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Comparing Bulk Englishes

(34 posts)
  • Started 9 months ago by foursidedtriangle
  • Latest reply from mikestanley
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    foursidedtriangle

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    I was looking for the perfect bulk english to cellar. So far my thoughts, and what are yours? They are listed in order of my preference, best to worst.

    Star of the East - the ideal bulk English just overflowing with flavour
    Father Dempsey - very close to MM965 with a smoother taste
    Engine 99 - a bit milder and still very flavourful, the closest to all day English in bulk variety
    Super Balkan - not bad but came in very dry, is that your experience as well?
    Aromatic English - I found it to be a little too mild and bland, with the topping not adding anything really

    Posted 9 months ago #
  2. mikestanley

    mikestanley

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    If you ask me, GLPease blends in the 8oz and 16 oz tins are great. To me, they are good value because of the cost/oz. in my personal experience, they store very well. I’ve opened several from 3005. The tobacco is beginning to dry but in great condition. I then put some in 2 half pint jars and on larger jar. Once I smoke the two half pints, I’m usually ready for a change.

    Mike S.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  3. blendtobac

    blendtobac

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    That really depends on your preferences and how long you plan to cellar. If you like more Latakia-forward blends, bear in mind that the Latakia will soften as it ages. Blends with less Latakia and more Virginia will have more noticeable changes as they age.

    Russ

    Posted 9 months ago #
  4. lawdawg

    lawdawg

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    I have given this issue thought as well. One blend that I keep coming back to is Peter Stokkebye Balkan Supreme. It is just a good basic English blend, and seems forward on the orientals similar to the famed Balkan Sobranie (I've only smoked the new / current production). Balkan Supreme does not give the nuanced experience of finer English blends, but it is a good straight-forward English nonetheless.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  5. lordofthepiperings

    lordofthepiperings

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    I'm not a fan of English blends, but I have heard that they tend to get a little flat around 10yrs, so the ideal aging for them in most people's opinion is between 5-8 years.

    "The thinking man always smokes a Peterson." -Peterson of Dublin
    Posted 9 months ago #
  6. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    Super Balkan - not bad but came in very dry, is that your experience as well?

    Not at all. How dry was it? What shipped in (thickness of bag; retailer)?

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 9 months ago #
  7. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    I'm not a fan of English blends, but I have heard that they tend to get a little flat around 10yrs, so the ideal aging for them in most people's opinion is between 5-8 years.

    So, for a blend type about which you know little first hand, you "heard" some things, and then you quote "most people's opinions". How did you garner this consensus?

    Posted 9 months ago #
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    aldecaker

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    FWIW, my favorite bulk English is Peterson's Old Dublin. There's a lot of room for it to fade and still be quite strong, Lat-wise.

    A man who serves his country is a patriot. A man who serves his government is an employee. The two are not always the same thing.
    Posted 9 months ago #
  9. mso489

    mso489

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    I really like Super Balkan. You can add moisture, but I found the somewhat dry leaf kept in a jar remained perfectly smokable for many months, as long as it remained unsmoked. I like C&D Stratfordshire, Sutliff Lord Nelson, C&D Tuggle Hall, and PC Midown series Chestnut, to name a few. Chestnut is tub tobacco, not bulk, but moderately priced.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  10. civilwar

    civilwar

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    Arango: Balkan Supreme

    Posted 9 months ago #
  11. lawdawg

    lawdawg

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    Arango: Balkan Supreme

    I believe that Arango and Stokkebye's Balkan Supreme is the same blend. However, I cannot say with 100% certainty

    Posted 9 months ago #
  12. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    Concur.

    I'd add in "New Mix" by Kramer's.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  13. ben88

    ben88

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    10 to Midnight. Very Latakia forward blend. I find it a bit rough when fresh. A year in the jar improves it a lot. Also PS English Oriental Supreme, if you prefer a milder blend. Lancer Slices is another fantastic mix.

    Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch’entrate
    Posted 9 months ago #
  14. slowroll

    slowroll

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    As a lataholic, I would say you can't go wrong with SOTE, Engine 99 and Arango Balkan Supreme. They are among my favorites FWIW.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  15. spartan99

    spartan99

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    I have a decent amount of C&D Stratfordshire, Lane Crown Achievement, PS Proper English, and SG Squadron Leader cellared. I got my first batch of Crown Achievement right after the re-release. That one benefited the most from cellaring. It allowed the flavors to marry together.

    Grand Croupier Boneyard has taught me that it's almost impossible to screw up a medium English if you're using quality tobaccos.

    Posted 9 months ago #
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    oldgeezersmoker

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    I believe that Arango and Stokkebye's Balkan Supreme is the same blend. However, I cannot say with 100% certainty

    In the oast, RussO has verified in a similar thread that they are indeeed the same. Good choices IMO.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  17. woodsroad

    woodsroad

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    Having sampled a lot of vintage English blends back when we were creating the John Cotton line, I can tell you that Latakia blends do not cellar well past twenty years or so. However, I have some whole leaf Latakia from 1993 that is just spectacular. Orientals also tend to loose some of their aroma and taste. My suggestion is to cellar separate components and mix up your own on the fly. That way, you will be able to compensate somewhat as the different tobaccos change over time. It is damned near impossible to mess up blending your own English mixture. Just work in small batches, weigh everything and record your tasting notes so that you can repeat your victories and bury your mistakes.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  18. bluto

    bluto

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    Would you cellar whole leaf in the same methods as blend ?

    Leaving them whole ?

    “listen: there’s a hell
    of a good universe next door; let’s go”
    Posted 9 months ago #
  19. lawdawg

    lawdawg

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    Having sampled a lot of vintage English blends back when we were creating the John Cotton line, I can tell you that Latakia blends do not cellar well past twenty years or so. However, I have some whole leaf Latakia from 1993 that is just spectacular. Orientals also tend to loose some of their aroma and taste. My suggestion is to cellar separate components and mix up your own on the fly. That way, you will be able to compensate somewhat as the different tobaccos change over time. It is damned near impossible to mess up blending your own English mixture. Just work in small batches, weigh everything and record your tasting notes so that you can repeat your victories and bury your mistakes.

    Sounds like a great idea. Got any recommendations on where to buy and what to buy? Any recommendations on blending proportions? I am building my cellar for the long term, and would love to experiment with this.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  20. woodsroad

    woodsroad

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    Yes, that's what I do. I bag them up in vacuum-sealed Mylar, label, date and forget about them. Which reminds me, it's time to look for some more whole leaf.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  21. bluto

    bluto

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    Cool , I have some Latakia and other bits left over , good idea to leave them to age .

    Posted 9 months ago #
  22. woodsroad

    woodsroad

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    I don't mean to imply that I only cellar whole leaf. My suggestion is to cellar cut, processed tobacco, like Sutliff RC-1 and P&C's blending Oriental/Turkish stuff.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  23. bluto

    bluto

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    Ok , raw tobacco leaf , cut and sealed in Mylar or mason jars.

    No casings?

    Posted 9 months ago #
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    foursidedtriangle

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    Not at all. How dry was it? What shipped in (thickness of bag; retailer)?

    Smoking pipes, and just regular plastic zip bag. I do live far outside US and mail takes 3 weeks to get here (regular shipping).

    By cellar I meant buy 1-2 pounds and jar it, put it in a cool closet, smoking it as it ages over the course of next few years

    Posted 9 months ago #
  25. woodsroad

    woodsroad

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    Ok , raw tobacco leaf , cut and sealed in Mylar or mason jars.
    No casings?
    The blending components: Virginia, Oriental, Turkish, Latakia. Some have casings and flavorings (most Virginia's do) some do not. You could make a fine English blend with what P&C offers:


    Posted 9 months ago #
  26. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    How dry was it? What shipped in (thickness of bag; retailer)?

    Smoking pipes, and just regular plastic zip bag. I do live far outside US and mail takes 3 weeks to get here (regular shipping).

    Even within one retailer, bag thickness can vary a bunch. But three weeks in a thin-ish bag in who knows what conditions (temp, humidity) might dry quite a bit.

    But how dry is dry? Not a facetious question, and maybe unanswerable.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  27. seanv

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    I’ve enjoyed lane medal of valor a lot. Also like black bayou mist from f&k I think it is

    Posted 9 months ago #
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    foursidedtriangle

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    But how dry is dry? Not a facetious question, and maybe unanswerable.

    You know when you open the bag/jar and immediately smell latakia, it is dry enough that you barely smell anything.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  29. smittyd

    smittyd

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    I really enjoy Peterson's Balkan Delight.

    Brothers Of The Black Frigate
    Posted 9 months ago #
  30. ericusrex

    ericusrex

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    Lancer's slices all the way! Additionally, I find Peretti's Oriental #40 to be a touch more satisfying than Star of the East.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  31. crashthegrey

    crashthegrey

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    I’ve opened several from 3005.
    Mike Stanley has taught us a valuable lesson. The Deeming Regulations won't be as bad as we feared. I wonder what tobacco from the future tastes like.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  32. judcole

    Jud

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    I basically follow Russ' advice on this. I make no attempt whatsoever to cellar lat blends. I won't attempt to suggest blends to buy in large quantities, since it is obvious the OP and I expect different things from our blends.

    Thought in the early morning, solace in time of woes,
    Peace in the hush of the twilight, balm ere my eyelids close
    Rudyard Kipling
    Posted 9 months ago #
  33. blackadderlxx

    blackadderlxx

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    I really enjoy Father Dempsey. Sutliff 965 match is really good too.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  34. mikestanley

    mikestanley

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    Ok, the secret is out. I am from the future! Lol
    Mike S.

    Posted 9 months ago #

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