C&D - Time For Some Focus?

peckinpahhombre · Jun 21, 2014

Ok, this post is sure to be viewed by some as controversial and, perhaps, even heretical.
I have nothing against C&D. In fact, I think they make some very fine blends, a few of which I cellar in some quantity. However, it is also true that they are the least represented major brand in my cellar, and I know I can't be the only one for whom this is true.
In my view, their entire tobacco line is disjointed and needs focus. The last time I looked, they had over 200 (!) different blends, many of which, I would suggest, are largely ignored by pipe smokers. One might even suggest that they take a scatter gun approach to blending - they seem to commonly introduce a new blend with some subtle difference from an old blend, perhaps throw in a new ingredient or change the proportion of an existing one, and then offer it for sale under a different cute and catchy little name.
The problem I see is that they seem to have so many average blends, that they are unable to concentrate their efforts on developing show-stopping, brand-defining, blends. They appear to be slouching toward mediocrity - a jack of all trades, yes, but a master of nothing.
I appreciate that one man's Mixture 79 is another man's Three Nuns, but I think it would be hard to argue against the proposition that they have a lot of crappy and mediocre blends in their stable. What do you think? Is it time for C&D to cull the herd and focus their energy on producing a lesser number of top blends?
I do wonder if their strategic direction will change as a result of the recent merger with Laudisi, and I hope that it does.

troutface · Jun 21, 2014

I agree with you completely Peck. I currently have 1 tin of C&D in my cellar. They have so many blends that I wouldn't even know where to start. From what I understand they are a burley oriented blender and burleys are not my thing. I'm certainly open to trying more of their blends but I would need a lot of rave reviews from forum members to bother spending the money. I also wondered if Laudisi will try to streamline their blends.

edit: I found a second tin of C&D in my cellar-Briar Fox. It was ho-hum when fresh but is coming around with age.

sallow · Jun 21, 2014

I find that for me, their burley flake #x series stands out, and night train is really good. I also just placed an order for an 8 ounce exhausted rooster, but that was mostly on a whim.
Some of their offerings to me are just so-so, like haunted bookshop, old joe, etc. I admit they have some blends that are really similar and I haven't tried them all so I can't comment.

derfargin · Jun 21, 2014

On a somewhat related note, I'm curious about the rebranding of a specific offering. If you read the the description of the C&D blend 5 O'Clock Shadow, and Pease's Triple Play, they sound oddly similar. They look identical as well. Just something I noticed.
I still have a whole mess of C&D blends to go through, but I've said this before, I still have too many open samples in jars.

torque · Jun 21, 2014

While I haven't tried an extensive selection of their blends, I believe you have a good point. I have tried a few and, while they were certainly nice quality blends, none of them knocked my socks off. To be honest they all seemed a little bland and "flat" to my palate. Just got done smoking a 1/2 oz sample of briar fox that I received with my last Smoking Pipes order as a matter of fact. Nothing in that blend that changes my mind, actually served to reinforce my impressions, and I smoked most of the sample. It was OK, wasn't great. I could smoke more of it, but to be honest I don't really want to. It was pretty "Meh" for me. I put in an order a couple of days ago and didn't even select any of the three samples I was offered, the appeal just wasn't there.
I have tried a lot of blends that were "just OK", but I need to really like something before I will become a repeat customer for a blend. That goes for any manufacturer/blender. I also don't subscribe to the "you have to smoke several tins in multiple pipes across multiple time periods and multiple batches to really give a blend a fair chance" philosophy either. I think that's total BS. If I have to go to those lengths to force myself to like a blend then I feel like my time, effort, and (most importantly) money could be put to better use exploring other blends that I might find more enjoyable. That's just me though.

masspiper · Jun 22, 2014

I have purchased a lot of baccy in my few months of smoking and not 1 tin of C+D after seeing how many blends they had it sent up a red flag. I am only speaking for myself.

papipeguy · Jun 22, 2014

Ok, I'll take a different approach. I like what they're doing and am willing to play along. That's the fun thing for me with their list. Sure, I'm not intetested in many of the offerings that are aromatic but

I always have at least 10 tins going at once.

I understand peck's point and appreciate his point of view but sometimes I just need to be around someone who's a bit off on their own.

I've been around perfectionists and by the time they get it "right" the world has moved on.

andrew · Jun 22, 2014

I think it's great they have so many blends. They've also acquired the blending rights to G.L Pease, 2 friends, castello, and hermit tobacco's or at least they're on the C&D website, so I assume they're distributing them at the very least. It seems like they're growing at an insane rate and really dominating the american pipe tobacco market.

I would say my cellar has the most C&D blends out of anything, star of the east, pirate kake, Night train, Billy Budd, Habana daydream, Epiphany (the only blend I've tried I'm not too fond of), three friars, Mild and honey, and Bayou Morning, all in bulk. I love the bulk prices and find they have a great quality of blends. I'd rather have too much to select from than too little, plus the place I order from only has 24 of their blends in bulk, so it's not too hard to find stuff I like. Epiphany I just find to be too acrid and harsh for my liking.

beezer · Jun 22, 2014

I haven't tried too many C&D blends personally, so I can't comment on the quality vs. quantity debate per se. However, I do have 8oz each of Pirate Kake and Star of the East jarred up in the cellar. Additionally, I have Kajun Kake on my list of blends to try and might look into their new cellar series as well.
Overall I tend to like having a large number of blends available to choose from and in C&D's case I really like the prices.

northernneil · Jun 22, 2014

Interesting perspective's. I have to admit to being intimidated by C&D's catalog in the beginning. Especially in the beginning when I was still trying to learn my likes and dislikes with tobacco taste.
Recently I have been purchasing some of their Virginia forward blends such as Opening Night and Sunday Afternoon Picnic. I have also order a plethora of their plug and Flake offerings. I have not found a blend of theirs that blows it out of the park with me, leaning towards the point of the original post. On the other hand, it is a fun journey exploring the mass of tobacco offerings and blends, to find the perfect one for my taste.

natibo · Jun 22, 2014

I don't know enough about their business to comment too much, but I can speculate. If there are under-performing blends, then they should discontinue those. More marketing efforts should be placed on those blends that are trending upward. To the extent that they are not producing what the customer wants, they should do more market research. Maybe, they have just been focused on cutting costs and becoming more efficient in their back office, after which they will focus on various product lines.
Just because the company is not producing a product that "I" don't care for, does not mean they are running a bad business. I am assuming it is a business, not a hobby, and as such should be concentrating on maximizing profits for their owners.

papipeguy · Jun 22, 2014

I don,t think we've seen the full effect of the merger with the Laudisi Group yet. Laudisi should be taking a larger role in the marketing and product development areas so I expect we'll see some product line rationalization before long.

While I am a huge fan of C&D, a menu of nearly 300 blends is too unwieldy for any company; especially one as small as theirs.

conlejm · Jun 22, 2014

I'll bet 80% of their sales volume falls into 20% of their blends. That would be a quick way to dispense with most of their trivial blends.
They must be doing something right in terms of quality, as I believe G. L. Pease uses them to blend his products, and his stuff is "top shelf" in my opinion.

plateauguy · Jun 22, 2014

I've only tried 3 C&D blends - all were good, but not fantastic (it could have just been my choices).
When I look at their offerings, I assume that there must be a demand or they would pare them down - just out of an economical standpoint. I'm also interested to see what happens to the brand since the merger.

lochinvar · Jun 22, 2014

C&D is an odd bird to me. There are a couple of things they do that are really wonderful. I love Rajah's Court, Black Duck and Star of the East, they all great smokes that give up nothing, and that I try to stock up on. At the same time, my worst pipe tobacco experience to this day has been C&D's Red Stag...blech. Also, looking over the list with as many blends as they have, its hard for me to find many that they do not screw up by adding something unneeded, usually burley often perique.
I think a big drive in the C&D marketing plan was constant new releases. I would bet that name and tin art work preceded bland work. I think that is being corrected, I just saw a list of discontinued C&D blends....happily Red Stag was one of them.

peckinpahhombre · Jun 22, 2014

C&D's catalog is hamstrung by inferior Va's

If that is true, then shouldn't GL Pease's blends have the same issue? Or does he source his VAs differently?

troutface · Jun 22, 2014

If that is true, then shouldn't GL Pease's blends have the same issue

They do, for me. I tried most of the Fog City collection (most of them aged) and find them too bland. Now Quiet Nights and Samarra I think are brilliant. Just ordered some Chelsea Morning and Meridian but they came in only two months old so I'm sitting on them a bit. When I want great VA's I think McClelland, though their catalog could be pared down a bit too.

mso489 · Jun 22, 2014

Peck, that is a good observation and many would agree. I think there are several things going on. C&D as an

independent entity lost its guru and founding father not too long ago, and then more recently C&D was sold

to the parent company of smokingpipes.com. Assuming that the founder was probably not in the greatest of

health for some time before passing on, likely their line of tobaccos did tend to wander. I think they have a

number of grand old men of tobacco blending on the staff, but it may be that the leadership presence is either

fragmented or not present. Personally, I have found C&D blends uneven. I like their blending tobaccos and

I have enjoyed several of their blends, notably lately Pegasus (bulk). It's a complex and interesting blend, not

an all-time favorite but definitely a worthy one. The "trick" now will be for the ownership to reinstate a

leadership figure or team, or influence from headquarters, without doing the corporate thing of mortifying

the "family" of blenders and other workers in Morganton, N.C. I recently accompanied my wife to Morganton

for her work on a story about sustainable farming in that area, and specifically about lard. When I mentioned

C&D to a group of local people who live and work in the area and whose families go way back, they had never

heard of it, which is quite interesting since people interested in pipes and tobacco all over the world have.

A little community relations might be in order; it's not their customer base, but it is their community.

cosmicfolklore · Jun 22, 2014

There quite a few C&D blends that I have enjoyed and stocked up on. I love their Virginias and VaPers, and a couple of their Balkans. I'm not crazy about some of their blends with burly, but I am not a burly smoker anyways.
That aside, all of the B&M's in this area are dropping C&D and the GLPs because they hate dealing with this Laudisi Group. I don't know much about this group, but I am going to miss the hell out of having GLP's blends close at hand. Personally, this is enough to piss me off at this Laudisi (smokingpipes) Group. Whatever their issue is in relations with their retailers, they need to clean up their act and get back on the shelves on my favorite B&Ms. Or, if just Pease would get with another distributor so that I can more easily enjoy having a huge selection of blends close by.
...just my 2cents : puffy

:

mso489 · Jun 22, 2014

The relationship between organizations/corporations and art, in this case tobacco blending, never did run true.

C&D - Time For Some Focus?

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