Are Antivaxxers Going To Be Next?

brightleaf · Feb 18, 2018

The lessons learned by public health officials in their war on tobacco are already being considered for use against others groups.
From the article Are 'Vaccine Skeptics' Responsible for Flu Deaths? medpagetoday
Morse suggested that perhaps there is much that the public health community might learn from the approach of anti-tobacco organizations, such as the Truth Initiative, when talking about the dangers of not getting vaccinated
Recently released flu vaccine efficacy data indicated that only a little over a quarter of pediatric deaths were in vaccinated children.
Peter Palese, PhD...at Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City, was unequivocal in his response: "I fully agree with the statement that the antivaxxers are responsible for the needless deaths of many people,"
Robert Field, PhD, MPH, JD, professor of health management and policy at Drexel University in Philadelphia, said that the public health community "is only as strong as the tools it has available.

seacaptain · Feb 18, 2018

I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but I'm also not pro government forced vaccinations.

warren · Feb 18, 2018

Well, this one will hardly see the light of day. Most especially because most agree that this year's vaccine was not particularly effective against the years strain of Flu. Or, this year's tools were particularly infective.

perdurabo · Feb 18, 2018

I have never had a flu vaccination. The reason I haven't is from my parent's experience not mine. My mother was a nurse. Every year she received the flu vaccine. Every year the injection caused her to get the flu. She stopped getting the vaccine, and the result was no flu. Now that doesn't mean she didn't get the flu. Just not every year as before. So, I don't get the shot, my wife doesn't and neither do our children. I've talked with my physician about the flu shot. He couldn't give me a convincing reason to get the shot. When I probed him about how the body needed to fight the virus naturally, he couldn't argue with that. When I told him of my mothers experience, he said that the vaccination reacts differently with different people. I told him I'd risk a polio vaccination on my children, but not the flu. The polio vaccination has a better success rate than the flu vac.
I'm not one of these folks that rips Big Pharma. In most cases I believe the money they do on research is well worth it. But they are a business and the point of business is to make money. I'm sure they have a few vaccinations that are cash cows. It's my responsibility to figure out which ones are the cash cows. With tthat being said, a flu vaccination may work for some. If it does, that's great. This year I believe we see that the shot was a dud. Of course that depends on the strain.

brightleaf · Feb 18, 2018

What I thought was interesting was the quote "the public health community might learn from the approach of anti-tobacco organizations"

The Truth Initiative they referred to was created by the 1998 MSA. In other words it is government funded from the earmarked settlement monies. The public health community (CDC, Dept. of Health, etc) is a part of the same campaign against tobacco as the Truth Initiative, yet they are acting like it is a new idea that they should learn from.

They work their way into more and more laws, punishing people financially and limiting their press access. And then act as if it is a new idea.

mikethompson · Feb 18, 2018

I can see this thread ending well

flakyjakey · Feb 18, 2018

Not in the case of 'flu vaccination, for the reasons given above - i.e. lack of specificity.
But I am concerned about parents who refuse to have their children vaccinated with highly specific vaccines against diptheria, whooping cough, tetanus, mumps......
These diseases cause mortality and morbidity and are preventable!!

perdurabo · Feb 18, 2018

Brightleaf, don't expect this thread to last. I suspect vaccinations for some, is as much a right, as they feel the right to snatch other rights away. Hence the dreaded P. Word. I wouldn't hold my breath to get an objective conversation.

brightleaf · Feb 18, 2018

I am in agreement with your experience perdurabo. I know an emergency room doctor that does not get the flu shot and he is around hundreds of cases of the flu each year. Personally, the only time I ever got the flu was within a week after the shot. I haven't had one in 7 years and have not had the flu once during that time.

brightleaf · Feb 18, 2018

The point of the thread is not to be for or against vaccinations. It was to bring to light the tactical similarities that started with the campaign against tobacco by public health officials.

seacaptain · Feb 18, 2018

And we're off! :D

brightleaf · Feb 18, 2018

lol I'll go ahead and get this out of the way.

warren · Feb 18, 2018

This year's vaccine was dead/inert stuff. No chance of getting the flu through the vaccine this year. So, that anecdotal information isn't germane this "go round."
In many places government, through school districts, already requires certain vaccinations. It's a tough choice. I know people who have wrestled with it. Most eventually decide the risk of the vaccinations is less than forgoing such. A tough decision indeed, not to be taken without good information and study.

brightleaf · Feb 18, 2018

Yeah, I can't say my experience is based on anything but chance warren. I have only seen evidence that flu shots provide protection.

lazar · Feb 18, 2018

What flakyjakey said.

brightleaf · Feb 18, 2018

Another point about this article is that the tobacco companies signed their rights away in a settlement. The availability of information has been challenged in the past, with most outcomes favoring the freedom of speech. This article may indicate that more challenges to availability of knowledge are coming.
The well documented abuse of legislative power by public health officials in the Soviet Union is some history worth remembering.

From the book review of Psychiatric Terror: How Soviet Psychiatry Is Used to Suppress Dissent by Sidney Bloch, Peter Reddaway

Essentially, their message is that the Soviet authorities, to a limited extent under Stalin, and on a larger scale since his death, have relied on "core psychiatrists" such as the notorious academician Andrei Snezhnevskii, head of the Institute of Psychiatry, Academy of Medical Sciences, to propound a doctrine that in effect equates independent thinking, especially if it involves criticism of official Soviet ideology or policy, as evidence of mental illness

Chasing Embers · Feb 18, 2018

My family gets every vaccination available, but in the past I would get the flu shots, and burn up my sick days afterwards. No more for me.

dochudson · Feb 18, 2018

Absolute fact you DO NOT get the flu from a flu shot!

Chasing Embers · Feb 18, 2018

Whatever it was, the times I did get sick from them, I've never been that sick before or since I had them.

Chasing Embers · Feb 18, 2018

Ah, this may explain after shot illness. Either way, 104 temps and hospital stays have permanently shied me away from flu shots.
https://medium.com/@andreangelantoni/there-are-several-significant-errors-the-doctor-includes-in-her-article-6dfc196afd9b

Are Antivaxxers Going To Be Next?

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