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Big Tobacco Loses 11-Year Fight, Forced To Broadcast 'Dangers of Smoking' Ads

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  • Started 1 year ago by deathmetal
  • Latest reply from brightleaf
  1. deathmetal

    deathmetal

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    Smoking kills 1,200 people a day. The tobacco companies worked to make them as addictive as possible. There is no such thing as a safer cigarette. Ads with these statements hit the major television networks and newspapers this weekend, but they are not being placed by the American Cancer Society or other health groups. They're being placed by major tobacco companies, under the orders of the federal courts. "The ads will finally run after 11 years of appeals by the tobacco companies aimed at delaying and weakening them," the American Cancer Society, American Heart Association, American Lung Association, Americans for Nonsmokers' Rights, National African American Tobacco Prevention Network and the Tobacco-Free Kids Action Fund said in a joint statement.

    "It's a pretty significant moment," the American Cancer Society's Cliff Douglas said. "This is the first time they have had to âfess up and tell the whole truth." The Justice Department started its racketeering lawsuit against the tobacco companies in 1999, seeking to force them to make up for decades of deception. Federal district judge Gladys Kessler ruled in 2006 that they'd have to pay for and place the ads, but the companies kept tying things up with appeals. "Employing the highest paid lawyers in America, the tobacco companies used every tool at their disposal to delay and complicate this litigation to avoid their day of reckoning," Douglas added.

    The ads will inform Americans TV viewers that "More people die every year from smoking than from murder, AIDS, suicide, drugs, car crashes, and alcohol, combined," according to one of the ads." Besides $170 billion every year in medical costs -- plus another $156 billion in lost productivity -- roughly one in five deaths in America are smoking-related, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, with cigarettes killing 480,000 Americans every year.

    https://science.slashdot.org/story/17/11/26/2143200/big-tobacco-loses-11-year-fight-forced-to-broadcast-dangers-of-smoking-ads

    Well, that's... something.

    Am I the only one who is more afraid of car/truck exhaust, industrial pollution, and food additives than natural leaf smoke?

    "My own experience has been that the tools I need for my trade are paper, tobacco, food, and a little whiskey." -- William Faulkner

    The Metal Mixtures
    Posted 1 year ago #
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    64alex

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    [Am I the only one who is more afraid of car/truck exhaust, industrial pollution, and food additives than natural leaf smoke?]

    No, we are at least two. It is true cigarette is a big problem but there are many other environmetal issues even more important. And while smoking is a personal choice, we cannot control the exhaust, pollution and food additives. So I suspect in order to avoid speaking about these other issues there is this crusade against smoking. Pipe smoking is just a casualty of the fight toward cigarettes.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. stickframer

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    Am I the only one who is more afraid of car/truck exhaust, industrial pollution, and food additives than natural leaf smoke?

    No you aren't. I've been trying to make people more aware of those things, especially people who nag me for smoking a pipe.

    And while smoking is a personal choice, we cannot control the exhaust, pollution and food additives.So I suspect in order to avoid speaking about these other issues there is this crusade against smoking. 

    Good point. Food companies, as an example, are not in the business of providing healthy food, they are more in the business of providing a profit. So I suppose food additives, and the other things mentioned could be controlled, but that would take great will and come at a heavy cost economically, etc etc. Not gonna happen while there's so many great reality shows on television! So people rally against smoking as a way to feel better about other things.

    It's frustrating to see the words 'smoking' and 'cigarettes' used interchangeably in the media.

    All the more reason to lunt and smoke pipes in public as much as possible.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    I'm not shedding a tear for Big Tobacco. Not a one.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 1 year ago #
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    oldgeezersmoker

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    @sablebrush52, +1

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. hawky454

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    Am I the only one who is more afraid of car/truck exhaust, industrial pollution, and food additives than natural leaf smoke?

    No shit man and good point!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. cosmicfolklore

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    Screw the lying sack of donkey waste that is the cigarette industry.

    Michael
    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. brian64

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    Am I the only one who is more afraid of car/truck exhaust, industrial pollution, and food additives than natural leaf smoke?

    I’m not concerned about those things because the Doctors don’t tell me to be concerned about those things. They only tell me to be concerned about tobacco use...any and all tobacco use. And they know best because they get all of the latest scientific information from the Pharmaceutical Industry.

    Also, all forms of tobacco and tobacco use are equally bad because the Doctors and the Pharmaceutical Industry do not differentiate between them. And who am I to question the experts?

    I only use tobacco because I am weak and selfish. But I’m hopeful that our great Pharma-Masters will soon have a vaccine or pill that will cure me of these things so I can live a normal happy life as they wish for me.

    “Bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out.” – George Carlin
    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. cosmicfolklore

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    I think that the difference between tobacco smoke and car exhaust is that, car exhaust just kills you, tobacco smoke makes you sick and costs the insurance companies money. Dying a quick death is a positive for the insurance companies. It's not about how healthy we are, but how much money we cost them.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    aldecaker

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    I will not shed a tear for Big Tobacco, nor will I unduly scourge them for being about as honest as every other industry (VW emissions data, anyone?).

    Count me among those who feel that various pollutants and food additives are more dangerous than tobacco smoke.

    We can save medical insurance companies the hassle of paying for any sick person by KICKING THEM OUT OF THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM, INTO THE GUTTER WHERE THEY BELONG. Then the poor dears wouldn't have to dip into their investment profits to pay claims.

    A man who serves his country is a patriot. A man who serves his government is an employee. The two are not always the same thing.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. snowyowl

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    Aldecaker:

    Count me among those who feel that various pollutants and food additives are more dangerous than tobacco smoke.

    Sad logic. "Whataboutism" is the false-finger pointing over there: What about....

    That has been illustrated, over and over again, to be a diversionary tactic to fool the foolish. I would reply in kind, by my caplock key is always disabled in my prefs file.

    Recently: the Brits (about the Irish), Putin and Trump (about this and that).

    For the chess players among us: Garry Kasparov said, "Moral relativism, 'whataboutism,' has always been a favorite weapon of illiberal regimes. For a US president to employ it against his own country is tragic."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

    "If you see something... pipe up."
    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. cigrmaster

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    How many more times do we need to have the government tell us tobacco is bad for us. Didn't they make the cigarette companies pay billions to the states to allegedly pay for increased health costs? Wasn't that money supposed to be put in a fund to actually pay for health costs from smoking but the states actually just put it in their general fund and did not spend the money like they were supposed to? I remember states came looking for even more money when they blew the money they were supposed to have saved.

    "This is the first time they have had to âfess up and tell the whole truth."

    Puuullleeeaaaassseeee, who on this planet doesn't know cigarettes are bad for you, who doesn't know there is no such thing as a healthy cigarette? What is going to happen is the tobacco companies will just raise their prices to cover their costs. The black market for cigarettes will continue to grow. I personally could care less about the cigarette companies but I do care if pipe tobacco mfgs get hurt by this somehow. I wonder how much money our government spent to get this ruling, how many millions did it take and how many kids could have been fed with the money they wasted? This country is so screwed up.

    Harris
    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. cosmicfolklore

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    who on this planet doesn't know cigarettes are bad for you.

    The problem is that for decades, they kept planting fake research, fake science, and kept at it, and kept at it, till there still is a faction of people who question whether there is any link between health issues and tobacco. Meanwhile they were working on making their product more and more addictive.
    Then, they are responsible for every single word in the new FDA about pipes and tobacco.

    Double screw them.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. warren

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    And, as we admonish "big tobacco" and "big insurance" we need to remember to thank them for being profitable and keeping our retirement plans solvent. Much as when we "knock" the foibles of the younger generation, we should to take the time to thank them for paying into Social Security. I got all my contributions back years ago. So, now I'm enjoying life on the backs of Mickey D's young employees, the great business sense of R. J. Reynolds, Arco and many other companies we love to castigate.

    Life is complicated. We curse and debase certain companies even as we enjoy the fruits of their profitability.

    A man without a shillelagh is a man without an expedient.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. papipeguy

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    Statistics are as elastic as time. My Dad died at the age of 85. He gave up cigarettes at 55. when I looked at the COD on his death certificate is was listed as smoking related. I asked his doctor about it and he just shrugged and said, "Well he was a smoker." None of the chest xrays over the past 30 years indicated any issues with his lungs but he became a statistic the moment he died.
    So, who are the winners here? Sounds like the networks who will bill the tobacco companies for airing the ads that no one will pay attention to.
    BTW, I agree with Warren's take. My 401K became very sizable from companies many like to hate. There's politics and then there's business.

    Blowin' smoke since 1970.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. perdurabo

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    Don't think I've ever seen car exhaust listed as Cause of Death, well, unless a hose was thrown throurgh the back window of a car.

    I'm seeing nothing but smoke and mirrors.

    It's not my position nor want to help another man. It's his responsibility to help himself, as where he can learn to dig down deep enough to save himself. -I. Kidd
    Posted 1 year ago #
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    aldecaker

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    @Snowyowl:

    Hmm. Interesting. Deathmetal first mentioned pollutants and food additives, 64alex, Stickframer, and Hawky454 all agreed with him before I did. And yet it is me who gets accused of "whataboutism". Perhaps you thought I would be more fun? Well, OK. Here we go.

    Thank you for your concern, but my logic is not "sad". It is reasoned and as well-informed as I can make it. I was not connecting dots; you went ahead and did that for me. Nowhere did I state, nor do I think, that pollutants and food additives make smoking any healthier. I simply agreed that more widespread damage is caused by those two things than by smoking. While I appreciate your insults, I do not now, and never have, indulged in "whataboutism". Nor do I fly false flags or chase red herrings.

    I don't know what it is you would "reply in kind" to, since I directed absolutely nothing in my post towards you, nor indeed to any snowy owls of any sort.

    Any relativism was inferred by you, not implied by me, and as to your suggestion that I employ moral relativism, well, I resent it as the unfounded jibe that it is.

    And Warren, I hear ya, and partially agree. But I can guarantee that the health insurance industry has cost me more, in inflated and rigged pricing schemes, than my 401k has profited from them.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. snowyowl

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    Aldecaker:
    Glad to see you got your caplock key unstuck.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. perdurabo

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    Aldecaker, that's great. Then you must agree with me that Insurance needs to be abandoned in everything but catastrophic coverage and Doctors and hospitals can finally compete like every other business does. Need I bring up the contract discounts that you enjoy because of The Health Insurance industry? Nah.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. perdurabo

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    I see Trump and Putin's name dropped. Guess this thread became instant Endangered Species.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    aldecaker

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    Snowyowl- My caps lock key was not stuck, wiseass. I was underscoring the vehemence with which I feel that medical insurance should be removed from the medical industry.

    Perdurabo- I do agree that medical insurance needs to be abandoned in everything except catastrophic coverage. Routine care and billing should not be dependent on "insurance". The contract discounts are a farce. The insurers drive a $50 cost up to $250 so that it can then be "discounted" down to $50 for their customers. Customers who are now entrapped into medical insurance because they can afford the $50, but not the new $250 "uninsured" rate. All they gotta do is pay never-ending baksheesh to the insurance company for the privilege of "affording" healthcare. I have never gotten an actual discount from the health insurance scam, and neither have you. Bring up those discounts as much as you want- they still don't exist.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. warren

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    I got good genes and have made more than I ever paid into. Insurance and Medicare/caid kept out pocket expenses very low when my wife fought her losing battle with cancer. So, I'm way ahead, if such can really be noted when discussing the loss of a loved one.

    I pay a buck per prescription because of my insurance. In fact I am at the age where I can safely say I'm costing my insurance company and the government much more than they are collecting from me. For that I thank all of you still working and contributing to certain government plans/ploys. My broken hip ran me about 1200.00USD. The government and my insurance shelled out in the neighborhood of 80000.00USD.

    Again, my thanks and I hope you all live long enough to recover your payouts. Unfortunately a generation is coming along which will be the ultimate victim of certain US Government Ponzi Schemes. Me I'll be gone and my grandson will be going, "WTF! Thanks grandpa."

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    aldecaker

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    The thing I like about you, Warren, is your honesty and candor. Most people can't admit that they may be benefiting from something someone else may be saddled paying for.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. brightleaf

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    Our courts deny a company from being able to advertise on TV in any way that promotes their product, but forces them to do so in a way designed to reduce sales. How is this a country that promotes business growth? The only thing I see coming from this is one more step on the road to a people wanting every decision made for them, all of their problems solved by someone else, and zero responsibility for any difficulties in life. Forcing your neighbors/fellow countrymen to jump through hoops and self-flagellate is only going to guarantee that you will be subject to the same tyrannical authority as well. It is too bad no one can afford to run a business in this country any more, even working for one isn't profitable.

    POSSIBLY, contentment is not only the chief element of life, but also one of the very foundations of society. If this be so, then as Tobacco is the enemy of malice, friend of virtue, and a direct cause for content, its use should be encouraged. -J.W. Cundall 1901
    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. warren

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    What court is keeping Mickey Ds fro0m advertising their splendid repasts on TV?

    The great thing about living in America now is just the fact that so many people are made lazy or fearful by government. Such creates space for the innovators, doers and thinkers at the top. The timid and lazy won't take the chance and follow a dream. But, to be successful the dream has to be well thought out and funded. It isn't easy but a lot of people do it.

    I know enough about retail that, if I was inclined to do so, I'd lease a plot across from a Lowes or HD and open an Ace store. Properly seeded, in five years, I'd be making money hand over fist. I'd do it with service and Ace's phenomenal business model. It's a can't miss operation if you are willing to invest the time and money. Lots of time, close to 24/7 as an owner. It's damned hard to be successful in retail.

    If you want to see some spectacular success stories watch a TV show, "Diners, Dives and Drive-ins". It's mind-boggling what can succeed with a huge amount of effort and a willingness to take a risk all you have.

    No, this is a great time to have a dream and a plan in America. But, you can't just go out and open a store or shop. People won't beat a path to your door if you aren't offering something they want. There is no success without planning,damned hard work, attention to detail and knowledge. And, the ability to suck it up and not be afraid to fail. I think it helps to not have the "quit" gene in your structure also. Too many quit when the dream appears to require too damned much work.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. perdurabo

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    Agree with you 100% Alde...Just getting to the point before the thread blows. Those discounts don't exist, they're built in Kroger Plus Cards. There is no real market with the Insurance Companies playing middle man.

    Brightleaf, I saw a Cigar International Ad in a Gamer Magane my son got. I was amazed, happy, elated...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. perdurabo

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    Somewhere I read that Pipe tobacco buyers rely on Big Tobacco for tobacco access. Can anyone in the audience that may have knowledge of this, say yea or nay?

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    jzbdano

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    Another government over reach that is going to cost companies billions of dollars. It's foolish to think that it's OK for our government to screw big tobacco or any other corporation we don't like. Now they are forced to lie by stating bias bloated statistics from the likes of the AHA ACS ALA IN their ads. What a waste.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. brightleaf

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    That's a point worth exploring perdurabo. Big Tobacco requires a large infrastructure, an infrastructure that allows tobacco to be grown, collected and sold in the huge volume that it is. Without Big Tobacco, pipe tobacco would be dependent on a very small group of farmers. Farmers that probably wouldn't be able to sell all of their tobacco allotments.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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