Artisan Pipes & Long Term Value

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iamn8

Lifer
Sep 8, 2014
4,248
14
Moody, AL
This is more a thought exercise than anything, but I'm curious what you think. Fifty years from now it's a certainty that a pipe from a Dunhill, S Bang, Tokutomi, the Danish carvers and the like will hold value, but just how valuable will a pipe be from any of the young current top tier artisans? I hate the term "investment pipe" as much as anyone, but there are quite a few current carvers who's pipes sell for high dollar amounts. Who's pipes are most likely to hold value 50yrs from now?

 

jefff

Lifer
May 28, 2015
1,915
6
Chicago
It's so hard to predict. I suppose some one like Rad might be valuable because of the limited number.
Will a Todd Johnson pipe that sells for 4000.00 today hold its value or see a great increase in 50 years?
You got me....
Also, I am not entirely sure that a 2016 Dunhill will be worth much at all in 50 years.

 

xrundog

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 23, 2014
737
1
Ames, IA
The Todd Bannard Sasquatch pipes I have are the best quality, best made, best smoking pipes I've ever had. I do not regret at all the money I've spent on them. I see them being very desirable to future pipers. If there are any future pipers.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,433
It's fun and probably futile to speculate. Right now there's an up trend in tobacco pipes and smoking. That's partly fashion and might pick up a lot or slowly fade. I think the pipe smoking culture fuels the pipe buying market and collector's market, which sounds obvious; I think there's more action at the mid, high and very high end. I do think Dunhill will hold its ground pretty well on name recognition. It will stay at the high end of whatever market there is, partly because they are well stamped and identified and referenced, so people know what they're getting. Likewise with artisan pipes, the well-know high end makers who either produce reasonable volume or have made some sort of elite name for design will probably still command good prices relative to the market. For lesser pipes, the great old American factory pipes and high volume French, Irish, U.K., Italian, Danish, etc., I think it will depend on the continued interest in smoking in general. Pipe smokers are more likely to want these, so if smokers are more or less numerous, that will control the demand, hence the prices. I think even Dunhills, but all pipes, are a stogy investment. A few people make a thousand percent on particular pipes by buying from the naive or digging up treasures in estate sales, but old pipes are like old bonds -- not big earners with a few rare exceptions. Buy precious metals.

 

jvnshr

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 4, 2015
4,616
3,868
Baku, Azerbaijan
Hello. I am coming from future and your artisan pipes have no value as well as your estate brand pipes. A nice Dunhill costs around $5, corn cobs cost around $50 due to the corn deficit. The only tobacco blend is Captain Black Cherry and is sold for $39.99 (1 oz). Any other questions?

 

pitchfork

Lifer
May 25, 2012
4,030
605
It's an interesting question. I suspect that a lot of artisan pipes, especially if the maker didn't make a lasting name for himself, won't hold their value very well.
A couple of older American pipe makers sort of bear this out. Andrew Marks pipes sell for c. $400-700 new, but estates rarely command more than $100. He's been making pipes for over 40 years, but simply isn't as well known among newer pipe smokers. Ed Burak's Connoisseur pipes are similar in that way. Burak's pipes sold for many hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars, but today, even unsmoked examples command only a fraction of their original cost. Again, while there are a few collectors who focus on his designs, he isn't that well known among newer pipe smokers.
It's possible that something similar will happen with today's generation of pipe makers. But I would think that some names will actually increase in value. It's just hard to say who those pipe makers will be.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,323
11,092
Maryland
postimg.cc
Only a couple of names come to mind that might have some pop in 20 years:

JT Cooke

Todd Johnson
The rest will probably be listed in a book like "Who Made That Pipe II".....

 

bigpond

Lifer
Oct 14, 2014
2,019
13
I think the ROI from pipes is found purely in the joy of smoking other concerns amount to little more than pipe dreams.

 

papipeguy

Lifer
Jul 31, 2010
15,778
35
Bethlehem, Pa.
I suppose there will always be a market for artisan objects. Predicting future values is tough. When I was a kid a 1957 Chevy Belaire was a $50.00 junker. In 50 years the pipe market could be gone or greatly diminished.

I plan for the future but live in the present.

 
Brian went over this in the Pipe Parts of the Radioshow a few years ago. There is no such thing as an actual profit from investing in pipes. When you look at the the biggest increases in prices, subtract inflation, you see that there are very, very, very few pipes have ever actually shown any increase or profit, and those are most likely flukes. It's a fools errand to try to invest in a pipe in hopes of getting a return. It just won't happen. You'd be better off buying a lottery ticket.
Smoke 'em and enjoy them. That's your investment.

 
Heck, when Becker died, the market flooded with people trading off their Becker pipes. So many were out there that people just weren't getting the prices they were asking. And, places like The Briary that normally carry quite a few of his pipes, even dropped their prices a tad. I now see Beckers going for quite a bit less than Becker was getting for them himself. I had never seen a $200 Becker, even as an estate, but now you can pick them up quite frequently. I have added two to my collection at way cheaper than I could have gotten while he was alive.
But, I guess if the artisan was very very well known, but he didn't make but a few pipes, then those might see a jump in price. Might. The market is not a tame beast.

 

jguss

Lifer
Jul 7, 2013
2,417
6,224
I agree with cosmic; almost every pipe bought is a consumption good, not an investment.
Typically with items of this kind the only people who predictably make money are the intermediaries, i.e. the ones handling the transaction. The question in the vast majority of the cases isn't how much you'd make upon resale but how little you'd lose. And even if the return was net positive, I suspect it would generally lag having parked it in an index fund.
It's analogous to stock picking; indices almost always beat active management.

 
Typically with items of this kind the only people who predictably make money are the intermediaries
It's ALWAYS the middleman. My banker makes tons off of me and my investments. My refinery change 20% more than market for metals, and buys it back at 80% of market, and my customers only ever get 70% because of this. And, someone who wants to sell their gold or silver at actual market price... not unless you find a sucker. Diamond brokers, just drop your pants and grab your ankles, because a pawn shop is the only place you'll get a decent price for diamonds. In the art world, it's the guys who know the art collecting billionaires who buy the high dollar art that make the high dollar money off of buying and selling. Then add in lawyer fees, insurance, taxes...

 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,570
27,079
Carmel Valley, CA
"Investing" in tobacco begs the question: What is an investment?? I hear some people even say, "I invested in a car I needed for work". That's not an investment!
If one bought quantities of tinned tobacco several times that of Peck's inventory, with a plan to hold it and sell in in x years, it could be an investment of a significant financial nature. A hundred pounds or so might be a personal investment. Buying a ton now hoping to sell it in three months would be speculation. O.K, I am babbling now, so I'll shut up. I didn't get that Nate was planning to "invest" in pipes for a financial gain.

 

newbroom

Lifer
Jul 11, 2014
6,088
6,413
Florida
Part of the value, of anything, is recognition. See: Coca Cola, Donald Trump, or Budweiser.

That said, I think that within the growing community of knowledgeable pipe smokers who access the internet with a focus on the subject, the recognition of some artisans may rise to the point of long term value of their output.

I don't fault a carver for whatever price he asks. If he can get it, good!

Some folks can't keep up with the demand for their product, because they are so desirable.

To be able to produce a few pipes a year and charge enough to make your keep is the realm of only a select few.

 

xrundog

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 23, 2014
737
1
Ames, IA
I don't buy pipes as investments. But if you can smoke and enjoy a pipe, and then get the same money or close to what you paid for it, that's smart pipe buying in my book. Some pipes seem to depreciate very little from use. That said, the condition, other than being smoked, of the pipe when sold matters a great deal.

 
Really, people buy used pipes at almost the same price as one could buy one new? This is not what I see on ebay. I sometimes see folks "asking" for a high price, but not very often do I see someone "getting" that high price. I can't imagine someone paying that, unless they just have no clue what pipes are worth.

 

jefff

Lifer
May 28, 2015
1,915
6
Chicago
It's seems to me the best way to go would be used artisan estate pipes. I have a few I bought for less than half of new retail. I am pretty sure I could get what I paid for out of them
If that was my plan.

 
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