming in.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  26. rhoadsie

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    If we're talking deep discounts as mentioned and a cellar worthy blend from that fantastic list, I'd be in for more than 10 (20, 30?) tins.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  27. clickklick

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    And, just that quickly, I'm out! Let me know if you get this going and can add others to the list. Thanks for trying though! I've been hanging out with latakia lately.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  28. jackswilling

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    Therein lies the problem. You listed around 35 suggestions and none of them are on my list. Not a big burly fan, don't mind a little red Virginia, but could live without it. And you will not consider a Latakia blend, but I can live without Latakia. I agree on the flake as a starting point.

    How about having C&D do a bright/yellow Virginia flake with a touch of Perique and a dose of some Oriental tobacco. A special order/run we could do on a yearly basis?

    I bet this would work.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  29. jmatt

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    I think the answer is, if we can get a retailer like PandC, SP, Cup'O, etc to do something, we will find enough people to make any given blend work. It could be as simple as Russ giving out a code to this forum for one blend a month.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  30. skraps

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    Interesting idea, but SP.com already offers pretty decent quantity discounts on most items. Take Escudo for example... if you purchase 25+ tins, they offer you a 10% discount on the per tin price.

    Just my opinion, but I think you would be hard pressed to get them to go lower than that. I suspect they are barely making any money on a $9.38 tin as it is.

    Good luck though. Will be interesting to see what you find out.

    "People are not made better by a briar. An idiot before smoking a pipe is still an idiot after smoking a pipe, they're just more likely to speak less drivel with something in their mouth. For that, all society should be grateful."

    - Bob Runowski
    Posted 3 years ago #
  31. condorlover1

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    Try talking to Standard Tobacco I am sure Dan could help you with something sizable!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  32. cosmicfolklore

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    Yeh, sure are a lot of lightweights on that list. Are you sure you didn't post you're daughter's shopping list? Ha ha!!

    Heck yeh Condor!! I call 30 plugs of War Horse!!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  33. clickklick

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    Dude! I'd buy a truckload of Smyrna and JC 1and2 !

    And by truckload I mean 10 tins of each or more depending on cost!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  34. sablebrush52

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    After reading this thread I'm reasonably convinced that you would better spend your time with a wall, a hammer, and nail, and some jello.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 3 years ago #
  35. derfargin

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    While the idea is a good one, the execution of it is difficult. At least going about it this way. The ol' adage "you can please some of the people some of the time" applies here.

    Probably the best course of action is to FIRST contact either P&C or Smokingpipes and see if a large bulk purchase on a blend is something they could either entertain, or accommodate. I would think P&C would be able to do something with the H&H line(my assumption Russ, keep me honest here) or Smokingpipes could do something with the C&D/Pease/Capt.Earl line due to their connection with Laudisi. It's a business and quantity is king for bulk purchases, which is the power of bulk buys. Quantity is also relative. A big retailer like them would might have a different definition of what a "large" order is.

    Now lets say we get 20 people wanting to buy 10 tins of X tobacco each. That's 200 tins, really not that much to a big retailer.(I don't have purchasing numbers from their business so I dont know it may be). There is a profit margin they all want to see, so we have to find out a number that's a win/win for both parties buyer/seller. Once you find that number, find out what blends that can be applied to. Get THAT list and go from there to the forums asking for people interested.

    How will this be paid for? Who's going to collect the funds and cut the check to the seller? How will purchase be be distributed to the interested parties? All questions that will need to be answered

    Bulk purchases benefit the seller when all they have to do is provide a large quantity of product to a single location. When they have to distribute it all, they have the overhead of doing so which eats in to profits/savings of the deal for all involved.

    The devil is in the details boys, picking the blend to purchase is actually the easy part.

    Now, I'm not trying to poo poo the idea, I'm just pointing out the realities of what you're looking to do. It can be done, but it requires some research and coordination.

    There was a thread on this forum 6 moths ago when Smokinpipes was asked to do a special run of Chenet's Cake in 1 lb. cans/blocks if there was enough interest. They came back and said they would do it, but said they were already working on releasing the Cellar Series in 8oz cans in the coming months. Everyone just decided to wait on the 1/2 lb cans.

    Which brings up another point, the majority of people on the internet are lazy, they'll always choose the path of least resistance.

    Anyway, this idea has potential, the "ducks just need lined up."

    Posted 3 years ago #
  36. orobusto

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    I don't know how low the internet stores can go on certain brands. A brick and mortar may be willing to take a minimal profit just to possibly get some auxillary business from the sale.

    Many non-cuban cigar manufacturers have a minimum price (MAP) which is why some auction sites can't offer them at auction anymore. I don't know if any pipe tobacco manufacturers have it also. I am also assuming here that the Cuban cigar vendors used in the group buys were grey market sites and more willing to give discounts rather than an official LDCH, if they weren't, I stand corrected.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  37. jpberg

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    Harris, I have an inside line on 5 pound bricks of Ennerdale. Let me know

    Posted 3 years ago #
  38. twoonefive

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    I'm in for whatever blend is decided on if this moves forward.

    Posted 3 years ago #
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    instymp

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    sablebrush52, lol, never heard the jello thing before! Will have to remember that.
    Cigar.. not making light of your inspiring suggestion. Good luck with the process.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  40. jamesrsmithjr

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    @derfargin; "How will purchase be be distributed to the interested parties?" My thoughts exactly.

    But that doesn't mean I won't be in, cellar deep my friends.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  41. mcitinner1

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    After reading this thread I'm reasonably convinced that you would better spend your time with a wall, a hammer, and nail, and some jello.

    Okay now...what do I do with the Jello??

    Posted 3 years ago #
  42. deathmetal

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    Clearly this sort of thing has worked with rarities. For regularly-available tobacco, it's unclear whether shipping would eat up any savings.

    Maybe as an alternate, convince a major retailer to offer a sale on 10-tin lots of a certain brand that more people should stockpile?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  43. jefff

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    I like the idea, but I smoke a rather narrow list of tobaccos and the logistics would be a problem.

    I just don't see how enough money could be saved to make it worth the effort.

    Keep in mind this and similar forums make up a very small percentage of pipe smokers.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  44. hawky454

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    I'm still in, if you'll have a newbie. My number one would be Escudo from your list and I'm very, very hesitant to buy anything from Samuel Gawith right now due to their Lakeland essence problem, so if you all decide to go that route I'm afraid i'll have to back out, I've already got burned on 250g of FVF.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  45. jackswilling

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    I doubt that any significant agreement will be arrived at as to what blend to get. And even if such an agreement were made, saving $20 on 10 tins is no stem-winder for me. I could care less about Escudo, let alone saving a few $$$ on 10 tins or 100 tins, assuming there is that much $$$ to be saved in the first place. If we are to abide by the parameters set by the O/P, then we get a bright Virginia flake. I say add a little Perique and some Orientals, and have C&D or even McClelland crank out the Pipes Magazine special blend once a year. Something along the lines of Tudor Castle. I would be in for 5 pounds.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  46. sjpipesmoker

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    I'm in.

    It sounds like if you can find a blend we have a lot of people that are willing to go in.

    Edit: saving money on 10 tins, Then pay for shipping. In the end the savings might not be all that good.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  47. fordm60

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    This is a great idea, but I can see already it is like herding cats. But for this to work perhaps you ask Condorlover1 for more information on his tobacco. To get different tobacco than what SToP has I would hit Russ O and/or GL Pease up and see what he/they thinks about this working. I have no idea if we can even work directly with the producer, likely some stupid law says we cannot, but again Dan, Russ O, and GL Pease are forum members that can answer all your questions in about 3 seconds. As I see it you have SToP, Russ, and Pease who can help answer all questions easily. But maybe I am wrong, I did have some hard landings LMAO!!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  48. deathmetal

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    We're thinking too small. If we buy YUGE, we can get Royal Yacht for $7 or less per tin. Come on, you know you want this.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  49. cosmicfolklore

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    Harris, where did you go? Get back here. Have you called anyone? Are we going to do this or not? Don't just tease us and walk away. Get up on that table and dance... I mean... um... :::cough cough:::

    What about a huge bulk order of Wessex Gold Bricks? This is one that I've tried, and love, but I haven't started stocking yet.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  50. jpmcwjr

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    Royal Yacht?? Why? There are better blends put forward by the gentlemen cited in fordm60's post! And it's good old Yankee Trade.

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  51. deathmetal

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    The joke was that it's a personal favorite. But, everyone should try it -- at least once. Actually, it took me several tries to appreciate it, so maybe a half-dozen times

    Posted 3 years ago #
  52. cosmicfolklore

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    Royal Yacht?? Why?

    I'm thinking that Harris isn't going to go for anything by GLP, SToP, nor Russ, since they don't make golden flue cured Virginias flakes that are on his list. ...and, we know how much Harris loves to suck down the Yacht.

    So, either he will take his bat and ball and go home, or we will have to play ball, ignoring all the latakiaphiles. They can get their own threads. They are free.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  53. deathmetal

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    The Yacht is like the vacation that comes to you. You just have to be receptive.

    Golden flue cured Virginias... talk about a phrase to set the pulse racing!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  54. cigrmaster

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    Ok guys, wanted to see how much interest and how many were not enamored with my list. If this were to happen, the retailer would ship to each individual, no need for any of us to have to deal with shipping 200 plus tins.

    Next objection, if you cannot find a blend on my list, then you are not worthy to participte. My list is the quintissential flake list on the entire planet, people from all over the world send me gifts for coming up with it. So pick a damn blend from it and like it.

    I want to see a show of hands with a blend, not other comments will be considered.

    Jesse, I tried nailing jello to a wall and it is really hard.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  55. mcitinner1

    mcitinner1

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    I'm easy...I have preferences on the list, but I will agree to any of them.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  56. cosmicfolklore

    Cosmic

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    Here's my hand showing...

    Posted 3 years ago #
  57. deathmetal

    deathmetal

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    Alright, you have some power of persuasion behind you... Irish Flake or Dunhill Navy Flake, that is the question?

    Although I maintain that Royal Yacht -- while not flaky in any way -- is the Prince among tobaccos.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  58. deathmetal

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    Cosmic, that hand looks 28 at the outside... you're doing something right. Must be the Royal Yacht.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  59. cosmicfolklore

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    Ha ha, yeh us redheads look 12 years old until we hit 50.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  60. cigrmaster

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    death, did you knot understand my last post? Pick a damn flake and stuff your Royal Yuck where the sun don't shine.

    cosmic, are you brain dead? Who wants to see a picture of your old mofo face, godamn methuselah.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  61. jpmcwjr

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    OK, I'll stop bitching and moaning and step up a bit, 10 tins of Escudo is what I'd buy, along with 5 tins of whatever VA flake gets the nod.

    Nailing to the wall: You might have better luck with vanilla pudding, but the trick is to "age" it until it hardens into a small puck, a month or two with home-made; a year or two with factory preservatives. Then get out the hammer n nails.....

    Posted 3 years ago #
  62. cigrmaster

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    Ok we have a winner, jpmcwjr understood what is needed for this to happen, well done.
    Thanks for the tip about the jello, can't wait to try your way.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  63. deathmetal

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    I did pick a damn flake -- let's call it Irish Flake.

    Now how do I get 400 lbs of it at a discount?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  64. cigrmaster

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    We have another winner, Death has chose and wants 400 lbs. So far it looks like Irish Flake is the leader.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  65. cosmicfolklore

    Cosmic

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    Umm, Wessex Gold Brick, or I'd concider whatever the concensus says. Ammount os going to depend on the price break. But in a straw poll, I'd be good for about 10+ bricks.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  66. mcitinner1

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    OK, I'll stop bitching and moaning and step up a bit, 20 tins of Escudo is what I'd buy

    Ten better

    Posted 3 years ago #
  67. hawky454

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    10 tins of Escudo for me...

    Posted 3 years ago #
  68. mcitinner1

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    Let's hear some thoughts about rectangular tins for the long haul. I've had two failed seals with them, and have all but quit buying them. I know they "usually" last years, but one or two failures is all it took for me. It really doesn't make sense to pay for tins and then jar up the contents. Can we stick with round tins?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  69. sallow

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    It would be nice to get Capstan blue flake for a regular tin price, and not pay a 50% premium.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  70. jefff

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    I suppose I would be in for the Escudo. I have not smoked a recent iteration of it but I used to love it. I'd be willing to cellar some on a bet that it will age well.

    Posted 3 years ago #

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