Charatan Authentic Pipes: Can Their Image be Rehabilitated?

Scholarly article, Buroak. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. In fact It's the best thing I've read in an age - thanks for this.
You've inspired me to go research and read some more about this great brand - a good thing to occupy me on this exceptionally frosty but beautiful morning.
I'm sorry I can't add anything to the discussion regarding the line you're interested in, but I'm sure some 'Buffs' will be able to in due course - I do, however, look forward to learning some more about this great brand, and this line in particular.
I don't think we have enough 'focused' posts at times - so, I hope you do many more in a similar vein.

A great article, and hopefully a few forum members will dig through their mountains of pipes to add further information and make this a thread that pops up from time to time.

You should bring this up at the Charatan Collectors Group meeting in Chicago next spring. I know there are a few guys who would just love to discus this! 8O

Great missive, Buroak. Your focus on the particular "Authentic" line made for easy reading and was a great idea. You taught me a few things I never knew about the Charatan Authentic line of pipes.
Best,
Pipestud

Great article! Keep hunting! As you amass more specimens and more references you will see the picture emerge.
If you have a reference library near you, check to see if they have access to the British Tobacco Industry's Journal Tobacco, or Tobacco World. You may find references to the Authentic line that will place it in time, and possibly more. There is more hard info out there than many of us realize.

Buroak,

Great information, I really enjoyed reading about the Authentic line, and only wish there was more info out there.

Rob

I use to hang out at the Lane Ltd. store on 42nd street, in the mid 1950s. I bought 3-4 new Charatans from them. They were all beautiful pieces of briar, masterfully made. And they all tasted of the red stain Charatan used at that time. They were highly over rated. I do not recall what happened to them but do not miss them.

There is a Charatan's Authentic on eBay now that caused me to see if there was more information on this mysterious (to me) grade, and bingo, I found this thread. I hope I have not violated any rules by posting a link to the auction, I am in no way affiliated with the owner/seller and I no longer consider myself a collector in any respect, though in the 1980's I owned Charatan's that won ribbons.
First, I am shocked that any real reliance is placed on the Ryan article. It was controversial when published. The author was a knowledgeable Charatan's collector, but there were other equally knowledgeable collectors who would not have agreed with much of the speculation that article contains. I have glanced at the more recent Italian article, but since I only own one Charatan's at this time and disposed of my literature collection over 15 years ago, I have no sound basis to review it.
Second, if it is accepted that Dunhill acquired Lane in 1982, I can say with absolute certainty that the Authentic line is a product that was produced pre- Dunhill, though I cannot say with any degree of certainty whether or not production of that line continued after 1982. I became a customer of Royal Cigar at Five Points in downtown Atlanta in 1979. I very quickly became fascinated with Charatan's, and was fortunate enough to have the disposable income to buy them. Royal had an annual Charatan's show, where you could get 10% off a huge (back then) assortment of Charatan's that came in big boxes straight from Lane. I was there at least twice when they opened the boxes.
I used the word mysterious in connection with the Authentic grade, above. At those sales, say from 1980-1982, I distinctly remember seeing perhaps 5 or 6 Authentics. They were obviously new old stock at the time. They had tiny dings from shop wear, and the stems showed residue from old price stickers being peeled off and new ones affixed. They were priced then as Perfections, though they did not appear in any current price list that Royal had. I almost bought a 481. I moved my office from Downtown Atlanta in early 1983.
I have since scoured many price lists and other sources and can not for the life of me recall seeing any mention of this grade, pre or post lane, pre or post Dunhill, etc. I also can not exclude the possibility that, as noted, pipes bearing this grade were not produced post 1982. Dunhill owned the rights until they didn't, and if they wanted to stamp them "Shorty's Bar and Grill, Tuscaloosa, Alabama" they could have done so. I saw a few of these at shows in the later 80's, but don't really recall much interest in them.
The pipe on eBay now, I believe, would have been considered later production, whether pre or post 1982, simply from the size. I had several 42 shapes in Selected and Supreme over the years, and the Authentic under discussion is larger than those, at least in my memory. Dogmatic statements will get you in trouble with Charatan's, so take it with a grain of salt, but if you have a 42 in Executive or better, measure the bowl height and compare it to what is up now. In the 80's, most if not all Charatan's collectors would have said that pipes that large were not products of the era when Charatan's Giants (42,43,44 shape numbers) were featured in Charatan's price lists, shape charts, etc. Whether they would have been further differentiated as pre or post 1982 is something that wasn't on my radar screen
Where and how many Charatan's were produced after 1982 may not be that relevant a question anyway. In the United States, at least, inflation and currency movements had a dramatic impact on the pipe market. Perhaps someone like Hagley can consult his literature collection and give us some history, but I think the difference between 1973 and 1983 pricing for, say, a Charatan's Special would be illustrative. Very simply put, the distribution channels in the US were clogged up with Charatan's. I have been told that many of the private label Tinderbox pipes that no one disputes were made by Charatan's were not in any respect seconds. The 1988 decision by Dunhill to x out the remaining stock of Charatan's was simply a reflection of market realities - there was only so much interest in top of the line English pipes. I saw a lot of x outs, and the overwhelming majority of those pipes were new old stock. Some had a more Danish look to them, and the speculation was that they were more recent. I recall a discernible difference in stain, as well.
This post has taken way too much space to get to a point - dating Charatan's is every bit the challenge people say it is. The pipe that started this train of thought could absolutely be from before 1982, but maybe not. My own opinion is that it is, but from the tail end of the pre 1982 independent existence of Lane. As far as the US market is concerned, though, most of what we saw pre 1988 had been around for a while, and I personally saw a relatively small number of pipes that I considered recently made in the years between 1983-1988.
Mention is made in this thread of someone interviewing people who would no more about this topic. If they are still around, Gene Thompson and Frank Blue were with Lane in Atlanta through at least the first Dunhill era.
Thanks for indulging this stroll down memory lane.

@Hagley, I last saw Frank and Gene Thompson at an RTDA when it was held in Dallas, I think. I was there on other business,I stayed an extra day, and Joyce White of Royal Cigar got me in. Date escapes me, other than it was sometime in the 90's. They were definitely involved with Lane pre and post Dunhill. I ran into Frank at one of the Richmond shows, but can't recall whether that was pre or post the Dallas RTDA. Thanks for the compliment.

I seem to recall the Authentic quality when I worked at the factory in the 1970s. I think it was one of those qualities that sort of slipped away rather like the Rarity at that time.

When I read the Ivy Ryan's article for the first time 12 months ago, I struggled to find any real commonality there. It was as though she had seen a few pipe factories and things started to get muddled. 'Auld Eddy' - who is Auld Eddy? I asked Barry Jones the other day if there was a craftman there called Auld Eddy. Barry worked at Charatans from 1959-1978 - nearly twenty years and never heard of this man. Another thing I have never understood - Prescot Street? The Charatan Factory was at 19-21 Mansell Street which is about two hundred yards from Prescot Street. Barry did not know of it as a factory. It was a warehouse which stored briar and some machinery. Another thing is that My father remained Managing Director of Charatans right up until Dunhill bought out Lane Limited. The final day was on a Friday and my father and the Dunhill descision makers were on a special phone system to New York negotiating the final settlement figure. Discussions went on into the night (English time) and just as they were finalising the deal it was the 'end of the working day' in New York. Dunhills tried to get Lane to finalise the next day, but as it was the Sabbath,this was unacceptable so the whole deal was put on hold until the following Monday. This was in 1977-1978? I think. By November 1978 the Tilshead Pipe Co was operational and my father had opened his own Pipe and tobacco store in Salisbury.

I own 20 charatans most from the70s no authentic nor do I recall any being shown at the three shops in Detroit area I frequented. Shel

@Kenbarnes, Rarity was another grade that seemed to be mysterious to those of us in the U.S. Deluxe was also a grade that we weren't used to seeing very often.
@ssjones, I have not followed this forum enough to know the relative interests of the members, but when I was last active in the late 90's the interest in higher grade Charatan's was fairly strong. A decent Selected or Supreme would generate a good offer, cash or trade. My impression from just he last few months is that this is not nearly as true, though the demand for grades Special and below seems stronger than it was then. Many of the classic Charatan shapes, the Gilpin, Ton, Banker,Skater, etc. have never been equaled, IMHO, by any other maker and are seldom encountered in grades above Special. That the straight grain high grades we all lusted after seem to be (relatively speaking)languishing now takes some getting used to for an old geezer, but the lower grades were always worthy smokes- quality briar, no fills, decent size, good finishes - and it is good to see they seem to be appreciated today