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Cavdendish = Aromatic?

(35 posts)
  • Started 3 years ago by sjfine
  • Latest reply from gloucesterman
  1. sjfine

    sjfine

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    Does the mere inclusion of Cavendish an aromatic make?

    Cavendish is a process, I know, and an aromatic is topped, right? But since there are so many crossovers, I wonder what the purists think.

    Posted 3 years ago #
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    aldecaker

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    In my opinion, no. My Mixture 965 includes cavendish, as does PS English Luxury, Old Dublin, etc. I wouldn't consider those aromatics at all. I think people automatically associate cav with aros due to a lot of the inexpensive drugstore blends being cavendish goopers.

    A man who serves his country is a patriot. A man who serves his government is an employee. The two are not always the same thing.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  3. deathmetal

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    Does the mere inclusion of Cavendish an aromatic make?

    I guess the simple answer would be: if it has a heavy top flavoring.

    Aromatic generally means tobaccos with flavors other than tobacco which are predominant in the blend.

    I make a category, semi-aromatics, for tobaccos like Royal Yacht, Orlik Golden Sliced, Prince Albert and so on which have complementary flavors that do not overthrow the taste of the leaf.

    When people who hate aros are talking about aros, they are referring to any tobacco with a cute, quaint name and mixture of flavors which are so strong, and the humectant and dye so visible, that they could as well be applied to lawn clippings for the same effect.

    Like junk food makes the original food item irrelevant, aros of this type make the tobacco irrelevant. They are the 1950s mania for a "mild" smoke taken to 1980s levels of industrial absurdity.

    "My own experience has been that the tools I need for my trade are paper, tobacco, food, and a little whiskey." -- William Faulkner

    The Metal Mixtures
    Posted 3 years ago #
  4. gloucesterman

    gloucesterman

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    Cavendish is also a cut. There are a number of blends that contain unflavored Cavendish so its inclusion does not automatically make a blend an aromatic.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  5. cosmicfolklore

    Cosmic

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    Latakia is technically a cavendish. A lot of Virginias are also cavendish. I think that many people misunderstand or confuse qualities of these catagories with the process. Cavendish does not have to have added flavor. Casing is the addition of a carbohydrate to the leaf, almost all have some, but you may or may not notice it, depending on your understanding of the difference. Topping is what makes an aromatic, even if it doesn't have a noticabale flavoring. Now, the qualities of each of these can make it so that it is hard to tell what catagory it fits into. A cavendish or casing can be stronger than a topped aro. Think Luxury Twist Flake (Virginia Cavendish)

    And, an aromatic can be less flavored. Think a light rum topping.

    Now, if you want to hate a whole category, such as all aros, you just may find one of your favorites in the list. Or, you could just hate things that have certain qualities, which would probably better fits the way we think in terms of smell and flavors.

    Michael
    Posted 3 years ago #
  6. cosmicfolklore

    Cosmic

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    Cavendish is also a cut.

    Really? What is a Cavendish cut?

    Posted 3 years ago #
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    frozenchurchwarden

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    McClelland Deep Hollow and Frog Morton's Cellar are examples of aromatics with no Cavendish.
    Ten Russians also contains Cavendish and is definitely not an aromatic, in that case it's more like putting spacers between your dynamite.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  8. cosmicfolklore

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    Actually, it is my understanding that Deep Hollow is a Virginia Cavendish like LTF and not an aromatic at all. However, like I said above it can have the qualities of being an aromatic but the flavor don't come from a topping, but the casing.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  9. cosmicfolklore

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    But, if you like Deep Hollow, give Grey Havens a try. It's an interesting non-aro that has a Virginia Cavendish as well and is a VaPer. It muddies up the whole category thing even further, ha ha.

    Posted 3 years ago #
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    aldecaker

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    I must have missed the boat on Latakia "technically" being a cavendish. I didn't think Latakia was pressed before the smoke was applied, and I didn't know it was allowed to ferment. ?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  11. cosmicfolklore

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    You are right. When I went back and checked the source I was pulling from - what-is-cavendish I realized that I had misread the first sentence of the second paragraph. But, cavendishes don't necessarily have to be pressed. And, there is a spot on the cavendish cut. So, that it explains that.

    Posted 3 years ago #
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    frozenchurchwarden

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    Crap I forgot what Deep Hollow looks like, I guess there is some Cavendish pressed Virginia in there. I'm pretty sure all the black leaf in FMC is Latakia though.

    Posted 3 years ago #
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    aldecaker

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    Good link, Cosmic. I liked Russ' last line, "Who am I to argue against more than 90% of all pipe guys"? Well, more qualified than me, that's for damn sure!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  14. cosmicfolklore

    Cosmic

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    Crap I forgot what Deep Hollow looks like, I guess there is some Cavendish pressed Virginia in there

    It is entirely made up of a Virginia cavendish, like Luxury Twist Flake.
    If you saw the twisted ropes that I made up in my post "Cosmic Crop" the rope I made is now a Cavendish, as I let it steam for a whole day.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  15. chasingembers

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    Black Frigate, and Pegasus both have unsweetened black cavendish, and neither are aromatic at all.

    I like coffee exceedingly.
    - H. P. Lovecraft
    Posted 3 years ago #
  16. gloucesterman

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    Cosmic, to answer your question;

    "The word "Cavendish' when applied to pipe tobacco seems to intrigue the American pipe smoker. It is also a confusing word probably because Cavendish is a description of both a type of pipe tobacco and a manner in which tobacco is cut."
    All About Tobacco, Milton M. Sherman, 1970

    Posted 3 years ago #
  17. sjfine

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    Russ's article explained a lot, but confused the issue for me even more.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  18. mso489

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    What Cosmic said. I occasionally mix equal parts of Virginia and burley with a healthy pinch of black Cavendish, which happens to have a slight rum flavor, but the taste when mixed is more English than aromatic, and I'd notice because I mostly smoke non-aros. If I had non-flavored Cavendish on hand, I use it.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  19. cobguy

    Darin

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    The only kind I use for blending is an unflavored Cavendish made from Green River Burley.

    This softens and mellows stronger blends and seems to slow down the burn rate as well.

    A small amount goes a long way as too much results in a metallic taste similar to pencil lead for me.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  20. deathmetal

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    The question seems to be, then, "Is a merely stoved/sweetened/steamed Va or Burley necessarily an aromatic?"

    Posted 3 years ago #
  21. cosmicfolklore

    Cosmic

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    Deathmetal, they're not officially an aromatic, unless it is "topped" with a flavor of some sort. But, does one of those have qualities of an aromatic? Yes, to me Modern Virginia, LTF, and Dan's Liberty are cased Virginias that could easily be mistaken for aromatics, but they are not officially aros. Does that make sense?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  22. gloucesterman

    gloucesterman

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    To reinforce the point,
    Sherman states;

    "Most manufactures spray aromatics on the tobacco after the blend has been manufactured..."

    As a result one can infer that casing sauce is not what makes an aromatic but rather the "topping" applied at the end of the blending process.
    All that said most people think an aromatic is tobacco that has been flavored which as we can see is not really correct.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  23. dmcmtk

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    For some more info on Cavendish, see Arno's blog post here,

    https://dutchpipesmoker.wordpress.com/2013/03/25/candy-cavendish/

    Dave
    Duke Street Irregular
    Posted 3 years ago #
  24. gloucesterman

    gloucesterman

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    dmcmtk, that guy should be ashamed of himself. Most of the article was exact quotes from Sherman's book and not a single quotation mark. That takes BALLS.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  25. arno665

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    dmcmtk, that guy should be ashamed of himself. Most of the article was exact quotes from Sherman's book and not a single quotation mark. That takes BALLS.

    And my balls are HUGE! Like in the AC/DC song Big Balls. But yes, you are right, most of it comes from Nate Sherman's excellent book. There, you got me. It is one of the main sources for my tobacco knowledge.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  26. arno665

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    It is Milton Sherman.. Nate Sherman.... So in other blogposts you will also find pieces coming from that book. And I am not ashamed of using them. I want my blogposts to be the best I can possibly get them with all the info I can find. If I had to quote everyone I better can make a standard sentence in every blogpost, something like: "All of this comes in one way or another from people like GL Pease, Russ Ouellette and Andreas Mund and books like All About Tobacco." I am just a humble non-commercial amateur blogger, not a professional writer who has to mention the source of everything he writes. Well at least that is how I think about it..

    Posted 3 years ago #
  27. oldreddog

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    Balls to the wall,Accept,Arno.

    Whoops thought this was the metalhead thread.

    Killing me won't bring back your apples.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  28. arno665

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    Balls to the wall,Accept,Arno.

    Whoops thought this was the metalhead thread.

    One of my favourite songs!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  29. oldreddog

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    Great album too.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  30. arno665

    arno665

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    Yup ^^ Head Over Heels, Turn Me On, Guardian of the Night I only always thought the cover looked a bit.. ehmm.. Gay..

    Posted 3 years ago #
  31. oldreddog

    oldreddog

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    Jumping Judas Priest, I don't know what you mean about the cover.....

    Posted 3 years ago #
  32. arno665

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    Posted 3 years ago #
  33. jpmcwjr

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    If I had to quote everyone I better can make a standard sentence in every blogpost, something like: "All of this comes in one way or another from people like GL Pease, Russ Ouellette and Andreas Mund and books like All About Tobacco." I am just a humble non-commercial amateur blogger, not a professional writer who has to mention the source of everything he writes. Well at least that is how I think about it..

    That would be a good start. Plus, verbatim quotes should really be attributed. That's how I think about it!

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  34. cosmicfolklore

    Cosmic

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    Actually, copyright laws have just tightened up this last year. I was reading in the paper that a local teacher here was sued for five thousand for including a few sentences in a hand-out. Even in a research paper you can only directly quote someone for a very limited amount of sentences. You can paraphrase and then give credit. But, unless you just have piles of cash ready to burn or a greasy scumbag lawyer on retainer, I wouldn't even chance it. I would contact the author or his estate and ask for a letter stating that you have permission, and post that.

    The problem comes when someone uses your blog as a reference giving you credit for these ideas and words. Because it looks like these are your ideas and your words. Then it would be very easy for it to get into the public domain that you originated all of this. Then the publisher will come at you with a vengeance.
    But, YMMV

    Posted 3 years ago #
  35. gloucesterman

    gloucesterman

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    Taking credit for someone's else's work is plagiarism, whether done by professional or armature. The added time and effort it takes to note the author is not, nor has it ever been sufficient justification for failing to do so. It's just shoddy journalism at best. If you want to be a writer, honor the rules of good journalism.

    Posted 3 years ago #

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