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smittyd

Part of the Furniture Now
Feb 7, 2018
830
907
45
Pennsylvania
I spent the weekend at a B&B with my wife in Gettysburg Pa over the weekend. We live about 45 mins from there so every now and then its fun to hang out for the weekend. There is always lots to do and see there. This time i saw online that a newer Cigar and pipe shop had opened up in that city, so of coarse i had to check it out! What i saw there was ghastly. They had a large array of Sutliff Blends, that they tried to claim as their own. I found this out because while looking at their pouches, I noticed one with the label peeling off a bit, and sure enough underneath was the Sutiff logo! As if this was not bad enough, They had a table full of tins from various makers which i thought was exciting. Then i picked them up one at a time to investigate. Every tin was marked up to 35 dollars. Insane i thought to my self. So i started to look over their pipes for sale. They had quite a few new Peterson pipes, not one of them was under the 300 dollar mark. The cheapest pipe they had for sale was 145 dollars for a Stanwell brushed series , which you can buy online for 45 bucks. I relize they have their store centered in a tourist town, But is there anyone out there dumb enough to spend those kinds of prices? YES there is! Just as i was ready to walk out the door a man came in and bought a Peterson pipe for 350 dollars , that he convinced his wife was a steal of a price. " You can't find these anywhere " he said to his wife! So i figured to each his own and left a little bit more discouraged about the state of the world today.

 

jguss

Lifer
Jul 7, 2013
2,414
6,222
I’m much less appalled than you. As for the rebadging of Sutliff blends, the practice of local retailers reselling oem tobaccos under their own name is nearly universal and has been for generations. As for high markups on pipes and tins the caveat emptor rule, as always, applies.

 

seanv

Lifer
Mar 22, 2018
2,958
10,405
Canada
I’ve seen some of these practices in tourist type towns before too. The pipes get marked up to some insane amount. Just recently I saw an elaborate basket pipe for -no joke- $250. I laughed and put it down. The clerk looked at me like I was some kind of asshole or something lol

 

pipestud

Lifer
Dec 6, 2012
2,010
1,749
Robinson, TX.
I’m much less appalled than you. As for the rebadging of Sutliff blends, the practice of local retailers reselling oem tobaccos under their own name is nearly universal and has been for generations. As for high markups on pipes and tins the caveat emptor rule, as always, applies.-jguss
Ditto!

 

doctorbob

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 18, 2014
772
1,157
Grand Ledge, Michigan
Sorry to hear of your disappointment, always a bit of a let-down when a new-to-you place doesn't meet expectations.
My local Tinderbox shop when I started was ALL re-badge tobacco. Anytime a shop is in a tourist town there will a penalty markup if only because retail rents are higher in those markets. When I was in Gettysburg we stopped at Union Cigar, but didn't stay or purchase as they had very little in the way of pipe materials.
doc

 

mountainman

Can't Leave
May 4, 2012
396
1,314
While I don't shop at B&M's very often anymore, I do appreciate them for several reasons. First, that is where I got back into piping, by going into a shop, overpaying for a Savinelli pipe off their rack, and picking up some re-branded Lane 1-Q. It was nice to talk to someone about the types of pipes and tobacco. Of course, I eventually moved to online shops that offer much lower prices. Second, it is a great place to take your pipe and tobacco, and go in to have a seat and smoke with other like minded folks. If it wasn't for a place like that, I might not have picked up the hobby and continued to support it. Also, keep in mind that B&M's are paying for employees, rent, utilities, taxes, etc. to run that store, and will never compete with online shops.

 
May 9, 2018
1,687
86
Raleigh, NC
This is all well and good, but I would agree with the OP for several reasons. While I can see that maybe it's the status quo to re-brand tobaccos, that's not for me. Whatever your reasons for doing so, I'm more likely to buy from you if you're not "covering up another brands logo". Otherwise, I feel like I'm being lied to. I don't like that feeling. Makes me wonder what else you're trying to pull over on me.
My local shop and the ones I really enjoy tell you that their tobaccos are not blended in house and are just brand name bulks tossed in a jar if they are. One shop blends their own, some 15 jars or so, then the others are brand name bulks tossed in jars, but they tell you that up front. The tins are about double what you'd find online, and that's fine with me. When I buy one, I know I'm supporting my local B&M and they're not extorting me. I shop with my wallet for the most part.
If you have a reasonable markup on tobacco or pipes, I'll buy from you. I know they have to make money, and I love to support them to keep the hobby going, but if I feel like I'd have to throw down a small fortune for a pipe that's been marked up by 500%, then I'm just not buying it. It's not my fault you're store is in a high-priced area, so I'll walk though, take a look, maybe buy something cheap for walking in like some cleaners, then walk on out. Otherwise, the crazier the price is, the further and further you're just pushing not only new guys, but guys that have been smoking for years, over to the online retailers. When you're on a budget, it doesn't make sense to by all your pipes and tobacco at such crazy high prices in a B&M when you can get it for less than MSRP online. I'll support a B&M, but I can only support so much. This is coming from a smoker that's just gotten back into the hobby within the last few months and only started to collect my pipes and tobacco this go around. If that store was the norm, I'd probably have to say that I couldn't afford this hobby.

 

doctorbob

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 18, 2014
772
1,157
Grand Ledge, Michigan
Carolinachurchwarden- I agree with most of what you are saying. Escalating prices surely don't make me want to buy from an establishment, but I do understand why they have to be higher (in some cases much higher). Retail overhead, especially in a tourist market is brutal. And the higher the cost, the less they sell. It is a vicious cycle. Your right, it isn't your fault that their store is in a high priced area, and you should 'vote' with your wallet. I generally don't go into a store in a tourist district expecting to find or buy anything at a reasonable price, those store are there for a different target demographic than the one I happen to fall in.
It isn't clear from the OP that they said that they were blending in house, but it is clear that they were putting their own names and labels on bulk blends. THAT is very common, and that is what most of the posts have been referencing. And I think it is very easy to forget the real cost of putting a tin on shelf in a store that is actually open nowadays.
doc

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,632
44,856
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Gotta go with Jon and doctorbob one this one. B&M's rebranding bulks with private labels has always been a standard practice. Hell, a lot of the tins you guys buy online are nothing more than rebrandings of the same blend. There's something like 26 rebrandings of 1Q alone.
B&Ms face higher operating costs than online warehouses and they have to pay all the taxes associated with the states in which they do business. On line stores have been able to avoid that, though given recent events, that's about to change as well.
But there's the thing that makes buying from B&Ms worth the extra expense. It's a place that I can go, settle in to a chair, and relax with other smokers. It's a place where I can go and find hard to find blends that the on line stores don't have. I can have a personal relationship with the proprietor of a B&M, which means better service, and/or a tin or two of that hard to find blend that's put away for me to come in and pick up. On line stores are great, but you're a number, nothing else.
We pay less for our tobacco blends than just about everyone else on the face of the earth and we bitch about the costs. No, we're not spoiled.

 

aldecaker

Lifer
Feb 13, 2015
4,407
42
"We pay less for our tobacco blends than just about everyone else on the face of the earth and we bitch about the costs. No, we're not spoiled."
While this is entirely true, it never pays to take the devil for our example.

 
May 9, 2018
1,687
86
Raleigh, NC
I agree that the B&M's do have a lot higher costs, but at the same time, how much of a markup will you willingly accept? The number is relative to the buyer, in this case. I might not be willing to pay for a pipe in a B&M if I know for a fact that I'd be paying 3 times the MSRP value. Maybe 2 times, but even that would push it, but that's for me. I vote with my wallet, and I'll find a B&M who's prices fit the bill better for me. Now if someone else does have the money and is willing to pay the price, then that's great. They each get what they want, while I file back out of the store empty handed because nothing fit the bill for the price I'm willing to pay. It does seem like a cycle that can't be broken: higher prices = fewer sales = even higher prices...
I would love to find that B&M in which I could go, pull up a good seat and then enjoy myself with other smokers, however the only B&M I have that comes close only has 4 chairs rallied around a table, typically occupied by the shop owner, a buddy of his and a guy smoking cigarettes. I'd be very likely to spend more if I found a place you speak of, Sable, I really would. I'd stay, buy some tobacco, smoke a few bowls, have some conversation and love every minute of it. Unfortunately I haven't found a B&M like that. Which makes me very envious of guys like Cosmic with a great looking establishment nearby.
Now, as far as re-branding another blend, I do understand that other brands do the same thing, however the difference to me, as in the OP's case, if you dump Lane 1-Q into a jar and put a label on it that says it's "John's Back Porch Mix", then you're basically lying to me. If I don't know you are, that's one thing. If I clearly can tell you've done a relabeling over another brands label, nope. I'm gone. Don't lie to me. If you do that and tell me you do, then I might be okay with that, but to discover it for myself, you won't get another dime out of me. At that point, I just feel like I won't ever be back inside your store. Just how I feel. If that's how it's been for 1,000 years, alright, but if I feel like you're lying to me about something, I can't do it.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,433
Something to remember when you travel. People spring for a lot on vacation -- the big hotel bill, some extravagant meals, tours, boat rides, whatever. So their wallets are open and they make sad mistakes. This is of course terrible for people being introduced to pipe smoking by being royally ripped off. If the man takes a greater interest in pipes, he'll soon discover that he could have bought two or three Petersons for what he payed. It's bad for the pipe industry in general when scammers use pipes and tobacco in their scams. Poor guy could have bought a MM cob and a pouch for ten or twelve bucks at a local drugstore and had just as good a smoke. Maybe he'll live in the delusion that he has a rare and beautiful souvenir of his trip.

 

doctorbob

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 18, 2014
772
1,157
Grand Ledge, Michigan
Now, as far as re-branding another blend, I do understand that other brands do the same thing, however the difference to me, as in the OP's case, if you dump Lane 1-Q into a jar and put a label on it that says it's "John's Back Porch Mix", then you're basically lying to me. If I don't know you are, that's one thing. If I clearly can tell you've done a relabeling over another brands label, nope. I'm gone. Don't lie to me. If you do that and tell me you do, then I might be okay with that, but to discover it for myself, you won't get another dime out of me. At that point, I just feel like I won't ever be back inside your store. Just how I feel. If that's how it's been for 1,000 years, alright, but if I feel like you're lying to me about something, I can't do it.
But that is EXACTLY what 1Q was designed for. That is why Lane's blends have such weird alphanumeric names. They were designed and marketed to tobacco stores of decades for precisely that purpose- to allow small stores to sell bulks locally under their own name (NOT the Lane name). Guys never walked into a store and said "Give me 2 ounces of BRD6, that sounds good", they bought Uncle Charlies Chocolate Bomb, or whatever the heck the store called it.
I get what you are saying, but this is a standard business practice in the industry, and has been for way longer than any of us have been around. Some store blend their own, most do not.
Doc

 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
11,700
16,209
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
Brings to mind, "let the buyer beware."
Rebranding is a standard and acceptable practice in nearly all retail business. Grocery store "house brands" are not privately developed food stuffs but, in most cases, simply repackaged products.
My old, now long gone, tobacconist used various Lane's bulk as the base for most of his house blends. A couple of customers, carefully selected, developed various local blends for the "house." "Stoney's Blend" was a blend developed by ... Stoney. Each house blend had a decent following and remained in his inventory for years.
The "Tinder Box" near Sea-Tac Airport asserted they did the same and did not sell unadulterated Lane's as "house blends." I didn't know the owners well enough to be able to attest to the claim. My palate seemed to uphold it though. We all know how bad my palate is.
As concerning "over priced" pipes, let the buyer beware. It's not different then buying an overpriced sombrero in Tijuana. Everything is overpriced in a tourist trap town. Everything is probable overtaxed also. Local governments look at tourists as "open wallets", many of the taxes are in operation only during the "season."

 
Jan 28, 2018
12,955
134,673
67
Sarasota, FL
The bad B&M's are the ones that have gone out of business. Making a profit isn't evil. Losing money and going out of business is the worst business evil of all. Educated and savvy pipe smokers, such as members here, are a microscopic representation of the overall pipe smoking population. The guy who bought the Peterson was ecstatic with his find. The shop owner made a decent profit. Everyone wins. If the Peterson were half the price, would you have purchased it?

 

rmpeeps

Lifer
Oct 17, 2017
1,122
1,765
San Antonio, TX
- “Maybe he'll live in the delusion that he has a rare and beautiful souvenir of his trip.”
You never know what that souvenir means to another, or where it may end up.

I have a birth year Dunhill that belonged to my grandfather. He had 2 drugstore pipes, and a fine Dunhill.

A while back my mom said she wondered if he bought it on their trip to California? Her parents were off in California on their “trip of a lifetime”, when I was born 2 weeks early.

This Dunhill of my grandfather’s may have actually been bought the day I was born.

 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,570
27,077
Carmel Valley, CA
Sometimes I don't mind overpaying for an item due to its being a practical souvenir from a place or time I want to remember. But a $300+ Pete that's available elsewhere for half that is stretching it.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,632
44,856
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Now, as far as re-branding another blend, I do understand that other brands do the same thing, however the difference to me, as in the OP's case, if you dump Lane 1-Q into a jar and put a label on it that says it's "John's Back Porch Mix", then you're basically lying to me. If I don't know you are, that's one thing. If I clearly can tell you've done a relabeling over another brands label, nope. I'm gone. Don't lie to me. If you do that and tell me you do, then I might be okay with that, but to discover it for myself, you won't get another dime out of me. At that point, I just feel like I won't ever be back inside your store. Just how I feel. If that's how it's been for 1,000 years, alright, but if I feel like you're lying to me about something, I can't do it.
I understand your point, but given that it's a widespread practice, not just with tobaccos, but with a hell of a lot of other products, I just don't care. Every supermarket you walk into has house brands. They stick their label on something that's made by somebody else. Every drugstore you walk into has house brands. They stick their label on something made by somebody else. Clothing manufacturers, textile manufacturers, all kinds of industries practice relabeling. And plenty of tins with well known names are relabelings of the same blend. Lane 1Q is just one of them. Sutliff has supplied tinned and bulk blends for a bunch of labels. McClelland did the same thing.

 

bnichols23

Lifer
Mar 13, 2018
4,131
9,554
SC Piedmont
As might be expected (from having spent years behind the counter) I stand with Jesse & Warren on this -- for indie shops, leaf rebranding has ALWAYS been the standard. When I was with Tinder Box we got our bulk in bags with the TBI label on it, so that I can't tell. But from having worked for John Crouch, yeah, "our" blends came from Lane, Stokkebye, etc.; & the B&Ms I rely on now are the same.
My fave B&M now is in Gatlinburg, which (as "Destin with mountains") is about as touristy as you can get, yet Ira doesn't charge heinous prices for his pipes. I picked up a Sav Tre for nearly the same as you'd find it in a non-tourist locale, & bot that much more than you'd find online. Di I consider myself lucky? Definitely, since it means that when I go to scope what's in his cases I don't have to think about whether I'm being charged $300 for a $130 pipe.
Dang right I'm lucky, & know it. But TBH, who goes to the a historic battlefield town to buy pipes? Baccy, yeah, maybe, but pipes, well..... :)

 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
11,700
16,209
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
If I had a tobacco shop in Gettysburg I'd be displaying and selling replicas of the various battlefield found pipes displayed in the local museums. Probably lots of them. Of course I'd have to locate someone to make them.

 
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