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Charatan introduces Dunhill blends

(27 posts)
  • Started 4 months ago by philairfoil
  • Latest reply from sablebrush52
  1. philairfoil

    philairfoil

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    Got a Email...

    https://www.gqtobaccos.com/charatan-dunhill-replacements/

    Seems only for Europeans, but I'm hoping they will come to the US.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  2. btp79

    btp79

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    Not sure I see much difference between that and the "match" blends. But at least they're trying.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  3. carolinachurchwarden

    carolinachurchwarden

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    Hold on....I'm still laughing and coughing up a lung over the *Smoking kills - quit now* banner streamed across the cover of the tin. I've other warnings, but not that one, yet.

    Now as for the tobacco...I agree, don't see too much difference in the other match blends. Only way to know for sure would be to smoke them up and see.

    "If you can't send money, send tobacco." - George Washington

    Posted 4 months ago #
  4. philairfoil

    philairfoil

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    Yea...the two companies where joined at the hip for some time...maybe they would have a 'in' with the blender, but probably not.

    I'll just buy some 'white spot' pipes and go back to smoking cherry flavored weeds.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  5. woodsroad

    woodsroad

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    Who actually makes these blends?

    Posted 4 months ago #
  6. pipesmokingtom

    pipesmokingtom

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    Wow, everyone is trying to get on this gravy train. This is getting to be like Elvis impersonators.

    "We have an unspoken, mutual understanding to ignore the things we hate about each other so we can continue to enjoy the things we love about each other."
    Posted 4 months ago #
  7. carolinachurchwarden

    carolinachurchwarden

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    Who actually makes these blends?

    Well, the ones by "Charatan" look like it says something about Tor Imports? Never heard of them before. The only other ones I know of are the ones that Sutliff has been producing.

    Posted 4 months ago #
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    oldgeezersmoker

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    In all likelihood, STG owns the recipes and licenses the names from Dunhill. Nothing precludes them from making say, London Mixture, and putting it in a tin under another name. The labels I have seen say Made in the EU for House of Edgeworth. House of Edgeworth is a private Swiss company that owns a lot of tobacco trademarks. Edgeworth tobacco is made by Lane, an affiliate of STG. STG has a plant in Denmark, an EU member. An educated guess: These are not match blends, they are identical. Of course, smokers may never believe this, and it may or may not be acknowledged in marketing under the new name. My guess is it won't be.

    Posted 4 months ago #
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    foursidedtriangle

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    There are so many copies/matches maybe they should do McClelland instead.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  10. npod

    npod

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    These are not match blends, they are identical. Of course, smokers may never believe this, and it may or may not be acknowledged in marketing under the new name.

    Neal
    Posted 4 months ago #
  11. mso489

    mso489

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    The Dunhill blend people left the money on the table. I presumed they'd sell or license the blends. In any case, the money isn't going to stay on the table, so we'll see who picks it up. Seems like a bad, or several bad business decisions here.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  12. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    In all likelihood, STG owns the recipes and licenses the names from Dunhill. Nothing precludes them from making say, London Mixture, and putting it in a tin under another name.

    Well, it's not quite so clear. Evidently STG either sold or licensed the blends to K&K, and BAT filed suit, claiming that STG did not have the right to do that. Hence, the recently released clones by K&K under the McConnell Heritage label are in legal limbo for the moment.

    Edgeworth tobacco is made by Lane, an affiliate of STG. STG has a plant in Denmark, an EU member. An educated guess: These are not match blends, they are identical. Of course, smokers may never believe this, and it may or may not be acknowledged in marketing under the new name. My guess is it won't be.

    There are two companies offering an Edgeworth match, Lane and Sutliff. Jiminks knows a bit about these blends and might be able to speak to their origins.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 4 months ago #
  13. philairfoil

    philairfoil

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    I would think that the executives of Dunhill would want to monetize the recipes of these time-honored blends, no matter what.

    I can see them wanting to get out from under the 'curse' of tobacco, but money?

    Looked at what Dunhill sells now, upscale...$1000 sweatshirts and $2000 shoes...(the unique lighter is a affordable $470 though).

    I bet we will see someone come out with these blends and with a nudge and wink, it'll be the same as it ever was...mostly.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  14. woodsroad

    woodsroad

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    Lane makes an Edgeworth clone. They do not use the Edgeworth name. AFAIK, there is no connection between STG and House of Edgeworth. Any speculation that the Charatan-branded Dunghill clones are the same thing that STG was producing for BAT is just that: speculation.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  15. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    Licensing arrangements over the name(s), ownership of the recipes, distribution rights, contracts with suppliers- all these things are unknown to most of us, and I bet no one here knows enough about all the parts.

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 4 months ago #
  16. woodsroad

    woodsroad

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    ^^^^
    This.

    But Jesse seems to have done his homework.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  17. jiminks

    JimInks

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    In regard to the Edgeworth matches: When ERR was discontinued, Sutliff's master blender Carl McAllister recreated it, and in my opinion, was very successful The only real difference I note is the original had a little deeper molasses flavor. I'd say it's 95% of what the original was.

    In the case of Lane, they are using the original formula, but it doesn't taste quite the same. The cut of the tobacco is a little different, and there's a little more cocoa taste than molasses, whereas the original and Sutliff match flavor had/have less cocoa than molasses. Why is it different? Lane uses different sources for the tobaccos and the flavorings, the latter accounting for the difference in the ratio of cocoa to molasses.

    So, even if a company has the recipes for the Dunhill blends, if they don't use the same sources, the blends will not be 100% accurate.

    Posted 4 months ago #
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    greenmtnsmoke

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    McConnell is making all the Dunhill blends including flake. Look at the HU website under McConnell Heritage Blends.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  19. didache

    didache

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    I bought three tins of the new 'No 10' mixture which is a copy/clone of London Mixture. It was delivered yesterday.

    I've had two bowls of it - not bad as a copy although, not having JimInk's flavour memory, I really would need to pop a tin of London Mixture and compare side by side.

    The one thing that struck me is how wet it is out of the tin - usually Dunhills are ok out of the tin but not this one.

    Mike

    "Pipe-smokers spend so much time cleaning, filling and fooling with their pipes, they don't have time to get into mischief." - Bill Vaughan
    Posted 4 months ago #
  20. wyfbane

    wyfbane

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    No dog in this fight. I have one old-ass tin of original Charatan tobacco, but it's an aro so I likely won't open it.

    I honestly didn't think they still tinned tobacco.

    Live and learn. We need to get a forum member stationed at Menwith hill so they can ship the stuff APO back to the states...

    Posted 4 months ago #
  21. ssjones

    ssjones

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    https://www.gqtobaccos.com/pipe-tobacco/charatan-1992-pipe-tobacco-50g-tin-dunhill-965-mixture/

    The 1992 sounds interesting. All the other My Mixture 965 matches lack the Brown Cavendish component, but 1992 has it.

    Al

    Posted 4 months ago #
  22. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    I honestly didn't think they still tinned tobacco.

    They don't. It's just a name tacked onto a tin.

    McConnell is making all the Dunhill blends including flake. Look at the HU website under McConnell Heritage Blends.

    Except that the blends being offered aren't the same as the Dunhill branded STG blends. The K&K version of Navy Rolls has a black Cavendish center, which Navy Rolls did not have. Regarding these, last I heard, K&K had been forced to stop distribution due to a suit filed by BAT. So if you want to pick up these clones, now one among several clones of the Dunhill branded STG blends, you might want to make haste.

    Give it a few more weeks. There should be even more clones, Dunhillesque versions of Mixture 79 and Dan Tobacco's Holly's Non Plus Ultra.

    It you really, actually, want to get close to something Dunhill, try Sutliff's Elizabethan Match, or Peter Heinrich's Curly Block. Pretty close to the Murray's product, which is the original clone.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  23. mso489

    mso489

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    sable, ha-ha, "the original clone" -- yes, that's where we're at. Pleasingly wacky. Something to ponder while we puff. I'm sure we all look forward to that Dunhill/Mixture 79 blend.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  24. warren

    warren

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    Clones? The term promises a sameness. i think "wannabes" is closer to what is being produced. Clone might be applicable to the Dunhill labeled blends of 80's. They had an eerie similarity to the blends of the 60's which had similarities to, I presume, various Dunhill blends from earlier times. The tastes morph over time as the base ingredients subtly change. I'm sure none of the Dunhill blends I've smoked. while similar, were really only distant cousins to the original of the early 1900's.

    I am not saying the "wannabes" are not grand tasting blends. I'm sure many will be happy with some of them. I hope to be. Every successful blend has, by necessity, found a few palates it satisfies.

    A man without a shillelagh is a man without an expedient.
    Posted 4 months ago #
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    oldgeezersmoker

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    Evidently STG either sold or licensed the blends to K&K

    Source for that?

    From what I have read, K & K appears to have been on a project of its own. But as is the usual practice in this industry, transparency to the end consumer is not of any great importance. It does seem that the K & K project is dead (the Heritage Blends appear to have been dropped from their website), though who killed it is not so clear to me. Both the recipe owner (STG) and the trademark owner (Richemont? BAT?) would appear to me to have independent grounds to contest K & K's marketing of these blends. But I have not been able to find any link to any litigation or reliable report of same except forum scuttlebutt. A letter from a law firm might be all it took. Compared to the 3 names I mentioned above, K&K is a small fish, and small fish in an industry dominated by giant multinational companies know how to swim away.

    If I had any tins of the K & K Heritage Blends, I would hang on to them, sealed or empty. They might be real collectibles.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  26. bradical

    bradical

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    This video might shed some additional insight into what's going with the Dunhill blends: Pipe Club of London February 2019 Meet

    The video starts at 20:51 where the Tor executive introduces himself and begins explaining the situation.

    Don't go chasing waterfalls.
    Posted 2 months ago #
  27. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    Thanks for the video! Pretty interesting. The Charatan blends are clones made by a German Blender and not from any pre-existing recipe.

    Both the recipe owner (STG)

    Source for that yourself. Assuming that BAT supplied recipes to STG for making these dratted blends why would they give up control and ownership of them?

    As for my source regarding the issues with McConnell, which apparently are over as people report that the McConnell Heritage versions are available for purchase, he's in the trade and prefers not to be named.

    In any event, a recipe is only a starting point. Different crops, sources, pipelines, factories, processing, etc, make for different results. Any recipe has be be rejiggered based on the palate of the blender and his crash dummies, to arrive at a successful clone.

    Enjoy your clones of clones of clones of clones.

    Posted 2 months ago #

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