Adjusting a screw in tenon.

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coty

Lurker
Feb 8, 2014
33
0
Lately I've been cleaning up cheap basket pipes just for fun and to learn how to do it. I'm currently working on one marked as a "Brewster". Its a neat little pipe. It has a screw in tenon like a Kaywoodie and just like most Kaywoodies the stem is crooked. I have searched this and other forums and found that the common technique for correcting this is to heat of the stem and move the tenon.
However, I can not get this tenon to move no matter how how hot I get it. I've dipped the stem in boiling water, put it in the oven and I've even held a lighter to the tenon. All I've managed to do is is oxidize the stem and bugger up the tenon. Thankfully its a cheap pipe. I would still like to fix the stem but I cant think of anything else to try. Any suggestions?

 

vabriar

Starting to Get Obsessed
Oct 24, 2012
199
1
Hey Coty first off welcome to the forum! Second, I have the same issue with one of my old Kaywoodies and have had no luck with my efforts to correct it. I will be interested to see what others have to say.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,765
45,328
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Can't speak to adjusting a Brewster, but if it's constructed like a Kaywoodie you're supposed to heat the shank, not the stem. The fitment in a Kaywoodie shank is glued in. Heating the shank softens the glue and eases the bond. You then turn the stem to reset the position.

Kaywoodies came from the factory with the stem slightly underclocked. The idea was that smokers would try to remove and reattach the stem before the pipe was completely cooled and over time turn the shank fitment, thus throwing off the alignment of the stem. By underclocking the stem, over time the movement of the shank fitment would gradually cause the stem to move into alignment and thus avoid overclocking the stem during the probable life of the pipe.

 

coty

Lurker
Feb 8, 2014
33
0
The shank insert in a Kaywoodie is actually threaded into the shank as you can see here. http://rebornpipes.wordpress.com/2013/12/27/kaywoodie-drinkless-apple-repurposed-and-refurbished/
Attempting to turn it would only remove it or damage the shank, depending on which way you twist.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,765
45,328
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
The shank inside in a Kaywoodie is a two part fitment. The outer part is threaded into the shank. But the inner part, into which the stem is threaded, is glued into the outer part, and will spin in it when heated.

 

vabriar

Starting to Get Obsessed
Oct 24, 2012
199
1
I could be wrong but I've been told some years the Kaywoodie stingers were glued only and other years they were threaded with glue. One of my Kaywoodies is slightly overclocked and I tried a method of adjusting that was suggested to me where I rested the stinger on my electric stove burner and let that baby heat up then tried to twist it. I figured in my overclocked situation if it were glued or threaded I would be able to adjust it with out breaking it. Well, it didn't break but it didn't move it either. I got a little gun shy and didn't want to break anything so I ended up making a paper washer to put in between the shank and stem which put a band-aid on the problem, but I will probably try again sometime. Anyway Coty I didn't mean to hijack your thread!

 

vabriar

Starting to Get Obsessed
Oct 24, 2012
199
1
sablebrush52- while I was typing my last response you posted your response :eek: . So, from what you know are all the Kaywoodie stingers made in the same two piece fashion?

 

coty

Lurker
Feb 8, 2014
33
0
I could be wrong but I've been told some years the Kaywoodie stingers were glued only and other years they were threaded with glue. One of my Kaywoodies is slightly overclocked and I tried a method of adjusting that was suggested to me where I rested the stinger on my electric stove burner and let that baby heat up then tried to twist it. I figured in my overclocked situation if it were glued or threaded I would be able to adjust it with out breaking it. Well, it didn't break but it didn't move it either. I got a little gun shy and didn't want to break anything so I ended up making a paper washer to put in between the shank and stem which put a band-aid on the problem, but I will probably try again sometime. Anyway Coty I didn't mean to hijack your thread!
I'm in the same boat. I have gotten the stinger so hot at one point that I burned a small amount of vulcanite and the tenon still wouldn't budge. Maybe it is threaded.
The shank inside in a Kaywoodie is a two part fitment. The outer part is threaded into the shank. But the inner part, into which the stem is threaded, is glued into the outer part, and will spin in it when heated.
I have never seen a shank insert like that. Could you post a picture so I could compare it to my Brewster and see if that is what I'm working with?

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,765
45,328
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
To the best of my knowledge all the synchrostems were made in this fashion. It's how the factory technicians were able to do the alignment in the first place. The outer metal fitment threads into the shank. This forms a collar for the inner portion which has a flange that runs around the circumference of the shank. That flange is the metal strip that is visible on a Kaywoodie. It keeps the inner piece from sliding into the shank. The inner piece was coated with hot glue where it would contact the collar, then was inserted with the stem attached and rotated into position. Once the glue cooled the alignment was set.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,765
45,328
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Hi Coty
I had a repair sheet for Kaywoodie that showed the construction, but I'll be damned if I can find it. I did a quick search to see if it might be on line somewhere, but no luck. Maybe a more prolonged search would turn one up.
Just reading some of the threads about heating the stems and twisting the stinger in the stem gave me the willies...

 

coty

Lurker
Feb 8, 2014
33
0
Hrm. My shank insert does not appear to be made that way. The outer flange connects seamlessly with the threaded inner portion of the insert. I'm fairly certain it is a single piece.
I would really like to see that repair sheet. You are the first person I have run across who has claimed the shank inserts were two pieces so I hope you understand why I am so skeptical.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,765
45,328
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
The outer flange is connected to the inner portion into which the stem threads. It lips over the shank to keep the inner portion from sliding into the shank when being glued in. If it weren't there as a cap, you would probably see the two layers. Now I did find this bit of information which come from Bill Feuerbach of SM Frank and company, makers of Kaywoodie:
The following was posted to alt.smokers.pipes some time back. The first solution was from Mark Tinsky, and the second from Bill Feuerbach of S.M. Frank & Co., Inc, maker of Kaywoodies. >A way to fix it would be to very very slowly heat up the end of the stem. At some point the filter screw will loosen. Turn stem into pipe untill the filter screw stops. At this point you should be back to where you were originally with the stem over turned. Now rotate the stem around until it is in the proper position and let it cool. This should fix it >MT >www.AmSmoke.com
Mark, That would work, but on some older Kaywoodies the drinkless attachment is threaded and then epoxied into a bushing that was press fit into the stem. The actual overturn is from the bushing shifting and not the condensor. I've had good results shifting the position of the bushing in the shank. Below is how I do it and its not too hard for guys to do at home. (This is the reply that Mark Wright refers to in his post.) Overturns: This has long been a problem with Kaywoodies, the result of taking pipe apart and tightening too much when pipe is warm. Actually when we make them, we mount the stem slightly underturned, because in time they will straighten up. There are two ways to fix the problem depending on the age of the pipe. On the older pipes (30's-early 50's), the female bushing in the shank was threaded into the briar. The threads are fairly fine, maybe 20/inch. On this type, the threads on the drinkless attachment go all the way down to the shoulder of the stem and the ball has 4 holes in it. After the early 50's the bushing was press fit into the shank. The o.d. of the bushing on this type has a knurl cut into it to help grip the briar. On this type the threads on the drinkless attachment stop about 1/4" from the shoulder, the ball has 3 holes. Each type however was held in place with an adhesive to help keep it in proper alignment. I think what happens is that while the pipe is warm the adhesive can get pliable. If the pipe is taken apart to run a pipe cleaner through and reassembled sometimes the bushing can shift. Then as the adhesive resets, it becomes glued in the overturned position. The trick is, if you take the pipe apart while smoking, do not tighten too much while pipe is still warm. Just until its snug. To do the repair, you will need a heat source that gets red hot, like the coils of an electric stove, or a hot plate. Remove the stem from the pipe. After you determine which type of bushing is in the pipe, try one of the following. For the older screw in type bushing You will need an Easy Out tool, for removing screws, that fits in the end of the bushing. With the heat source red hot, apply the end of shank, the flat part of the bushing, to the heat for about 10 seconds. Remove from heat. You should see a small wisp of smoke. Quickly insert the Easy Out in the end of the bushing and turn counter clockwise. If it doesn't go, re-apply to heat for 5 seconds and try again. Be careful because too long of an exposure to the heat can cause the wood behind the bushing to blacken. Also too long exposure to the heat can cause the end of the shank to swell slightly. The Easy Out may put a few dents in the end of the bushing, but it shouldn't interfere when screwing in the stem. Once you get the bushing out, clean off the loose adhesive from the bushing and from inside the shank. This may also be a good time to clean the goo from inside the shank, but be careful not to scrap down the briar in area where the bushing sits. Now screw the bushing onto the stem. Tighten as much as you can by hand. Next apply a 5 minute 2 part epoxy to the threads of the bushing. Screw the bushing back into the shank, leaving it slightly (5 degrees or so) underturned. Wipe off any excess epoxy that squeezes out. For the newer knurled type bushing: With the heat source red hot, apply the end of shank, the flat part of the bushing, to the heat for about 10 seconds. Remove from heat. You should see a small wisp of smoke. Quickly screw in the stem all the way, continuing to turn clockwise try pulling the stemand bushing from the shank. If it doesn't go, re-apply to heat for 5 seconds and try again. Screw the bushing onto the stem. Tighten as much as you can by hand. Next apply a 5 minute 2 part epoxy to the knurl of the bushing. Push the bushing back into the shank, leaving it slightly (5 degrees or so) underturned. You may find twisting it in one revolution may help getting it in, make sure the cloverleaf on the stem is correct side and not upside down. Wipe off any excess epoxy that squeezes out. That should work. If you have an old beat up Kaywoodie, you may want to sacrifice it as a practice pipe. Hope this helps! Bill Feuerbach S.M. Frank & Co., Inc. (Kaywoodie/Yello-Bole/Medico) P.O. Box 789 Peekskill, NY 10566 smokepipes@aol.com www.smfrankcoinc.com

 

vabriar

Starting to Get Obsessed
Oct 24, 2012
199
1
Ok, it is late so not out of the realm of possibilities that my brain isn't processing things properly but I think we might all be saying the same thing. Here is how I would describe it, tell me if this is you guys are saying. On my Kaywoodies there is a visible male threaded stinger that protrudes from the stem when the pipe is dissembled and there is a female threaded sleeve that is in the shank of the pipe into which the male piece threads in to in order to assemble the pipe. My understanding is when talking about the male threaded portion only it was put into the stem by either glue or threading and glue at the factory depending on the year it was made. Whichever method was used at the factory it was always the same result leaving a male threaded portion sticking out of the end of the stem.

 

vabriar

Starting to Get Obsessed
Oct 24, 2012
199
1
Ha, sablebrush52 you beat me to the post again while I was typing :) but I must go to bed and catch up on the discussion tomorrow. Thanks for all the info guys!

 

coty

Lurker
Feb 8, 2014
33
0
Ah, so there are two types of assemblies. I apologize for being so obstinate, you are the first person to ever even mention a glued in shank insert. No I just have to determine which version this brewster has.
I will now focus my efforts on the shank rather than the tenon as everyone else has suggested. Thank you for your help!
But I'm getting a bit tired and confused now as well. The shank inserts are in fact only one piece, correct?

 

coty

Lurker
Feb 8, 2014
33
0
Alright, so I held the shank to the stove for a bit and removed the insert with an easy out. It was the threaded variety. I'll epoxy it back in when I'm done with the rest of the refurbish. The heat from the stove made a small dark spot on the shank so I'll take that as an excuse to refinish the entire bowl.
You, Sablebrush, deserve a reward for proving the entire internet, and my stubborn self, wrong. I did a lot of searching and reading before coming here with this problem and I was fairly convinced the only way to go about this was the stem heating technique.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,424
11,325
Maryland
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Good timing. Steve just re-clocked a Kaywoodie. I told him in the comments, to at a tag for "fixing an overturned stem".....
http://rebornpipes.wordpress.com/2014/02/08/restoring-a-kaywoodie-drinkless-volcano/

 

vabriar

Starting to Get Obsessed
Oct 24, 2012
199
1
Great info Sablebrush and thanks for the link ssjones! Perhaps I can now fix my old Kaywoodie. Coty let us know how your Brewster turns out.

 
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