A Question For The Blenders

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chilllucky

Lifer
Jul 15, 2018
1,114
2,804
Chicago, IL, USA
scoosa.com
Do you know the seed stock/variety name of the source tobacco? Or do you buy it by grade in mixed lots?
There are disconnects and changes in nomenclature between planters - graders - blenders - consumers that I am trying to sort out just well enough to be able to plant a garden.
For anyone else interested: This seed catalog lists nearly a hundred varieties of tobacco plant, loosely grouped into Burley, virginia, oriental, and cigar. Whereas this USDA tobacco grading guide lists more and less desirable characteristics for "Flue-Cured US Tobacco Types 11-14" with no direct mention of what plant variety one started with. Only where on the stalk it was and to what standards it was cured. Wholesalers buy up graded lots, blenders buy from them, and I buy something that says "selected viginias" on the label from my tobacconist.
Can anyone tell me what variety of virginias went into their blend? Is it likely to be one crop? Mixed regionally at the grading? Mixed grades at the warehouse? Does it really matter what plant you start with, or does the stalk position and cure mean more to the end product?

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,459
I don't know if blenders will share this kind of information, but I'll watch this space.

 

chilllucky

Lifer
Jul 15, 2018
1,114
2,804
Chicago, IL, USA
scoosa.com
If it's _the_ secret ingredient, no one needs to tell me if blend 'x' contains White Mammoth or Silver Dollar. I'm more curious about whether or not they even know.
Somewhere between the field and the bowl, it looks like which specific plant it was gives way to which family it was and how it was cured. I would like to know why.

 

ernieq

Might Stick Around
Aug 9, 2018
62
240
Well since I have experience as both a blender and a gardener, here's my chance to confuse the crap out of another innocent question poser.
First, take three seeds of say "Virginia". Plant one in Africa, one in Virginia and one in Brazil. You will get three distinctly different flavored leaves. Soil composition, climate...the manner in which it's cultivated...all have an effect on flavor.
Second, I don't know of one blending house in the USA or even abroad (I may be wrong) that grows their own leaf. Further 99.9% percent of shop blenders never use whole leaf at all...the tobacco comes from said blending houses already cased and cut.
Now casing comes into play. All tobacco blending houses case their tobacco. Every. Single. One. Every one has different state-secret-guarded recipes for different types of tobacco. Yes, casing serves the purpose of making tobaccos more palatable by accenting or serving to bring out the flavor of a certain variety of leaf. One thing casing does that doesn't get mentioned a lot is "Touch up" tobacco. It helps to make it taste consistent from crop to crop...and crops will vary from year to year. Casing helps greatly with consistency. This makes sense because you can't control mother nature or the climate in a given year, but you can control a recipe for a casing. (Many shop blenders, myself included, further doctor their blends with additional casings. For example, I find the casings on most of the cut Burley leaf I buy from the big blending houses still has a relatively high Ph and I use certain natural food grade products to bring that Ph. down even more)
So to get back to your query...it's kind of a crap-shoot. First, when I look at seed listings I always laugh when I see, say "Perique" seeds for sale. Perique, of course, is a process in which a certain varietal (I forget which one at the moment) is treated with fruit juices and fermented under tremendous pressure. You can't "grow" perique.
I don't work with leaf (much...I've released a couple limited, very labor intensive blends) but I have grown it for fun. Stick with basic names like "Tennesee Burley", "Virginia Bright leaf" and "Virginia Gold". Bright Virginia is particularly versatile though difficult to process without proper equipment and knowledge of processes, neither of which I possess yet).
You WILL need to case your harvested, cured leaf to make it smok-able...it's more of a personal thing for me, I guess, because I've never smoked an uncased leaf that I've not snuffed right back out.
When you get your stuff harvested shoot me a PM and I'll try and guide you through the curing and basic casing processes for different types of leaf. Keep in mind that air and sun cured leaf (Burley, Oriental) are easier to cure than, say, flue cured varieties like Virginia Bright.

Best,

Ernie Q.

 

ernieq

Might Stick Around
Aug 9, 2018
62
240
@woodsroad I remember back when I started blending how difficult it was to get information on casing etc...and honestly I never understood why. It's not like I'm going to give out my recipes, but for god's sake you gotta pay it forward a little.
Problem with growing your own is inconsistency and the difficulty in processing on a small scale. It can be done, but not without great pains in the ass. It's fun to try though, and it really gives you an appreciation for the farmers and processors...but I find working with pre-cut cured leaf to yield a much more satisfying end result...

 
First, take three seeds of say "Virginia". Plant one in Africa, one in Virginia and one in Brazil. You will get three distinctly different flavored leaves.

I think that this is the number one misconception in the tobacco world. It comes from an oversimplification of what happened to the Habana cigar leaf. But, as most growers/gardeners/botanists will will tell you, it isn't quite that simple. The exact same seed stock grown in all of those different places would be pretty close the first year... at least if the exact same leaf is harvested at the same developmental stages and cured the exact same. The second year of seeds would start to show differences, and over a few more years it would start to become more detectable to the layman, and the plant would start to show more visible differences. It's not as immediate as you'd think.
It does change in time, and it is also why tobacco processors would have to start casing their products. But, they don't have to reformulate every year. Changes aren't "one year" quick.
This is also behind the myth that you shouldn't plant bell peppers next to your hot peppers. You won't notice a difference in that years fruit. You're first year of peppers will taste like what you expect. But, the next year you may get some rather zesty bell peppers.
Commercial tobacco producers always utilize Virginia Gold variety, because that is what commercial growers use. You can cure it to a bright yellow, red or brown. The variety mentioned in those guides would be strains of Virginia Gold, using trade names. To get even more confusing, you have heirloom varieties from hobby growers making new strains of brightleaf from mixing their own Orinoco and VG varieties, plus environmental conditions in their areas.
But, Virginia Gold and it's hybrids are what is commercially grown, and is what is in most Virginia blends. There is also Ukrainian and Canadian varieties that you can find from the hobby grower sites. They are worth a try. But, now I grow Cherry Red. It is a Virginia Gold varietal that I have come to prefer after experimentation. As to burleys, I would just ask someone near by or go to your local co-op and ask what is grown in your area.
But, if you are trying to go into this with a preconceived idea of what your finished product will be, you are building a gold ring and then trying to cut the diamond to fit the gold. It's just way harder to do that. Just grow something your first year. Get some seeds, any seeds, and see what you get. I suggest burley to start with... unless you are willing to lose a lot of your crop from experiments. And, you have to be spot on ready at every stage with your flu set up, and times, and watching the flue. I enjoy it, but I lost a lots of crops to simple mistakes.
Don't worry about casings yet. Most likely you won't need any at all. Just try it without a casing first. You might like what you get. The only casing I will use (but I haven't in a few years) is just a mix of honey and distilled water. But, i have come to prefer the leaf as is, or toasted, or just blended with past year's crops.
Just get some seeds and start. You really aren't going to get the wrong thing unless you start playing with strange heirloom blends.
I grew VA Gold and African VA for my first four years. But, in hindsite, I wish I had either had my flue set up built before planting, or that I had of just randomly picked a burley seed until I had that down, and then moved into Virginias after I had the growing part down.
I hope that helps. Just shake off this idea of a preconceived flavor, and just let it surprise you. You can plan, case, and blend after that.

 
BTW, that seed website you posted, Victory seeds, was exactly what I meant when I said hobby growers. They have some good seeds, but there are so many mixes of homegrown backyard varietals on there, that is confusing as crap. My rec's to simplify this for you. VA Gold for your first Virginia. Tennessee Burley for your burley. And, rustica for your strongest burley. And, then maybe pick a few orientals to round out your first experience. But, if you go with a Virginia, build your flue now, and have it ready. You can get my times and temps for curing from the Cosmic Crop thread or I can share it with you in a PM.

 
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