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A Sight To Bring Tears To The Eyes: 45,000 Barrels Of Bourbon Wasted!

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  • Started 1 month ago by mawnansmiff
  • Latest reply from alaskanpiper
  1. mawnansmiff

    mawnansmiff

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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-48862621/jim-beam-warehouse-fire-destroys-45000-barrels-of-bourbon

    What an awful waste.....thankfully no one was hurt though.

    Regards,

    Jay

    ...take up thy stethoscope and walk...
    Posted 1 month ago #
  2. alaskanpiper

    alaskanpiper

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    Bummer. At least it wasn't good bourbon.

    "We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that death will tremble to take us." ---Hank

    "Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man..." --- The Dude
    Posted 1 month ago #
  3. jaytex969

    jaytex969

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    In other news, law enforcement reports about 450,000 fewer DUI's and drunken disorderly arrests this year....

    Gunner, Black Frigate. Say "Hello" to my little friend!
    Posted 1 month ago #
  4. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    Barrels!! Boggles my mind. Enough to swim in in a pretty good sized pool.

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 1 month ago #
  5. alaskanpiper

    alaskanpiper

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    In other news, law enforcement reports about 450,000 fewer DUI's and drunken disorderly arrests this year...

    Haha, wouldn't it be nice if that's how it worked? Unfortunately if T-Bob and Cleatis can't get their Beam, I'm sure they'll get their kicks with Old Crow, High Times, or some other budget rate backwoods hillbilly sauce. That way they have enough money for 13 drinks, but not a cab ride home....

    In actuality though, most DUI offenders in Alaska are actually middle to upper class well to do folks who are just too arrogant to obey the law. They'll go spend $200 on 6 barrel aged craft sours for $10 a glass, and a few Macallan 18s then drive home blaming our shitty public transportation system or the expensive overnight downtown parking.

    Sorry if I sound rude or stereotypish, this is just a real sore spot with me. Living in a state with one of the highest incidences of DUIs, including many deaths per year, it is just very frustrating to see how soft the punishment is, and how soft people's attitudes toward it remain.

    My opinion? A month of jail time for each .01 over the limit. Double it for second offenses, 3 strikes, license gone for life. You are playing russian roulette, but pointing the gun at other people in addition to yourself. The punishment should fit the crime.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  6. mawnansmiff

    mawnansmiff

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    "My opinion? A month of jail time for each .01 over the limit."

    PLEASE Alaskanpiper, let us not politicize this story...that's how threads get closed down. You're a newcomer here so perhaps you're not aware of the Forum rules?

    Regards,

    Jay.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  7. alaskanpiper

    alaskanpiper

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    PLEASE Alaskanpiper, let us not politicize this story...that's how threads get closed down. You're a newcomer here so perhaps you're not aware of the Forum rules?

    I am aware of the forum rules regarding politics. I guess I just didn't see this as a political statement, and considered it more like a rant about an anomalous lack of common sense regarding a life and death issue, but perhaps I am incorrect. I suppose there may be some members who think driving under the influence is perfectly acceptable so please accept my apologies.

    No intention of turning this into some sort of argument, just an issue that I am particularly passionate about being so close to it on a daily basis. Again, please accept my apologies.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  8. ashdigger

    ashdigger

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    Alcohol is an accelerant....I saw this and I ran to the store to buy more Jim Beam.

    Ubi Ignis Est?
    Posted 1 month ago #
  9. ashdigger

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    Sorry if I sound rude or stereotypish, this is just a real sore spot with me. Living in a state with one of the highest incidences of DUIs, including many deaths per year, it is just very frustrating to see how soft the punishment is, and how soft people's attitudes toward it remain.

    Sorry, but I really don't care. The more draconian the rule, the more ways around it.

    You have your vices and I have mine.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  10. mcitinner1

    mcitinner1

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    ^

    Stan
    Godfrey Daniels!!
    The Plenipotent Key to Cope's Correct Card of the Peerless Pilgrimage to Saint Nicotine of the Holy Herb:
    Posted 1 month ago #
  11. alaskanpiper

    alaskanpiper

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    Sorry, but I really don't care. The more draconian the rule, the more ways around it.

    You have your vices and I have mine.

    Well, mawnansmiff, you were correct, apparently my comments were more political than I thought. Despite being sorely tempted to respond to the above comments, I will refrain from doing so in an effort to keep your thread limited to its original intent.

    Sorry again.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  12. chasingembers

    chasingembers

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    I guess I just didn't see this as a political statement

    Not did I. At least it was bourbon and not good whiskey.

    I like coffee exceedingly.
    - H. P. Lovecraft
    Posted 1 month ago #
  13. alaskanpiper

    alaskanpiper

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    At least it was bourbon and not good whiskey.

    I like Bourbon. Just not Jim Beam, there are some good ones out there. Woodford, Elmer Lee, etc. But to each their own. I do like scotch more...but I like em all, even rye and irish.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  14. jaytex969

    jaytex969

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    Ol' Jim and I landed in the drunk tank several times in the late 80's.

    He may be cheap and sleazy but he's a lot of fun running amok on an Army private's salary.

    The Captain Black Grape of the whiskey world, but they sure sell plenty of both...

    Posted 1 month ago #
  15. alaskanpiper

    alaskanpiper

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    Haha, jaytex I would certainly take it over nothing! Cheap liqour definitely has its time and place.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  16. chasingembers

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    I'll take local white lightning over any of it.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  17. workman

    workman

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    Would Jack Daniels be considered a Lakeland, with that soapy thing going on?
    I like some cheap bourbons like Jim Beam and Jack Daniels. Or is that not technically a bourbon?
    I also like cheap irish whisky like Jameson and Tullamore Dew.
    For some reason I can't stand cheap scotch. I treat myself to an expensive bottle now and then, but for cheap, I'll take irish and american.

    Smoking is one of the leading causes of all statistics.
    Posted 1 month ago #
  18. chilipalmer

    chilipalmer

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    A couple of things...
    If you're a bourbon fan, the loss of a Jim Beam warehouse is a monumental tragedy. Jim Beam makes many different bourbons including: Old Grand Dad, Baker's, Bookers, Basil Haydens, and Knob Creek. I haven't seen any of the news stories mention which labels were affected. So, depending on your preferences, that warehouse fire could be really bad.

    As to Jim Beam being "cheap," I will only say this, much more often than not, bourbon prices reflect availability not quality. That is not an opinion. That is a fact. Sadly, bourbon is the "it" drink of the week and loads of new labels are popping up. Being a native Southerner, I was given bourbon from the time a could hold a cup, so, all the hoopla doesn't really get me too excited, but, if you're new, my one suggestion would be to start with the oldest labels you can find, such as Jim Beam, and go from there. As with pipe smoking, try different varieties until you find what you like. Then, stock up and enjoy.

    Lastly, Workman, Jack Daniels and, my preferred George Dickel, are "Tennessee Whiskey" not bourbon. The sole difference between the two being Tennessee whiskey is filtered through charcoal and bourbon is not.

    Cheers,

    Chili

    “Pipe: a primary masculine symbol with authoritarian overtones but also indicative of reliability and contentment.”
    -The Dictionary of Visual Language, 1980
    Posted 1 month ago #
  19. workman

    workman

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    Yeah I thought I had heard something about Jack D. not being bourbon.
    Thanks Chili.
    In my neck of the woods, place in the world, country or whatever, bourbon is not very common. So I have never seen a higher grade Beam.
    Only once have I tasted a very vintage, very high end, very cask strength bourbon of, if memory serves me right, 72% alc. (144 proof) I can't recall the maker, this was 10-15 years ago, but the bourbon was strangely smooth and flavorful given it's high alc volume, and that's when I discovered that there's more to bourbon than what's on the shelves around here.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  20. chilipalmer

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    Workman,

    Living far north of bourbon country, I am not surprised it's difficult for you to acquire. You should probably relocate.

    Personally, my problem with Jim Beam (white label) is that it is a 4 year old bourbon bottled at 80 proof. The minimal age makes it "thin" on the palate and the lower alcohol level makes it seem "dull." This is not to say that Jim Beam is inferior. Similar young, low proof bourbons and Scots whisky produce a similar experience. That aside, the flavors of Jim Beam are all correct and there's nothing really "wrong" with it.

    For me, bourbon really hits its stride at 90 proof and I keep several different labels on hand; each with its own purpose. For instance, mint juleps require Maker's Mark, cocktails need punch so a high rye bourbon like Bulleit fits that bill. For general mixing, Bulleit, George Dickel 10year, and Jim Beam's Devil's Cut serve well. For sipping, Colonel E. H. Taylor, Knob Creek, Elijah Craig, and Woodford Reserve all perform admirably.

    Barrel proof selections are really hit or miss because they come from one barrel and the flavor may vary wildly from bottling to bottling. They also require restraint, due to their elevate alcohol content. There is a reason people where I come from refer to bourbon as "bust head" and refer to someone's day-after suffering as "barrel fever." As an aside, if you ever see another, note that the barrel information is on the label. That information will let you know if your next bottle is from the same or a different barrel.

    Bourbon is as broad a field of study as Scotch whisky. I suspect the Scots would agree because most if not all Scots whisky is aged in bourbon barrels! No, I'm not joking.

    Cheers,

    Chili

    Posted 1 month ago #
  21. alaskanpiper

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    Don’t know that I’d agree its as broad a field as scotch, many more distilleries in scotland, not to mention regional differences in peat levels, sherry/madeira/port/bourbon barrel aging, 6-50 year age statements, and strengths all over the map. Not to mention the subtle geographic differences in the peat itself, highland park’s heathery (and heavenly) peat flavor being a prime example.

    I love good bourbon (anything woodford, elmer lee, willet pot still, blantons, elijah craig, stagg, orphan barrel, dare I say pappy van winkle, and many more) but the world of scotch offers much more variety for each persons palate, from unpeated madeira barrel aged 25 year offerings to 200ppm peat bourbon barrel aged 6 years, lowland to islay, and everything in between. And generally just far more options of each.

    Bourbon is certainly an underrated and underappreciated spirit though, thats for sure. My first love in the spirit world.

    And workman, your palate is spot on, cheap bourbon, irish, and rye whiskey are fine. Cheap scotch is HORRIBLE.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  22. mawnansmiff

    mawnansmiff

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    "...not to mention regional differences in peat levels, sherry/madeira/port/bourbon barrel aging, 6-50 year age statements... "

    Alaskanpiper, you may not be aware but age statements on bottles of scotch were done away with quite some while ago!

    Why? I have no idea but to me not a wise move.

    Regards,

    Jay.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  23. alaskanpiper

    alaskanpiper

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    Alaskanpiper, you may not be aware but age statements on bottles of scotch were done away with quite some while ago!

    Umm, what? Don’t know where you are buying your scotch but age statements are alive and well. The vast majority of single malts still proudly display 12, 18, 25 etc. on their label from pretty much every distillery in Scotland. At least the bottles we buy in the U.S. do. The occasional offering from some distilleries (talisker storm, macallan no.x series, etc.) don’t but far and away most scotches still have age statements on the label.

    Maybe we have different definitions of what an age statement is, but if we are talking about the same thing then you are most definitely mistaken.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  24. anantaandroscoggin

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    AlaskaPiper's metaphor made me think that it would be "Playing Russian Roulette with a hand-grenade instead of a handgun."

    Posted 1 month ago #
  25. mawnansmiff

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  26. chasingembers

    chasingembers

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    you may not be aware but age statements on bottles of scotch were done away with quite some while ago!

    I bought this last weekend for the Independence Day cookout.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  27. mawnansmiff

    mawnansmiff

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    Duane, with all due respect old stock is still available but the quantity is rapidly diminishing.

    My sister bought me a Jura Islay Malt last birthday and it had no age on it. Other bottles she has bought me on my previous birthdays of the same were 10 years old, this last bottle had nothing.

    Read the two links, it's all in there.....I kid you not!

    Regards,

    Jay.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  28. chasingembers

    chasingembers

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    I read both, but like anything else I read on the internet, I have to see it before I believe it.

    Posted 1 month ago #
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    frozenchurchwarden

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    Funny thing with Scotch, I wish Laphroaig and Ardbeg would start selling barrels at 5-years.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  30. mso489

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    I don't know how much Jim Beam exports, but the devilish thought crossed my mind that maybe the tariffs on bourbon had prompted an effort to collect on a warehouse full another way. I'm sure the fire and insurance inspectors will comb the ashes and confirm that it was a lightning strike. I grew up near Chicago, and everything is suspicious.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  31. alaskanpiper

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    For your perusal Alaskanpiper.....

    https://flaviar.com/blog/no-age-statement-scotch-whisky

    ....and....

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-drink/whisky/forget-about-old-single-malts---give-no-age-statement-nas-whisky/

    Okay, I see what has happened here. You have either misunderstood the articles you read, or you misspoke in your initial statement. As the articles you posted state, and as I stated in my above post, there are offerings from some distilleries that do not carry an age statement, and these are commonly referred to as "No Age Statement" or NAS whiskies. But your statement that "age statements on bottles of scotch were done away with quite some while ago!" is wholly inaccurate and wildly misleading.

    If you read the articles you posted again more carefully, you will see that what they are saying is that NAS scotch whiskies are becoming more common, which is undoubtedly true, however the VAST MAJORITY of flagship single malt scotches, and the vast majority of the countries most famous brands still (and will likely always) carry an age statement proudly displayed on the label.

    Macallan 12, 18, and 25 will still be just that, even though they offer their No. series. Oban 14 and 18 will still be just that, even though they offer the NAS "little bay", Talisker 10, 18, and 25 will remain just that, even though they offer Talisker Storm, and Laphraoig 10, 18, etc. will still be just that even though they offer quarter cask and three wood..........and Duane's above posted Glenfiddich 12, as well as their 15 and 18, will stay just that, despite their NAS offerings as well, I could go on all day but it would get redundant.

    Anyway, I'm glad we cleared this up, as I thought you were completely insane. Looks like you just skimmed too quickly, or misspoke in your initial post.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  32. workman

    workman

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    I agree with Alaskanpiper. I'll add that the scenario described in the articles is likely to increase prices on aged single malts. Supply and demand.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  33. alaskanpiper

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    I would stress one last thing that I don't want to get lost in all of this, and that is that some NAS whiskies are truly fantastic offerings. I really like Talisker Storm, Oban Little Bay, Auchentoshan Three Wood, the Dalmore Cigar malt, Aberlour A'bunadh, Jura Superstition, and many many more. NAS whiskies have been around for a while and have definitely led to more creativity from the distillers, which I think is a very positive thing, even if it does slightly increase the price of the usual age carrying single malts a tad.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  34. workman

    workman

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    Apparently they make great whiskeys in Japan now. I have not been nerdy enough to check any of them out, as they are very expensive here, but there certainly is some innovation in the field.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  35. alaskanpiper

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    Apparently they make great whiskeys in Japan now.

    They do! Most of them are a lot like unpeated scotch whiskey, and they are typically very mildly flavored, easy to drink, and smooth bright whiskeys. They are certainly a little pricey, but there are some reasonably priced ones that can be found out there HIbiki, Yamazaki, and Nikka come to mind. Their baseline offerings on on par price-wise with your average 12 year, although that may not be the case where you are (I'm not sure where you live?)

    I'd suggest giving them a shot if you get the chance though. If you like very mildly peated scotch (speysides or lowlands) or irish whiskeys, then japanese whiskey will likely be right up your alley.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  36. workman

    workman

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    I'm in the Faroe Islands. I like all good whiskeys. When I was younger, I fell for the strong peat flavors. Laphroaig, Lagavulin etc. Lately I'm leaning more towards sherry or madeira cask offerings from Glenmorangie and Glenkinchie. It's a journey, much like pipe tobacco.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  37. alaskanpiper

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    Whoa! I've always wanted to visit the Faroe islands. Having spent so much time in Prudhoe Bay, particularly Northstar Island, I have somewhat of a passion for "ends of the earth" isolated locales. Glenkinchie is an absolutely awesome lowland whiskey, particularly their barrel aged distillers edition. If you like them give Auchentoshan whiskies a try if you haven't already. Their three wood is a classic lowland, and if you want to splurge, their 21 year is one of the most affordable whiskies with a 20+ age statement available.

    Port Dundas 18 single grain is another whiskey with a similar profile. You may also like Craigellechie, Tomatin, Dalwhinnie distillers edition (or the regular 15 year) and some of the lower peated Bruichladdich and Bunnahabhain offerings. You may have had many of those already, but they all gave similar profiles.

    If you like the heavily sherried stuff, then obviously Macallan and Balvenie tend to be the most readily available, but Aberlour is my favorite speyside for heavily sherried offerings. Their 16 year is usually a bargain, and their cask strength abunadh is a beast, usually coming in around 60% abv, but it has the richest sherry flavor of any scotch I have tried. Aside from that the Dalmore is a great sherry heavy distillery, particularly their 15 year and cigar malt. Also, to mix it up there is an irish whiskey called the Tyrconnell. Their flagship offering isn't great, but their sherry and madeira barrel aged offerings (slightly more pricey at $70) are excellent whiskeys.

    And yes, it is certainly a journey, one that can suck time and money just as quickly as pipe tobacco or any other pleasurable indulgence.

    Are you able to order whiskey online and have it shipped to you?

    Posted 1 month ago #
  38. gerryp

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    Jim Beam is not good bourbon, but I sure have put away lots of it over the years. It goes well with a chaser...

    Anywho Jim Beam Black is pretty good, I think. I used to buy Jim Beam Rye when it was 10 bucks a bottle. Now that hipsters like rye it's become $20/bottle and not worth it.

    frozenchurchwarden: Try McClelland's Islay. it's supposed to be 5ish yr. old Bowmore. People online like to hate on it, but I think it's not bad and it only costs about $20.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  39. alaskanpiper

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    Lagavulin makes an 8 year old that is quite nice as well.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  40. mawnansmiff

    mawnansmiff

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    Laphroaig scotch is the only scotch I truly detest. To me (and many others it seems) it tasted chemical-like though I'm not for one moment suggesting it contains any such.

    I think the best malt I ever had was Cardhu 15 year old, now that was a cracker!

    Regards,

    Jay.

    Posted 1 month ago #
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    paulfg

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    JAY loss of Jim Beam is not at disaster
    this was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Beer_Flood
    I prefer beer to Scotch whisky dont Irish whiskey or bourbon at all,each to there own

    Posted 1 month ago #
  42. mso489

    mso489

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    I've settled on bourbon, but I rarely drink liquor. A bottle can last for years with me. Jim Beam would probably taste okay to me. But since I keep it as a mascot, my brand is fancier stuff.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  43. mawnansmiff

    mawnansmiff

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    Here you go Duane....

    GLENFIDDICH LAUNCHES FIRST NO-AGE STATEMENT COLLECTION

    https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2013/09/glenfiddich-launches-first-no-age-statement-collection/

    Regards,

    Jay.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  44. chasingembers

    chasingembers

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    Okay, so it's limited to the Cask Collection. I thought you meant it applied to all of them. According to that article that line was launched in 2014. I've never seen any of them.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  45. alaskanpiper

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    In addition to those they also make one that was aged in casks that used to hold IPA. (Likely english style IPA though, which is quite a bit weaker, and milder in flavor than its american counterparts, which for this use is probably a good thing). All the cask collection are decent offerings. If you are a glennfiddich fan you will enjoy them.

    Jameson makes an irish IPA cask whiskey as well, the glenfiddich one is far better.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  46. chasingembers

    chasingembers

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    If you are a glennfiddich fan you will enjoy them.

    I may give them a go. Usually, I pick up a bottle of 18 Year for my birthday. The 12 Year was for friends and family during the Independence Day festivities. I'm greedy.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  47. alaskanpiper

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    The 18 is a nice whiskey. Especially for the price. Have you branched out and tried any other scotches with a similar profile at all?

    Posted 1 month ago #
  48. chasingembers

    chasingembers

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    Though over the years Glenfiddich has become my mainstay, I do enjoy Macallan 12 Year, Glenlivet 15 Year, Johnnie Walker Gold Label Reserve, and Kilchoman Sauternes Cask Finish. I'll always be more of a rum guy though.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  49. alaskanpiper

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    Kilchoman is an awesome new little distillery, really like the products they are putting out. If you like macallan 12 try Aberlour 16 if you feel like shaking it up (and if you haven't already). Better product less money IMO.

    I like rum every now and then. We have a bottle of Kirk and Sweeney (23 I think?) right now that I'll hit up every now and then. I like it well enough, probably my favorite rum to drink straight, at least as of yet, but I have not tried that many. You will probably want to slap me for saying this, but I also like Pyrat quite a bit. I know it's probably far from the rum connoisseur's preference, but it's got a unique flavor that I enjoy on occasion. Most of the rum in our house is my wife's Koloa stash for mixers though. I can tolerate the Koloa dark straight when I have a sweet tooth.

    Any rum recommendations?

    Posted 1 month ago #
  50. jaytex969

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    I drink a lot of rum and brandy/cognac lately.

    I like trying many different ones and they need not be "top shelf" to enjoy a decent and unique flavor.

    My wife has been on a Dark & Stormy kick lately. We like using Gosling's Black Seal rum for making those.

    "A Dark 'n' Stormy is a highball cocktail made with dark rum and ginger beer served over ice and garnished with a slice of lime. Lime juice is also frequently added. This drink is very similar to the Moscow mule except that it has dark rum instead of vodka."

    Ingredients: 3 1/3 oz Ginger Beer, Couple dashes of bitters, 2 oz Dark Rum
    Preparation: In a highball glass filled with ice, add dark rum and top with ginger beer. Garnish with lime wedge.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  51. mawnansmiff

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    "Likely english style IPA though, which is quite a bit weaker, and milder in flavor than its american counterparts...."

    I wouldn't say that Shepherd Neame's IPA is either weak in flavour nor alcohol content at 6.1% abv.

    Bear in mind, India/Imperial Pale Ale was traditionally made as a strong ale to endure the lengthy journey form England to India etc.

    https://www.shepherdneame.co.uk/beer/india-pale-ale

    That said, I do enjoy what American IPA bottled ales that are available here. Shipyard springs to mind, a gorgeously smooth and very hoppy ale..yum yum! I buy it often.

    "I like rum every now and then... "

    Have you tried Wood's 100? At 57% abv it's a really smooth and toffee tasting Guianan rum aged in Scotland (of all places) for at least 7 years.

    Regards,

    Jay.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  52. timelord

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    Apparently they make great whiskeys in Japan now. I have not been nerdy enough to check any of them out, as they are very expensive here, but there certainly is some innovation in the field.

    Workman. They do; I tried a few when I was working in Tokyo a few years ago. But I see you like Laphroaig - so do I - but did you know that Laphroaig is owned by Suntory? So it is a 'Japanese Whiskey', only it's made in Islay by Scots

    Posted 1 month ago #
  53. alaskanpiper

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    [quote]I wouldn't say that Shepherd Neame's IPA is either weak in flavour nor alcohol content at 6.1% abv.[quote]

    Yes, I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule, but generally speaking the overwhelming majority of American IPAs are both stronger (6-7% abv is the norm for a single IPA, with double/triple iterations as high as 12%) as well as waaaaaaay more hoppy than english IPAs, particularly the west coast variants.

    Yes, well aware of IPAs origins. The boys in India needed their appropriately hopped ale despite it's long journey. Similar to the origin story for yet another great style of beer with origins in England, that of Russian Imperial Stout. Had to survive quite the carriage ride to remain suitable upon arrival in the east!

    English IPA and American IPA are really two completely different styles of beer. English iterations typically use hop varieties such as Fuggles or English Kent Goldings, that are lower in Alpha acid (4-6%) whereas american west coast IPAs typically use hops like centennials, CTZ, Magnums, etc that can push 10-12% alpha acid. They are also loaded with these bittering hops in the early part of the boil resulting in a much more bold and bitter flavor than their english ancestors. Not to mention the obvious differences in base malt (typically america 2 row, vs marris otter or golden promise)

    To anyone used to english style IPAs, west coast american IPAs are quite the slap in the face. IPAs from the US east coast (such as your shipyard example, depending on which of their many offerings you are referencing) are much milder, but still typically more aggressive than english style IPAs. Although, the east coast brewing world has changed quite a bit recently, and there are some pretty big IPAs coming out of EC breweries in recent years that rival some west coast iterations.

    Have not tried to Wood's 100. I'll check and see if it is available here next time I hit the LC. Thanks for the recommendation!

    Posted 1 month ago #
  54. chasingembers

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    If you can find a bottle of Oronoco, it is heavenly. Appleton Estate and Captain Morgan Black are my go tos, but Rumchata has it's moments.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  55. alaskanpiper

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    Noted! Thanks Cap!

    Posted 1 month ago #
  56. mawnansmiff

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    "English iterations typically use hop varieties such as Fuggles or English Kent Goldings, that are lower in Alpha acid (4-6%) whereas american west coast IPAs typically use hops like centennials, CTZ, Magnums, etc that can push 10-12% alpha acid"

    I once had a gorgeous bottled American IPA (whose name escapes me right now) that claimed to have used no fewer than 22 different hop varieties

    If memory serves it was something like 7% abv and was to die for. I do like my hoppy ales!

    I'll be trying Goose Island IPA (5.9%) next week for the first time.

    Ever tried Guinness Foreign Extra stout? At 7.5% abv it's very smooth indeed.

    Another to look out for is Robinson's Old Tom, brewed in Manchester it comes in at 8.5% abv and on the label it states that it ages in the same way as does wine. I can verify that as I've had it at 5 years old and it really was a treat!

    Regards,

    Jay.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  57. alaskanpiper

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    I once had a gorgeous bottled American IPA (whose name escapes me right now) that claimed to have used no fewer than 22 different hop varieties

    Yeah, about 15 years ago the hophead train took off in the United States and since then it's become an absolutely insane hopfest in the American craft beer industry. Breweries creating hopping torpedoes over the kettles, "Randall's" to filter beer through, and beers that are 12%, 200 IBU monstrosities. All for the good though, some truly incredible offerings out there.

    If memory serves it was something like 7% abv and was to die for. I do like my hoppy ales!

    I'm not sure what kind of distribution from the states you get where you are located, but if you can find some IPA made by Sierra Nevada Brewing Company, their IPAs are pretty classic examples of American West Coast IPAs. Particularly Torpedo IPA (7.2%, 65 IBUs). Some others that may be findable are Green Flash West Coast IPA, Firestone Walker Union Jack IPA (funny, you'd think it'd be english, but its waaaay not), almost any IPA made by Stone Brewing Co., Russian River Blind Pig IPA, Ballast Point Sculpin IPA, Lagunitas IPA, or Bear Republic Racer 5 IPA.

    I'll be trying Goose Island IPA (5.9%) next week for the first time

    Goose island IPA is a good beer, but coincidentally (somewhat more rare among us breweries) is an homage to English style IPAs. However, also coincidentally, in speaking to strong stouts, Goose Island's Bourbon County Stout is one of the most famous (and a very delicious) examples of Imperial Stout made in the United States. It is aged in Bourbon Barrels, and clocks in at 15.2% abv. It is quite good, but a bottle to be shared for sure. Unfortunately, Goose Island is now owned by Anheuser-Busch (InBev) so we'll see what (if any) influence that has on their product. So far, at least in the offerings we get in Alaska, it seems fairly minimal.

    Ever tried Guinness Foreign Extra stout? At 7.5% abv it's very smooth indeed

    Yes, I have and it is a great beer! The best product Guinness makes, IMO. Unfortunately it is one of the few Guinness products that can be tougher to find in the US. In Alaska we seem to only get the flagship offerings, specialty brews, and the "regular" extra stout, which is nowhere near as good.

    Some interesting reading for you.....gives a decent summary of the (major) various types of IPA in the world.......

    https://www.craftbeering.com/english-ipa-vs-american-ipa/

    Posted 1 month ago #
  58. alaskanpiper

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    Another to look out for is Robinson's Old Tom, brewed in Manchester it comes in at 8.5% abv and on the label it states that it ages in the same way as does wine. I can verify that as I've had it at 5 years old and it really was a treat!

    In addition to the above post, I'll add that no, I have not had the Robinson's but I'll look it up and see if I can find it.

    And yes, some styles of beer can age very gracefully for a few years (and in some cases more) in the cellar. Imperial Stouts and Barleywines (particularly english style barleywines) can really benefit from 2-5 years in the cellar. Belgian style sour beers (wild lambics) can age well for 20 years or more. Additionally, any beer brewed with brettanomyces usually ages quite well for a few years.

    Some other larger styles of belgian beer (quadrupels mostly) can also age quite gracefully, with some people putting as much as 20 years on them (Chimay blue being the prime example and most widely consumed and/or cellared).

    You do have to be somewhat careful with cellaring beer though. It is not that uncommon for beers that claim to "age like fine wine" to do exactly that, but only for a couple years. I personally wouldn't put more than 10 years on anything other than a sour lambic. Most Imperial Stouts/Barleywine's/Belgian Quads do well with 2-5 years IMO. After that they get fairly oxidized and start to take on a bready/cardboardy taste and thin out a little bit.

    As a general rule (to which there are always some exceptions) I wouldn't age anything that is hop forward (IPAs/Double IPAs) or less than 8%abv, unless it is either a sour lambic/wild ale, or loaded with brettanomyces.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  59. mawnansmiff

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    Ha!!! Thank you Alaskanpiper, Lagunitas IPA is the gorgeous ale whose name escaped me.

    For some reason it suddenly disappeared from the supermarket where I get my ales.

    You mention Chimay Blue, wow, not had Chimay ales since sampling them in Belgium back in the 80's.

    There was also an ale called Kriek (?) that was infused with raspberries, quite delightful it was.

    That said, the only fruit infused ale I drink now is Elvis Juice brewed by Brewdog in Edinburgh. At 6.5% it's a beauty.

    "Elvis Juice is loaded with a tart pithy grapefruit peel.
    This IPA has a caramel malt base, supporting a full frontal citrus overload - grapefruit peel piled on top of intense US aroma hops.
    "

    Regards,

    Jay.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  60. alaskanpiper

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    No prob, figured it may be one of those, some of them are the most widely distributed.

    Chimay is far and away the most widely distributed and consumed of the trappist ales. You should easily be able to find it in the UK. If you like it, try similar beers from Rochefort (10 or 8), Westmalle, Achel, la Trappe, and Koenigshaven. If you ever make it back to belgium, Westvleteren 12 (or any of their other beers) are a must try, but are only sold at the monastery. These are all trappist abbey ales similar to chimay. There are a lot of other great belgian quads out there that are not trappist made ales as well.

    Kriek is still made and widely available, and it is actually infused with cherries. It is typically a very sour lambic made by many different belgian (and now american) brewers. Usually made with wild yeast and spontaneously fermented, then barrel aged with cherries. Some examples that may be easier examples to find today are Cantillon Kriek, Boon Oude Kriek and Marriage Parfait Kriek, Oud Beersel Oude Kriek, New Belgium Brewing Krieks (they make a few), 3 fonteinen kriek, Hanssen's Oude Kriek, or Lindeman's Cuvee Renee Kriek (NOT the usual Lindemans, which call themselves lambic, but are really much more like fruit beer [a style of its own that is not sour])

    There are other sour lambics made with all types of fruit though (raspberries, blueberries, currants, peach, etc.) so the one you had may well have had raspberries, it just probably wouldn't carry the "kriek" on the label, which is typically on used when morello cherries are utilized. All of these sour lambics age beautifully, for decades, but sour beers are an acquired taste for many.

    If the one you remember was not sour, and only "tart" it was likely Lindeman's "regular" Kriek, which is more like a sweet fruit beer and can be found everywhere along with their Cassis, Peach, Apple and other varieties. My wife loves them mixed 50/50 with champagne, hahaha.

    We get many brewdog offerings here, but I have not seen Elvis Juice. I'll keep an eye out for it. I like many of their beers, others I am not a huge fan of. They are well known for making some of the most high abv beers on the planet though, some pushing 55% abv and some sold inside stuffed squirrels (not kidding). A crazy brewery.

    If you are a beer fan, or interested in craft beer, i'd recommend checking out beeradvocate.com. You can find information on almost any beer on the planet, as well as reviews. They have forums similar to this one as well where one can get recommendations, discuss beers and their availability/merits. etc. It can be a rabbit hole like this forum, or just an easy resource for getting beer ratings and reviews.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  61. mawnansmiff

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    Alaskanpiper, I'm pretty sure the Kriek I had was raspberry and not cherry....but it was a while ago.

    "They are well known for making some of the most high abv beers on the planet though, some pushing 55% abv and some sold inside stuffed squirrels (not kidding). A crazy brewery."

    Yup, I know all about them and some and yes, crazy as a bag of snakes!

    Regards,

    Jay.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  62. alaskanpiper

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    Alaskanpiper, I'm pretty sure the Kriek I had was raspberry and not cherry....but it was a while ago.

    It very well may have been, who knows, but typically those would be labeled "framboise"

    Posted 1 month ago #
  63. seldom

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    Apparently they make great whiskeys in Japan now. I have not been nerdy enough to check any of them out, as they are very expensive here, but there certainly is some innovation in the field.

    Very true! I was in Japan for an international wildlife research conference some years ago. I can tell you that the Japanese "Scotch" whisky I tasted there was truly exceptional.

    Also, not a typo, they spell whiskey without the e there.

    Seldom Seen
    Posted 1 month ago #
  64. alaskanpiper

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    Taiwan and India as well now. Although the Japanese offerings are much more plentiful. The Taiwanese Kavalan is great whiskey though.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  65. mawnansmiff

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    Here we go, so my memory was good and it was indeed a raspberry flavoured kriek.

    Traditionally, kriek is made by breweries in and around Brussels using lambic beer to which sour cherries (with the pits) are added. A lambic is a sour and dry Belgian beer, fermented spontaneously with airborne yeast said to be native to Brussels; the presence of cherries (or raspberries) predates the almost universal use of hops as a flavoring in beer.

    Regards,

    Jay.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  66. mawnansmiff

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    When I mentioned above the American IPA whose name escaped me (Lagunitas) had no fewer than 22 different hop varieties I was wrong, very wrong....

    "With 43, yes count them, 43 different hops and 65 various malts, this is a well-rounded and highly drinkable IPA. It's a world classic. "

    ....and I'm delighted to report is back in stock at my supplier

    Regards,

    Jay.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  67. alaskanpiper

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    Traditionally, kriek is made by breweries in and around Brussels using lambic beer to which sour cherries (with the pits) are added. A lambic is a sour and dry Belgian beer, fermented spontaneously with airborne yeast said to be native to Brussels; the presence of cherries (or raspberries) predates the almost universal use of hops as a flavoring in beer.

    "Here we go, so my memory was good and it was indeed a raspberry flavoured kriek lambic."

    Simply a terminology issue here. Lambic is the style of beer. Kriek is a substyle of lambic, which utilizes cherries. There are other substyles of lambic that utilize other fruits, such as raspberries. If it said Kriek on the label, it was flavored with cherries I promise you.

    What you had was either a raspberry lambic, or a cherry lambic (kriek). Since Kriek is the word you recalled on your own, I suspect what you had was a cherry lambic (Kriek).

    Of course it is possible to use multiple fruits in the same lambic, so it may have been flavored with both, in which case I suppose it could be called a raspberry kriek?............this would be unusual, but I suppose possible.

    Glad to hear your Lagunitas is back in stock

    Posted 1 month ago #

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