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A & C Petersen Tobaccos Still Available?

(38 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by ohin3
  • Latest reply from peckinpahhombre
  1. ohin3

    ohin3

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    Does anyone know if A & C Petersen is still producing tobacco? I do notice that Escudo is still being sold under that moniker at Smokingpipes, but I never see any of their other tobaccos for sale on any site. My Local B & M had a half dozen tins of Caledonian Select Reserve No. 466 left till I spotted them and buddy is looking into availability but he moves slower than shit rolling up hill in the winter. The Caledonian Special Reserve line was so so so so good. Would love to get my hands on the navy blue tins which were Virginia/perique, and their Oriental mixtures are some of the very finest. Any help is much appreciated.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. 4noggins

    4noggins

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    I believe A & C Petersen is alive and well but does not export their product into the USA. That's why none of the retailers here have their blends available.

    Rich
    4noggins.com

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. ohin3

    ohin3

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    Hmmm...I will have to see if my B&M guy here can get them. Thanks for the info Rich.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    Anonymous

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    I am surprised (and disappointed) that so many pipe tobacco blends like A&C Petersen, Three Nuns, Capstan, Saint Bruno and dozens of others are sold and well liked in Europe, but haven't been picked up by a U.S. distributor yet. Come on, it's not like these long-established blends just came out!

    Did anyone publish an article about why that is the case? If so, I must have missed it. I don't know if my answer to this is "it's the economy, stupid," and I certainly don't have an MBA in international marketing, but come on -- there's gotta be money to be made here -- why isn't anyone picking up distribution for Capstan and those other great blends and selling them on this side of the pond?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. cigrmaster

    cigrmaster

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    roth, the only thing I can figure is that they don't make enough to satisfy demand over there so why export it here if the supply will be minuscule? I would think that a company would want to be represented here, considering how large the market is, but they must be making enough money so they don't have to.

    Escudo is no longer being made by AC Peterson.

    Harris
    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. sparroa

    simenon

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    I believe they were afraid of liability in future Big Tobacco lawsuits in the litigious US of A...

    I have read something to that effect, though I must admit I am too lazy to find supporting documentation.

    I will agree, though, that it is quite a shame that we cannot obtain many marvelous European blends...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. jpberg

    jpberg

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    Who's making it?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. lordwolf

    lordwolf

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    oh Escudo.... Always keep a few tins of that stuff lying around. ^_^

    Smoke your pipe and be silent; there's only wind and smoke in the world. ~Irish Proverb
    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. sparroa

    simenon

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    Escudo is made by STG, aka Orlik.

    Numerous etailers still list it under A&C Petersen - I don't mind because it makes it easier to find.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. hfearly

    hfearly

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    A & C Petersen SA went out of business in 2011:

    Overview
    Entry in the commercial register:14.04.1998
    Deletion from the commercial register:21.09.2011
    Legal domicile of the company: Zug (ZG)

    Number of the commercial register:CH-170.3.022.040-1
    Commercial Registry:Canton of Zug

    Alfred & Christian Petersen SA, in Zug, CH-170.3.022.040-1, Aktiengesellschaft (SHAB Nr. 93 vom 17.05.2010, S. 23, Publ. 5633520). Aktiven und Passiven (Fremdkapital) gehen infolge Fusion auf die American-Cigarette Company (Overseas) Limited, in Zug (CH-170.3.015.248-5), über. Die Gesellschaft wird gelöscht.

    The German text is saying they were bought by the American Cigarette Company Ltd.

    However, the trade mark for "ESCUDO" was already sold to Orlik / Scandinavian Tobacco Group in 2004 (not that it says March 2006, but the application to transfer the trademark to STG was already placed in 2004, so they had already taken over back then.

    ESCUDO Trademark 78474633

    Trademark Serial #:78474633
    Trademark Date:03/21/2006
    Current Status:PUBLICATION AND ISSUE SECTION
    Status Date:03/21/2006
    Employee Name:CHOSID, ROBIN S
    Address:HANNAH Y. CHUNG, ESQ.
    COWAN, LIEBOWITZ & LATMAN, P.C.
    1133 AVENUE OF THE AMERICAS
    NEW YORK NY 10036-6710

    Trademark Details
    "NAVY DE LUXE" and "FINE TOBACCO"

    The mark consists of the word ESCUDO in an arc shape, enclosed in a circle (together with the words NAVY DE LUXE and FINE TOBACCO).

    PIPE TOBACCO

    The English translation of the Spanish word "Escudo" in the mark is "shield".

    Trademark Owners
    Owner Name:SCANDINAVIAN TOBACCO GROUP ASSENS A/SAddress:TOBAKSVEJ 1
    ASSENS DK-5610Nationality Country:DKNationality State:N/A
    Additional Owner
    Owner Name:ORLIK TOBACCO COMPANY A/SAddress:TOBAKSVEJ 1
    ASSENS 5610Nationality Country:DKNationality State:N/A
    Additional Owner
    Owner Name:Alfred & Christian Petersen SAAddress:Zaehlerweg 4
    Zug CH-6300Nationality Country:CHNationality State:N/A

    Now I still have a tin from November 2005 in my cellar which has the AC Peterson labeling, but it's possible that it is already the new product (production at Orlik), but still having the old labeling because the trademark had not been transferred yet to STG. So if you want the original old Escudo product make sure to look for tins earlier than August 2004.

    Suffering from a serious case of "EPARD", also known as the Estate Pipe Acquisition and Restoration Disorder.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. jpberg

    jpberg

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    I don't have any that new. All mine say Cope's.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. cigrmaster

    cigrmaster

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    Jp, are you serious? If you are those tins are worth a ton.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. sparroa

    simenon

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    You are smoking the good stuff, then, because Cope's Escudo is quite a bit older than A&C Petersen.

    You will only find the STG Escudo at the major etailers - it has been that way for a number of years.

    The transition dates are before my time, but consider yourself fortunate to have such old stock on hand.

    hfearly, thanks for doing that homework for us.

    Escudo was the name of an old Spanish/Portuguese coin - quite a fitting name.

    Anyway ohin we have gotten off track but it looks like A&C Petersen bit the dust last year.

    I don't know if they have licensed their products to anyone else in advance, or if the assets were scooped up, or if they are lost to the sands of time...

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    john218

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    Has anybody ordered those blends from overseas tobacco shops?

    If so, what has your experience been with customs, import duties, etc.?

    "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power"

    Abraham Lincoln
    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. jpberg

    jpberg

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    Jp, are you serious? If you are those tins are worth a ton.

    I have a couple sleeves that I bought in 87 or 88. I've smoked some since, but it's not really my bag.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    Anonymous

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    Has anybody ordered those blends from overseas tobacco shops?

    If so, what has your experience been with customs, import duties, etc.?

    You can't.

    Well, you can, but it's complicated. And often illegal.

    So, no, you can't.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. sparroa

    simenon

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    Even if it's not illegal (and I am not sure of the status) you cannot use a credit card so that makes it majorly inconvenient and risky.

    On top of that, the tobacco taxes already make the tobacco cost double from the get go - add in shipping and possible duties and it is easy to see why its an uncommon practise...

    jpberg,

    I don't know why you are sitting on those tins if they are not really your style. You could sell them for a pretty penny or use them as trade bait for just about any tobacco in the world.

    Anyway, suit yourself! I'm sure they are good whenever you do get around to smoking them.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. ohin3

    ohin3

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    Wow so I made the right move to buy up the last of those Select Reserve no. 466 tins. Bummer that they went out of business. The Caledonian Virginias were so tasty.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. misterlowercase

    misterlowercase

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    Did anyone publish an article about why that is the case? If so, I must have missed it. I don't know if my answer to this is "it's the economy, stupid," and I certainly don't have an MBA in international marketing, but come on -- there's gotta be money to be made here -- why isn't anyone picking up distribution for Capstan and those other great blends and selling them on this side of the pond?

    Roth, this is a bone of contention with me too. I wish there was an article published somewhere explaining it all, but I haven't seen one anywhere and I've been looking into the issue a good bit lately.

    It's really a shame because they are good stuff, however many are only former shadows of what they once were now that they're made in Denmark or Germany. Most of the ones we'd like to get are very old recipes and have very long histories, but for the most part they're all OTC or "newsagent" brands which have been traded back 'n forth amongst various entities and all the merger activity has made international trademarks a very convoluted matter.

    The short answer:
    Many companies didn't want to pay extortion money to the govt and thus decided to pull out of the American market instead. This was due to the MSA settlement & later the PACT act.
    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/s1147
    PACT act

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agreement
    1998

    "...the companies agreed to curtail or cease certain tobacco marketing practices, as well as to pay, in perpetuity, various annual payments to the states to compensate them for some of the medical costs of caring for persons with smoking-related illnesses."

    http://bat.library.ucsf.edu/history.html

    The long answer:
    This requires a lot a boring reading about business matters. Many issues stem from the massive amalgamation that went on in the British tobacco industry where the companies where all gobbled up and put under one roof. Famous blends were assets, like Three Nuns which was created by Bell's who merged with Stephen Mitchell & Sons in 1904 then in 1957 amalgamated with W.D. & H.O. Wills.

    Some of the original UK tobacco houses:

    Belfast, Murray & Sons
    Belfast, Thom. Gallaher
    Bristol, Edwards, Ringer
    Bristol, Franklyn, Davey
    Bristol, Hudden & Co
    Bristol, W O Bigg
    Bristol, WO & HD Wills
    Devizes, G & W Anstie
    Cork & Dundalk, TR & R Goodbody
    Dublin, PJ Carroll & Co
    Exeter, Lloyd
    Edinburgh, John Cotton
    Glasgow, F & J Smith
    Glasgow, J & F Bell
    Glasgow, Stephen Mitchell & Son
    Paisley, George Dobie & Son
    Liverpool, Cope Bros.
    Liverpool, Hignett Bros.
    Liverpool, Ogden's
    Liverpool, Wm Clarke & Son
    London, American Tobacco Co
    London, B Morris & Son
    London, Carreras
    London, Cohen, Weenen
    London, Lambert & Butler
    London, Lloyd
    London, Taddy & Company
    Newcastle, John Sinclair
    Nottingham, John Player & Sons

    Now the trademarks for blends developed by many of these old companies are either owned by interests in Denmark or Germany, or in the case of Gallaher's, in Japan:
    2007
    TOKYO — Japan Tobacco has acquired Gallaher Group for $15 billion, both sides said Wednesday, in what was the biggest Japanese overseas acquisition ever.

    BAT owned a large portion of the trademarks and sold them all off.

    In 2004, Bat shut down the Murray's factory:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3957589.stm

    Some history here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Tobacco

    https://www.imperial-tobacco.com/index.asp?page=43

    Comprehensive reading here:
    W. D. and H. O. Wills and the Development of the UK Tobacco Industry: 1786-1965

    It's really a bummer how the grand old UK tobacco houses have been cannibalized beyond belief, a sad story.

    I think the whole story has a merit of interest and I'd like to get some solid answers, but really I just don't know.

    Castles made of sand.

    ...
    ..
    .

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. cigrmaster

    cigrmaster

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    I have a couple sleeves that I bought in 87 or 88. I've smoked some since, but it's not really my bag.

    JP, you do realize what kind of money those tins can bring right? I would not be surprised if they went for well over 200.00 each. Another 10 years and they will go for probably double that.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    Anonymous

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    Look, I get a headache even thinking about it.

    If it's not sold here, and not sold here now, I don't freakin' care.

    I do not want to over think it, end of story.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. misterlowercase

    misterlowercase

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    I hear ya, it can be maddening!

    I'm just fascinated with this stuff, especially on the historical tip of the divergence between American and British tobacco production, our stuff was nothing like theirs in large part due to the Purity Law in the UK and also many of the odd scents/flavours came about b/c many of them started out in snuff which had a broad range of different aromas applied in the manufacture.

    This quote from a snuff miller in 1789 could very well be applied to British pipe tobacco as well, the specific scents of Condor, St. Bruno, Erinmore et al

    "There are secrets of infinite consequence to the possessors - it is upon philosophical principles and by a philosophical process that a snuff manufacturer works his snuff, and which process he has formed on great attention, industry, experience, and observation of the natural qualities of different sorts of tobacco - and by which means he has acquired a peculiarity of flavour known only to himself."

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    john218

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    Lots of interesting information here.

    Thanks, rothtnh and simenon for the feedback on buying from overseas.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. rmbittner

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    ohin3:

    I think we might share a similar passion: Petersen's Caledonian Curly Cut Melange #410.

    Now, folks who know me here will know that I've said I get a terrible oral reaction to perique -- a painful, needle-like sensation. But this is the one blend I've tried that I've found so delicious, I smoke it despite the pain. Terrific stuff. (I found it on store shelves in the 80s; since then, I've only seen it pop up once on eBay, and I snagged it.)

    BTW, this is an empty tin, I'm sorry to say!

    Bob

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. ohin3

    ohin3

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    Curly Cut 410 is outstanding tobacco but it's the Original Navy Cut 499 makes me go weak in the knees. Never Smoked the Select reserve 466 till recently but it is so friggin' good. I really dig Oriental heavy English blends and this one is superb. Lots of sweet spice and incense flavours and aromas and that just does it for me. Glad I snagged that 6 tins when I had the chance. Wish I could share some with all of you and that it was still available because it really is a tobacco to behold.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    Anonymous

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    I don't know why you are sitting on those tins if they are not really your style. You could sell them for a pretty penny or use them as trade bait for just about any tobacco in the world.

    I'm thinking jpberg isn't interested in selling his stash of Cope's. As Harris says here:

    JP, you do realize what kind of money those tins can bring right? I would not be surprised if they went for well over 200.00 each. Another 10 years and they will go for probably double that.

    I mean ... what's the rush?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. jpberg

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    Yes. There's no rush to sell any of this stuff. I'd just get money to buy tobacco that possibly isn't as good.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. hfearly

    hfearly

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    Good score on the Caledonian 466, by the way. It hasn't been imported to the US since 2001. I have 4 tins from the early 90s (Made in Denmark, painted lid) in my cellar. Maybe I'll open up one to see how the flavor has mixed after 20 years

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. garyovich

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    When did escudo changeover from a&cp to STG occur? I have lots of pre STG tins and I'm not sure how old they are. I've had them at least 4 years.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. dukdalf

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    Ah, the Caledonian #466: I have four or five tins left from the nineties and they only seem to get better with time. My all-time favourite tobacco. I'll trade a tin of their Highland Cream for it any day...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  31. sparroa

    simenon

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    gary,

    From what misterlowercase posted above it looks like the blender that is today STG took over around 2004, more or less.

    Misterlowercase,

    Thank you for the incredible amount of information, by the way. I also thank you for fleshing out my answer to this question of why these European blends are not on the market - I knew that it had to do with a tobacco settlement but I wasn't sure which one...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  32. hfearly

    hfearly

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    If anyone wants to trade a 499 (you give to me) for a 466 (I give to you) with me, please get in contact with me

    Posted 1 year ago #
  33. garyovich

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    Simenon, yes I saw that. However if someone can either back me up, or correct me; I don't believe that's when the label changed to the current one with the STG logo on it...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  34. garyovich

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    Edit: double post...I'd like to blame the stupid iPhone, but probably user error.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  35. hfearly

    hfearly

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    Simenon, yes I saw that. However if someone can either back me up, or correct me; I don't believe that's when the label changed to the current one with the STG logo on it...

    as I wrote earlier up in the thread:

    However, the trade mark for "ESCUDO" was already sold to Orlik / Scandinavian Tobacco Group in 2004 (not that it says March 2006, but the application to transfer the trademark to STG was already placed in 2004, so they had already taken over back then.
    Now I still have a tin from November 2005 in my cellar which has the AC Peterson labeling, but it's possible that it is already the new product (production at Orlik), but still having the old labeling because the trademark had not been transferred yet to STG. So if you want the original old Escudo product make sure to look for tins earlier than August 2004.

    Around August 2004 - Production goes from A&C Peterson to Orlik/STG
    Around March 2006 - Orlik/STG win the trademark and start re-labling the tins.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  36. peckinpahhombre

    peckinpahhombre

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    Looks like most recent change was around 2009:

    http://pipetobaccocellar.blogspot.ca/2011/01/escudo-tin-date-codes.html

    Posted 1 year ago #
  37. peckinpahhombre

    peckinpahhombre

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    garyovitch - try dating your tins based on link above (not sure if that site is reliable)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  38. hfearly

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    Wouldn't put it past them to use up all the stock of tins labels and product first, though 3 years may be stretching it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  39. peckinpahhombre

    peckinpahhombre

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    Agreed, it does seem like a stretch

    Posted 1 year ago #

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