Buffing "Speed"

olderthandirt · Sep 19, 2011

Buffing "Speed"
This has bothered me for some time.

Actually ever since I first started getting serious about keeping my herd in tip-top shape.

Namely, the speeds oft cited as being optimum for buffing operations for our pipes.
When the question is asked, the majority of responses relate the RPM of the grinder/buffer being used but rarely if ever address the SFPM that should be used.

Surface Feet Per Minute, SFPM, is the actual speed of the working face of the buff against the work surface. So responses to "How fast..." questions that say use a machine with X RPM are meaningless without reference to the size of the buff and the resultant SFPM.
Anyhoo, long rant short, I finally found a treatise that covers all the questions I've had in this regard.
THE ASP BUFFING AND POLISHING FAQ by Serge L. Dasara
The author apologizes for the length of the article but I think it's a great read start to finish! Section 5 deals specifically with optimum SFPM for the different compounds and operations we want to do with a buffing setup.
The preface to this section:

5. USING COMPOUNDS ON WHEELS
SPEED. You can improve the effectiveness of the polishing operation by operating in the optimum working speed range for the grit being used. This is measured in distance over time and is always expressed as SFPM, or "surface feet per minute". This is the speed that the outer surface of the wheel is turning at, and NOT the spindle speed - and this is an extremely important distinction! To obtain the SFPM, the formula is: spindle speed x diameter of buff x pi/12 = SFPM. For an automated calculation of SFPM, go to http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-turning.htm
From here the different speeds for compounds and operations are detailed.

While I don't have the background or expertise to comment on the specs given in this article it would appear an excellent starting point for anyone interested.
Hope this is of value!

ejames · Sep 19, 2011

First saw this a couple of years or so back. Long winded,but some good info. The guy comes across as a bit of a snob,telling people that they should not use "Washing machine "motors or Drememls,only the higher priced Baldor and Foredom units. I have two of those "washing machine" motors,although actually neither come from a washing machine.

I know of one well known Ebay seller who uses a Dremel regularly for waxing..
Those Baldors and Foredoms ain't cheap, and for a lot of us just ain't needed. I probably have less money in my buffers and all the accessories-wheels,compounds,wax etc than one of those buffers cost.Has served me well,done a lot of work with them.

bubbadreier · Sep 19, 2011

Thanks for the information!! This will help out tremendously when I finally buy a buffer.

olderthandirt · Sep 19, 2011

Granted the specific tools and compounds recommended may be overkill for the majority of us. I don't really see it as snobbery so much as perfectionism as a result of passion.
But ya gotta admit that the point of this thread, optimum speeds for buffing, is addressed in a thoughtful fashion.

cortezattic · Sep 19, 2011

OlderThanDirt, thanks for a really great post and link! :clap:

I too have often wondered what the optimum figures were, and was also somewhat baffled

by the notion that a simple RPM figure could really answer the question.
Like Ejames, I think a simple blower motor, etc., could be effective since SFPM is the issue here.

olderthandirt · Sep 19, 2011

I think a simple blower motor, etc., could be effective since SFPM is the issue here

Absolutely!

The issue brought up regarding the type of motor used as well as race set-up for the spindles has to do with the precision. Folks such as the author of the article have backgrounds in jewelry and other precision pursuits. If what's driving the buff is out of true and introduces a wobble to the pad, a less than perfect finish can result.
I don't see the need for that degree of precision for working on my pipes either.

ejames · Sep 19, 2011

I'm not sure I understand the need for an optimized buffing speed.Does that optimized speed mean that at a specific sfpm the shine will be greater than at a slow sfpm or faster? It seems to me a slower speed will produce the same shine just take longer. You can get the same shine with the right product doing it by hand-if you have the time and patience.

Does it mean that for my red compounds I need a 6" wheel and for my whites an 8" wheel or vice versa?

1725 RPM motors and 6" wheels are what I have. Is it optimum? I don't know,but this set up gives me a very nice result I think. Never had any complaints.

olderthandirt · Sep 19, 2011

??
I only brought this up as a topic for discussion and possible starting point in the learning process for those new to restoration and maintenance of pipes.
My apologies if I've offended in any way ...

cortezattic · Sep 19, 2011

If I was just touching up an old Dr.Grabow I wouldn't be too particular.

But I'd like some assurance that I'm using the right tools and materials

when I try to polish an expensive piece. For that, this article is a confidence booster.

sorringowl · Sep 19, 2011

Thanks for this. Finding detailed info on buffing, in general, is difficult, I've found, and have mostly just resorted to trial and lots of errors. Hopefully, this will help. Thanks again.

bootlegbonvivant · Sep 19, 2011

I think the biggest thing to take away from this is that it doesn't really matter how fast your buffer/grinder spins, but more about taking note that the wheel size will make a difference in your buffing technique and give different results if you're not careful.
I use a grinder that I got from Home Depot. The damn thing spins at over 3200 rpm, however, placing a larger buffing pad allows the SFPM to be slower. Then there's the amount of pressure and how you apply the wax from the wheel to the bowl, which can and will likely slow the buffer even more. Buffing to me has almost come down to an art with the wood. What may work on one pipe, may or may not work on another as well. So I have to adjust a little to get the best results.

olderthandirt · Sep 19, 2011

The damn thing spins at over 3200 rpm, however, placing a larger buffing pad allows the SFPM to be slower.

Greetings Bootleg. That's the fun part of discussions such as this. With the RPM as a constant, a larger diameter buff results in a faster SFPM.
spindle speed x diameter of buff x pi/12 = SFPM

so...

3200*4"*3.14/12= 3349 sfpm

3200*6"*3.14/12= 5024 sfpm

Math and I don't get along well at all. This bit about a larger wheel creating a faster sfpm is, for me, counter-intuitive. But the numbers don't lie!
All of that aside, any methodology that works well for an individual, simply put, works well!

The number of folks that are using 3450 rpm motors and 4" buffs successfully makes me willing to go ahead and get an inexpensive single-phase grinder. If I don't like the results I can always use the thing to power a separate race with step-down pulleys and still have something to sharpen my tools with!

marmal4de · Sep 19, 2011

Great post, and following discussion! When I am pin the market for a buffer, I'll be referring back to this thread.

schmitzbitz · Sep 19, 2011

Wow; and here I thought I was putting too much thought into things...

Great post, and following discussion! When I am pin the market for a buffer, I'll be referring back to this thread.

Ryan; Midlands Supply (Kingsway and Clarke - across the street from the Cedar Cottage, where the VPC meets) has 2 stage grinders (1750, 3200 RPM) on sale for $39.99. That place is amazing, and cheap like borscht - refurber extrodinare Steve Laug turned me onto them and I haven't looked back. The compounds that run $5 per stick at Lee Valley will only set you back $0.99, and you can also find all sorts of awesome tools (dental picks, micromesh, arbors, funky drill bits, etc) at less than half the cost of the other guys.

Coincidentally, there is a Vietnamese restaurant in the same complex called Pho Trang Au; if you like pho, their house special is some of the best in the city!

olderthandirt · Sep 19, 2011

ol' schmitzmitz sez:

and here I thought I was putting too much thought into things...

Well, it is something to talk about, eh? (-;
I've as yet to find a 2 speed grinder like the one you mention above for $39.99.

Do ya have any idea if this Midlands Supply has a web presence? Contact info perhaps?

ssjones · Sep 19, 2011

I read that article a while back when I got interested in doing refurbs. A few well-known pipe makers commented to me that the Foredom unit he advocates really isn't powerful enough for pipe work.
I lucked out and found a 1/4 hp, 1750 rpm motor laying in my parents basement, for years. I nearly took it out wit a junk run several years ago, but figured it wasn't hurting anything and the motor appeared to be in good shape. I took it home this weekend and test wired, it runs smooth and quiet. I put a heavy duty appliance wire on it and an on/off toggle switch. A guy on another forum makes the Beall style arbor adaptors and buffs, and I have that set o on order. I'll be set for some winter estate refurbs.

olderthandirt · Sep 19, 2011

I lucked out and found a 1/4 hp, 1750 rpm

Lucky find indeed.

he-he, I looked through the shelves at my fathers place just this weekend for old motors. No joy )-:

ejames · Sep 19, 2011

I'd like to have a Baldor,the Foredom looks to be rather small and only 1/6th HP.Looks like most of the Baldors run at 3600 RPM. Would take some getting used to for me.

igloo · Sep 20, 2011

Find a motor any motor with a shaft , bolt it , strap it , bailing wire it to a board . Find a cord , any cord with a plug on one end that will plug into a wall socket for power .Go to Radio Shack and get a potentiometer for 6 bucks and wire it in . Buy a arbor and pads . Go to a truck chrome shop and get rouge for about a 10th of the ebay or hobby shop price . Polish away your troubles . Stay tuned for your next episode of redneck science . :puffpipe:

hobie1dog · Sep 20, 2011

I've been working with my wife lately on buffing speeds... 8O :rofl:

Buffing "Speed"

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