Availability of Samuel Gawith, G & H, Rattrays-USA vs Europe

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pipebuddy

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I don't know how many of you browse on the European websites for tobacco but I have noticed that while the popular brands mentioned in the subject title seem to be constantly out of stock for about, or over a year as of now, here; they seem to always be in stock in the Old Continent.

I am trying to figure out if this could be explained by an issue with: the US distributors; or if there is something else (maybe sinister?) at play, i.e. preference for sales is given to the European market vs the US as prices are higher, thus the manufacturers reap in more profit; or it's something else, related to the infamous FDA upcoming restrictions. But then, the FDA Boogie Man theory makes no sense as most of these blends have been produced for a long time....As for new packaging requirements, they are already imposed in Europe so it would not be challenging for the manufacturers to mention how nicotine (well, according to the FDA and all the anti-tobacco asstighted-can't-seem-to-have-fun-in-life-so-let's-take-out-on-the-smokers organizations) is such a devious and dangerous chemical on the tin.

As if all the preservatives and dyes in food; alcohol-yes, boooooze, unfortunately-; the way-overboard constant addition of sugar in anything and everything food wise in order to make you addicted, thus eat more and become overweight (I guess using 'fat' would be offensive to the overweight people?); avoiding people in real life and live in a virtual, fantasy world behind one's smartphone and laptop keyboards; that there would be something like 70 various gender identifications today, making more and more people more confused than they already are :crazy: ; as if all these are not bad for you but nicotine is really baaaad. And smokers, well everyone knows they're lazy 'cause they're always on a break, according to the bosses and little dictators-wanna-be-bosses-too. But I digress.

This (tobacco availability of these brands, that is) has been, well, bugging me a bit over the last few months.

Any thoughts/theories/conspiracy theories on this topic, gents?

 

seanv

Lifer
Mar 22, 2018
2,969
10,447
Canada
based On sales numbers across the board a smart company exports only a certain percentage to each individual market. A combination of cost vs sale would dictate

 

jaytex1969

Lifer
Jun 6, 2017
9,520
50,597
Here
European blends are more available in Europe?
Kinda makes sense to me.
We have many European members commenting on the challenges of getting and trying C&D, GLP, etc. so it goes both ways.
jay-roger.jpg


 
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pipebuddy

Guest
Fair enough, Sean; but these brands have always been in stock with no major disruption for a long time (I have been buying tobacco online for 14 years); with the exception of Samuel Gawith that ran into a distributor problem about, what, 7 years ago, or so? And, all of a sudden, they are always out of stock.

I know some people really focus on hoarding tobacco but I don't think that can explain it in itself.

Maybe the European members could shed some light?

 

seanv

Lifer
Mar 22, 2018
2,969
10,447
Canada
America is not their biggest market, they are probably happy with the hype the shipments create. Everyone goes nuts when some of their product is released ad then poof it is gone. The hype machine starts again

 
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logs

Lifer
Apr 28, 2019
1,873
5,069
Isn't it just a few producers you're talking about? Not everything imported is hard to get. Mac Baren and STC products don't ever seem to be in short supply, whereas Germaine and Gawith always seem to be sold out. The difference just seems to be the output of these companies. Mac Baren and STC are large companies and produce tons of product while Germaine and Gawith are small don't produce very much. The rise of a few big online tobacco retailers along with the increased popularity of the hoarding/cellaring culture now make it possible to sell out at a pace that would have been impossible 20 years ago. Also the Asian tobacco market now buys up a sizable portion of their products that might have been shipped to the US in past years.

 
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sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,747
45,289
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
I don't think anyone has any idea, outside of the blenders and their distributors, and those folks aren't talking. But if I were going to speculate I'd guess that the Asian market is getting a larger cut. That Smoking Pipes has set up an office in China might be telling.
We tend to complain about the cost of tobaccos while paying a fraction of what others pay. And if you're in the business to make money, where are you going to sell your product? Are you going to sell it for a lower amount when you can do better elsewhere?

 
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Jan 28, 2018
13,051
136,508
67
Sarasota, FL
I buy from some Euro sites and looked at a number of others. Some Euro blends seem to be a little more available there while many are just like here, sold out. I think Gawith may have had a distribution problem here (purely speculation) because it seems since they've changed distributors, there's been quite a few shipments. And this simply could be coincidental timing.
If someone wants a blend bad enough and is willing to be a bit patient, and put in some effort, you'll find it.

 

greeneyes

Lifer
Jun 5, 2018
2,151
12,253
Without going into it too much, there's a finite amount of tobacco and a finite production capability. The scarcity on our side just reflects that as consumers we're competing with the enormous Chinese market, as has been the case for many luxury goods.
"Chinese spending represented 33% of the global luxury market in 2018" (compared to America's 22%). The tobacco is entering China's "gray market" via Europe. Manufacturers aren't too keen on advertising this point. A Chinese friend was in London and spoke to a fellow at GQ Tobacco about getting some samples of a new Germain blend for me and him. "Send to China? Sure, no problem. To the USA? Too risky."
With the retail tobacconists being constantly bombarded with requests to ship to China, and the fact that very easily the overwhelming majority of the Esoterica and Samuel Gawith tobacco sold on eBay is destined, not for the domestic market but for China, it was only a matter of time.
It's no coincidence that Germain's blends have almost completely disappeared from distribution here in the USA and yet consumers in China and (especially) Taiwan seem to be enjoying an uninterrupted supply.

 
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3rdguy

Lifer
Aug 29, 2017
3,472
7,293
Iowa
While they may be available in Europe look at the prices. I ship a fair amount to a guy in the UK because even with shipping it is a lot cheaper then buying there.

 

ormazd

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 12, 2018
121
58
Virginia, USA
Anecdotally, during a recent trip to Malta I was able to easily purchase tins of Samuel Gawith, Rattray's, and Dunhill.

 
Oct 7, 2016
2,451
5,195
From Chris Gawith on Facebook:
“The truth is that GH demand has reached record levels around the world. As a small producer this means problems with capacity. However, the USA is very high priority for us and we are continually working on the next order. We have recently met with our US distributor to try and make better plans for continued supply. Please be patient. There is about 5tonne in process for the US..... Trying not to change anything is part of the problem. We have no intention of automating the process. I have been around several big producers and they just seem soulless to me. Our guys actually have to sweat to make this stuff. They really care about the product they make. If something isn’t quite right, it doesn’t go any further (although this is extremely rare). We are working towards allocating chunks of the year just to the USA. The importer can then order enough to go from one schedule to the next.”
Chris Gawith is now in charge of G&H, which is also the manufacturer of Samuel Gawith.

 

greeneyes

Lifer
Jun 5, 2018
2,151
12,253
none of that assurance is any less true when substituting the word "China" for "USA" there. rest assured.

 
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pipebuddy

Guest
Without going into it too much, there's a finite amount of tobacco and a finite production capability. The scarcity on our side just reflects that as consumers we're competing with the enormous Chinese market, as has been the case for many luxury goods.

"Chinese spending represented 33% of the global luxury market in 2018" (compared to America's 22%). The tobacco is entering China's "gray market" via Europe. Manufacturers aren't too keen on advertising this point. A Chinese friend was in London and spoke to a fellow at GQ Tobacco about getting some samples of a new Germain blend for me and him. "Send to China? Sure, no problem. To the USA? Too risky."

With the retail tobacconists being constantly bombarded with requests to ship to China, and the fact that very easily the overwhelming majority of the Esoterica and Samuel Gawith tobacco sold on eBay is destined, not for the domestic market but for China, it was only a matter of time.

It's no coincidence that Germain's blends have almost completely disappeared from distribution here in the USA and yet consumers in China and (especially) Taiwan seem to be enjoying an uninterrupted supply.
@greeneyes: where did you get that info? I am aware that China is the biggest producer of tobacco (cigarette tobacco, in majority). I am also aware that tobacco production in our western countries have significantly declined due to the anti-tobacco regulations, which has allowed the African and Asian production to increase. It would be interesting to see if western traditional manufacturers are already outsourcing their crops from these areas and what pourcentage it represents. And if, in the not so long term, they will move their production plants out there to satisfy demand.

 

pappymac

Lifer
Feb 26, 2015
3,295
4,327
My local B&M just received a shipment of 8 different Samuel Gawith Blends including Squadron Leader, 1792 Flake, Grousemore, Best Brown Flake, Commonwealth and a few others.

 

tidalwave

Lurker
Jul 9, 2019
33
6
4noggins just got a big drop of Rattray, I finally managed to pick up the 500g bulk of Hal o' the Wynd I've been hunting.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,747
45,289
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Isn't it interesting that the Esoterica blends, which were created exclusively for the US market, are now expanded to offer blends exclusively to the Asian market? All out of that tiny factory? Businesses go where the money is.
I am also aware that tobacco production in our western countries have significantly declined due to the anti-tobacco regulations, which has allowed the African and Asian production to increase.
Partly due to anti-tobacco legislation, partly due to the ending of Federal tobacco farm Subsidies.
Not to forget South America and Malaysia. Wonderful tobaccos are grown all over the world. When blended by someone with the talent of Hans Wiedermann, creator of HU, they can't be beat.

 

briarbuck

Lifer
Nov 24, 2015
2,288
5,494
With the strength of the US Dollar right now, I am surprised that the EU producers aren't concentrating selling more in the States. Better margins.

 
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