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7 Day Prince Set w/ 7 Pipe Makers

(43 posts)
  • Started 3 years ago by The Pipe Monk
  • Latest reply from The Pipe Monk
  1. disinformatique

    The Pipe Monk

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    Hi Guys,

    As you all know I am a big fan of the Prince Shape. For 2016 I decided not to go into impulse buying mode, as PAD landed me with 100 pipes in 2015; 80% of which need to be restored. I really appreciate and admire the patience of veteran pipe smokers in our community for slowly making their dream sets. Thanks to Tarheel, I've been inspired to get a 7 Day Prince Set made in the next few years.

    Dunhills from the 1920's - 1940's fascinate me when it comes to certain shapes and The Prince is one of them.

    This is my inspiration for the set from The Dark Lord's Collection

    I would really appreciate your help and advice in choosing the perfect pipe maker for the pipes. I also blame Our Dark Lord Latakia for the Dunhill/Castello/GBD Obsession. I have a few pipe makers in my mind for the 7 pipes but the list is not complete. I have 2 more pipe makers in my mind, but I am not sure. Discussing with the brothers here will be really helpful.

    Can you please help me out in my adventure?

    Here is my current lineup. I had Shin-Ichi Kuwahara in my list as well, but sadly he passed away last month in a tragic motorcycle accident in Japan.

    1. Clark Layton
    2. Chris Askwith
    3. Mike Butera
    4. Chris Asteriou
    5.
    6.
    7.

    Cheers,
    Chris

    Albert Einstein was once quoted as saying, “I believe that pipe smoking contributes to a somewhat calm and objective judgment in all human affairs.” One of the reasons behind this statement is that pipe smoking is meant to be a slow leisurely activity. It takes patience to smoke a pipe. Unlike cigarettes and cigars, there is a certain amount of technique to smoking a pipe. Where cigars and cigarettes can just be picked up, lit and puffed on, pipes require the development of a technique in order to get the best smoking experience.
    Posted 3 years ago #
  2. pitchfork

    pitchfork

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    I don't recall ever seeing a Butera prince. That doesn't mean there isn't one, of course.

    Both Askwith and Asteriou do great renditions of the classic shapes, so I think those are great choices.

    Also, Michail Kyriazanos and K. Anastasopoulos do a nice rendition of the shape.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  3. meatballj

    meatballj

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    I've never commissioned a pipe but if I did I would be looking at just about the exact same shape as you Pipe Monk. I've sent emails back and forth w/ Michael Parks and would highly suggest him for the shape you're looking at. Good luck w/ the project and I'll be looking forward to seeing the progress.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  4. misterlowercase

    misterlowercase

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    Asteriou

    You cannot go wrong with Asteriou,
    he is currently the best in the business imho,
    nobody else can nail the classic British character like he can.

    Another top choice, as mentioned above, should be Michael Parks.

    Michael Lindner as well.

    Gustavo Cunha (Martelo) is also a good candidate.

    Jack Howell too.

    Wayne Teipen would set you up.

    Royal Oak Briars.

    Scottie Piersel will knock one out of the park for you.

    ...
    Many great candidates out there,
    it will be a very cool collection when you are done with it,
    I love a focus like that!

    Most importantly,
    have fun and ask lots of questions.

    The whole interactive experience of pipe commissions adds a tremendous value in my eyes,
    it really is enjoyable,
    and a learning process as well.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  5. disinformatique

    The Pipe Monk

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    @Pitch Even I haven't seen a Butera Prince. Mike was gracious enough to grant me a commission in 2014 for one of his affordable options. I was mailed by a friend a few days ago that my pipe was finally ready. As Mike is a regular at the Houston Pipe Club and I have a little history with the club (designed their logo). It would be fun to see a Butera Prince.

    @meatball & MLC I had Parks in my mind but wanted a little affirmation. I totally forgot about Scottie, she makes fabulous pipes. Lindner currently is wayyyy out of my league but perhaps in a couple of years I can afford his pipes. I love Wayne's work. I missed the other makers you suggested. I am in love with Howell's Copper Clam pipes. I think in the end it will end up being a 14 day set but oh boy that means atleast 4 years of not buying anything else.

    Chris

    Posted 3 years ago #
  6. ocpsdan

    Dan

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    I bet Joe Hinkle would make one hell of a prince for your set. His skills have seriously improved.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  7. pitchfork

    pitchfork

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    I didn't know Mike Butera still made pipes! That's great to hear. What did you ask him to make for you?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  8. clickklick

    clickklick

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    Clark Layton
    Ryan Alden
    Micah Cryder
    Joe Skoda
    Nate King
    Chheda (Jesse Jones or Premal)
    Nathan Armentrout

    If I was collecting again . . . that would be my list.

    Hobbyist Pipemaker - Carmette Pipes
    Posted 3 years ago #
  9. disinformatique

    The Pipe Monk

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    Pitch, Mike makes around 20-30 pipes a year for his collectors. Most are high grades, I have no idea what he is making. My first commission with any piper maker I let them decide after an initial introduction about me and a little paragraph I send to them about myself. All I know is that the bill will be around $300-$600.

    @Dan thanks brother, I will check Joe's work out.

    Chris

    Posted 3 years ago #
  10. pitchfork

    pitchfork

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    Chris, that's very exciting about the Butera pipe. Can't wait to see what he made for you.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  11. peckinpahhombre

    peckinpahhombre

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    Nice idea. Here is a pic of a prince that Michael Parks did for another pipesmoker. I love the Butera idea and would also love to see Asteriou's take on the shape.




    :

    Posted 3 years ago #
  12. peckinpahhombre

    peckinpahhombre

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  13. mothernaturewilleatusallforbreakfast

    mothernature

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    Kyriazanos

    Posted 3 years ago #
  14. ssjones

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    Chris Asteriou absolutely makes a wonderful Prince shape.

    If you don't want to spend a lot of money, a GBD shape 357 is a classic Prince. Here's a Prehistoric that I restored and sold a few years ago (not a fan of Perspex stems).

    Al

    Posted 3 years ago #
  15. ssjones

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    Trevor Talbert also makes some Prince shapes, in his Ligne Bretagne line.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  16. tarheel1

    tarheel1

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    Of course my favorite makers right now are from Brittan. My list would be
    Les Wood of Ferndown
    Chris Askwith
    Jimmy Craig of Ashton
    And iian Walker of Northern Briars.

    I am in contact with each artist and happy with how easy they are to work with.

    I am glad I could inspire someone.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  17. disinformatique

    The Pipe Monk

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    @Pitch Will post as soon as I get the pipe.

    @Peck Exquisite beauties, makes me wish I had taken law in college instead of trying to be a doctor and ended up being a User Experience Project Manager

    @ssjones Al, send any GBD Prehistorics you restore my way. I'll just have to send you $500. Chris Asteriou indeed is currently the King of Prince when it comes to young PipeMakers. I think the list will be more than just 7 pipe makers! However, I want to include Les Wood, John Marshall, too bad Bary Jones retired, but if someone can get me his info I can personally meet him when I visit UK. I plan the same with John Marshall as well and other British pipe makers.

    This set however will take a few years to complete, maybe 2 pipes a year if I can control myself and save some pocket money otherwise I just have to ask Peck to fund my immigration to Canada

    Chris

    Posted 3 years ago #
  18. tarheel1

    tarheel1

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    http://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/estate/england/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=139822

    You could always have Les make you a prince like this with two stems. He should be able to do it in any size from 1-3*

    Posted 3 years ago #
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    moriarty

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    Great idea for a 7-day set. I love princes. So much more elegant than a pot shape if (like me) you favour a broader, shallower chamber.

    I think the old Dunhill pipe that was the inspiration for the set is the archetype and I would suggest you consider a Dunhill shell briar prince with a silver ferrule as part of the set. Dunhill were making them in the 1920s, immediately after (I think) Loewe originated the prince shape. So, as Dunhill is the only remaining great old English pipemaker, this is the definitive prince archetype. Or if you can find a good old estate English prince from Comoy's, Barling, Loewe, etc. - especially from the 1920s or thereabouts - that would be a really nice part of the set. Or get an old one and the equivalent new Dunhill model.

    Alpascia.com in Milan is a great online vendor for Dunhills and the prices are far lower than what Dunhills retail for in America (why are Dunhills so overpriced in America?). I can see they have a bunch of princes on their site now, group 4 size is my idea of the right size for a prince. They ship globally for free, by the way. Also here's a Dunhill shell on Iwan Ries that is also group 4 and priced well.

    Iwan Ries Dunhill Prince

    Otherwise, I echo the thoughts above about Michael Parks, Chris Asteriou and Michael Lindner. I have princes from all of these pipemakers and they're all superb. The Parks that Peck showed is just fantastic, and it is really a perfect example of what a traditional shell briar prince could be as a hand made pipe from a master. I don't think Michael Parks is any less expensive than Michael Lindner, though. I guess you'd be looking at $700-800 for a sandblast like this either way. Chris Asteriou would probably be about the same price range for a smooth, but perhaps $500-600 for a sandblast, I guess.

    I have several princes from Chris Askwith and this shape has almost become his signature, he makes so many. He is very reasonably priced and offers a lot of choices of finish and stem/ferrule materials, as well as strawberry wood and morta for the stummel. It might be nice to have a morta or strawberry wood (or both) in the set.

    All of the recommendations I see above are good ones. I'd suggest you do a search and look at other examples of their work to check that their style appeals to you. For example, a Michael Lindner prince is not going to look exactly like a Dunhill prince - that's just not the kind of pipe he makes - but I love his style of prince on its own merits. Chris Asteriou is much more of a traditionalist. Michael Parks would probably make it however you want and when I commissioned a prince from him the first thing he did was send me a range of photos of different ones to help clarify my vision for the pipe.

    Good luck with the set. I hope you'll post each one that you buy as you progress the set.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  20. ssjones

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    My Askwith Prince is an outstanding pipe and smoker. I really like the polyester stem.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  21. misterlowercase

    misterlowercase

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    Great post moriarty.
    Well done.

    Dunhill were making them in the 1920s, immediately after (I think) Loewe originated the prince shape. So, as Dunhill is the only remaining great old English pipemaker, this is the definitive prince archetype. Or if you can find a good old estate English prince from Comoy's, Barling, Loewe, etc. - especially from the 1920s or thereabouts - that would be a really nice part of the set. Or get an old one and the equivalent new Dunhill model.

    Most excellent,
    yes.

    To me this is indeed the archetypal English shape and it just screams prime-time pipedom of the late teens and early 20's.

    A stone cold classic if there ever was one.

    And you're also correct that just about all of the hallowed British marques made an example of one.

    Here's a Loewe:

    Barling:

    ...and an old Orlik Dugout that I have,
    sadly rather abused, errr well-loved that is, and missing silver ferrule,
    but I love it nonetheless...


    Chris Asteriou indeed is currently the King of Prince when it comes to young PipeMakers.

    Monk,
    I'd have to agree.

    He is also an avid collector,
    he is very intimate with these things,
    here's a Barling from his collection:


    I can't believe that this pic hasn't been posted yet, especially since GLP is the catalyst for the burning desire
    -- he is a talented photographer...

    ...here's one of his Comoy's:

    Posted 3 years ago #
  22. stanlaurel

    stanlaurel

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    I have always wanted a Stephen Downie prince. He is a master of this shape.

    Here is his site.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  23. disinformatique

    The Pipe Monk

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    @Pitch Hopefully Mike will send it out to me in a few months after tax season. I have pay a few pipe makers and traders first lol.

    @Moriarty what a fantastic and inspirational post. I didnt named all the pipe makers in my list as I wanted the veteran's views as well. All the photos here in this thread will go to every pipe maker who will make the pipe for the set.

    @Tarheel Les Wood is in my list for the prince as well brother. I am working on the Monk Pipes stamp design and getting it made before I commission any of the pipes. It will be a named set from 7 different Masters, will come in a custom made collector's box and personally signed by the 7 pipe makers. It's a grand and expensive side project but will allow me not to spend on pipes elsewhere.

    @MLC Awesome collection brother, plus Chris also has a fantastic collection. I purposefully stayed away from any other prince GLP has in his collection, its too big of a temptation. Work on the first pipe will begin in June this year after I've sorted out the stamp design and production.

    @Stanlaurel Downie makes wonderful pipes !! I want him to make me a LOTR pipe one day.

    Chris

    Posted 3 years ago #
  24. misterlowercase

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    My Eltang Prince, had this made as a commission from Tom.

    Posted 3 years ago #
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    moriarty

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    Pipe Monk, thanks for your comment. Your idea of boxing the set and adding the pipe makers' signatures is a really wonderful one. I'm excited about the project even though it won't be mine.

    I think if I were doing this I would first decide whether I want all the princes to be modelled on a single pipe (i.e. make me your replica of this Dunhill, with a black sandblast and silver flock) or if I'd rather have a less unified set that is more representative of each pipe maker's style (i.e. make me what you consider to be your version of a prince, entirely in your own style). Or something in-between (e.g. make me a prince along the lines of this Dunhill, but you can vary the finish, colours, bowl shape, flock material or omit the flock, straight vs curved stem, bowl material, or whatever). This is a very personal thing and is purely a matter of how you would like to envisage the set as a whole - what would satisfy you most when you see them all together in the box. What should be consistent across the set, to define it as a set, and what would you like to be varied across the set to make each pipe distinctive. I think I would at least want to specify the length of the pipes - 6 1/4 inches is my ideal for a prince (that's the Dunhill group 4 length, by the way) - and then the set would look like it belongs together.

    You could also consider having eight spaces in your seven day set - put your inspiration pipe at the top and then have the hand-made artisan versions below, with the maker's signatures.

    I'm kind of hoping you complete the set and then find you don't like princes any more. Then you could sell it to me.

    Posted 3 years ago #
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    moriarty

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    MLC, I'm glad you posted Chris Asteriou's 1920 Barling. I also saved a copy of those photos when I saw him post them somewhere. It's a lovely pipe. One day I'd love to find one of that age and that quality.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  28. georged

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    Adam Davidson brought a matched pair of military Shell-style finish Princes to Chicago a couple years back. They were spectacular. He taught himself how to spin silver so that the "Dunhill vibe" remained intact. (A Dunnie cap's thickness is greater than a repair band, and a section of tubing has no taper. It's a tricky thing to get just right.)

    As far as I know he's made several more as special orders since. Highly recommended.

    Dogs live such short lives... and spend most it waiting for us to come home
    Posted 3 years ago #
  29. disinformatique

    The Pipe Monk

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    @Moriarty thanks for the articulate reply. I don't want the pipe makers to clone the Dunhill Prince at all or for that matter any of the wonderful Princes pictures above but rather take that as an inspiration piece and make their own signature interpretation. Otherwise it will be just a Dunhill copy with neither depth nor soul of its own. What What I want to capture is the essence of it all. There is a big reason we all still hunt for vintage pipes and often pay a lot for them.

    As you observed in the your comment there has to be a unifying factor for 7 different pipes to be called a set. This got me thinking and I think I have to sit down and write down my thoughts on the same. I am doing an experimental pipe with Clark Layton as a warm-up to see how it pans out. I will smoke the pipe for a few months to see if my love for the Prince is eternal or is it just a phase?

    I would request the pipe maker(s) to keep the length consistent, the blast ultra craggy and I definitely want the Dunhill styled army mount, for everything else they have 100% artistic freedom. If Parks wants to make the stain black with red undertones, so be it. If Asteriou wants to blast the pipe and keep it tan, so be it, or if Askwith wants to try his blasted and worn look for the shell he can go ahead and make it. This will keep the set very unique and still be unified. As a designer myself I would definitely be bored with identical looking pipes; after-all, we cant have cake for breakfast, lunch and dinner everyday for the rest of our lives.

    The original inspiration pipe would be the most difficult to obtain as it belongs to Greg Pease and coming across the same style of pipe would require a major effort and a lot of cash, but hey if someone's ready to part with some serious cash after the set is done, I won't mind it at all. I can then work on the second set with one of my other favorite shape the Classic Dunhill Shell P

    Before I even ask any pipe maker to start making a pipe (except the intial Layton pipe), I am designing my own stamp for the set (a simple monogrammed M as in Monk Pipes) from Mike at Creative Mints (Prague), here is an example of his work, my stamp would be less detailed as its nigh difficult to capture such detail in a small metal pipe die.

    I have also to choose a box maker for the set, I just dont want the pipes to be contained in the box, rather the entire set would be a self sufficient unit with enough space for tobacco, tamper and the combined signatured document(s) from the makers. Think of a treasure chest with briar gold in it

    Last but not the least a silver sterling tamper along these lines. I have one of these. I have not thought about the name of the set so it wont Mr. Shakespeare literally but something like this. Maybe a depicting the Prince of Wales himself?

    In the end I will end up with having more than 7 pipes as I am sure I wont be satisfied with every pipe I commission. It will however be a nice long term project and a really classy adventure. Now to get the 93 pipes I bought this year and sell em at a nice margin to kickstart the project sometimes later this year.

    Edit: One thing I wanted to ask, do you think a Gr. 4 dimension will work great for the set or is it good to keep the dimension of the inspiration pipe?

    Cheers,
    Chris

    Posted 3 years ago #
  30. cigrmaster

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    I would consider Ryan Alden, Scott Thile, Jody Davis and Bruce Weaver.

    Harris
    Posted 3 years ago #
  31. data

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    Poul Winsløw

    Posted 3 years ago #
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    jguss

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    "Adam Davidson brought a matched pair of military Shell-style finish Princes to Chicago a couple years back. They were spectacular. He taught himself how to spin silver so that the "Dunhill vibe" remained intact. (A Dunnie cap's thickness is greater than a repair band, and a section of tubing has no taper. It's a tricky thing to get just right.)

    As far as I know he's made several more as special orders since. Highly recommended."

    George, I have one of Adam's princes (it was a commission in mid-2013, I think). Actually, as I recall mine's the first pipe on which Adam did his own silver. It has a very deep and rugged classic Dunhill type blast, a military mount, with a virgin finish. I strongly recommend him to be a candidate for Monk's proposed rotation.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  33. brudnod

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  34. gloucesterman

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    Monk, here is a current Italian carver. He made several pipes for me and I like them all. Moretti Pipes

    His work is very good, prices are very reasonable and he turns the work around quickly. If you want an E-mail address PM me.

    Posted 3 years ago #
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    moriarty

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    Pipe Monk,
    Sadly the Prince of Wales for whom this shape was created, who later (and briefly) became King Edward VIII, was a profoundly unpleasant and stupid man and a fervent supporter of Adolf Hitler. It is said that he argued for Britain to enter the war on Hitler's side, and that he plotted with Hitler to get back his throne after Germany's victory. He considered his younger brother, Prince John to be "more like an animal" because he had autism. I don't know whether this might affect your feelings about commemorating his image in a tamper. But I guess if you wanted to go this way for historical authenticity then I wonder if you could find a contemporary antique image or object of some sort with the Prince's face and cast it into perspex.

    An alternative with none of the moral issues might be to use the heraldic badge of the Prince of Wales in your design (three white feathers with the motto "ich dien" - meaning "I serve"). Variations of this emblem were used by the Princes of Wales since the 14th century, and it is still used by the current Prince of Wales. You're probably aware that the Prince of Wales title is conventionally bestowed on the first heir to the British throne. With a bit of research you could find how the badge was designed in the 1920s. This is the present design, which Prince Charles uses.

    Posted 3 years ago #
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    moriarty

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    Pipe Monk, you asked a question about the size of the pipes and whether they should follow the size of the inspiration pipe. I don't think they have to be the same at all. I personally like a group 4 sized prince. I don't see any issue with including a smaller 1920s pipe in the display. Although my guess is that the older English princes would frequently be group 4 size as well. I don't think it matters. But this is a purely aesthetic choice and depends entirely on your own feelings.

    By the way, all of your ideas about the pipes and the accessories seem very cool to me. You're really going for it in style, and you have put a lot of thought into it. It is going to be something special, no matter which pipe makers you select.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  37. ssjones

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  38. disinformatique

    The Pipe Monk

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    @mothernature Kyriazanos is definitely one of the best pipe makers.

    @ssjones wow those are some awesome Prince pipes. I am broke for a few months or I would have gotten the Prince you posted.

    @bubbleheaddiver Eltang is definitely the Danish living masters in my list. I will be including him in the set.

    @MLC wow those Princes are perfect !! I must have atleast one Loewe Prince shapes. Chris is definitely on my list. Man I think the 7 day set will become a 14 day set easily. So many talented pipe makers in the list, its mindboggling. I would love a Blue Riband Prince in my Comoy's Collection.

    @georged That is impressive George, I would definitely talk to Adam about the project. I havent seen much of his work but will do now.

    @clicklick Adam that is one fine list of pipe makers buddy. I think I will collect all the names and let The Dark Lord select 7 or 14 for me.

    @cigrmaster WOW what a lineup

    @data I have to talk to Poul if he is comfy doing silverwork He is indeed one of the great Danish Masters.

    @jguss Going to checkout Adam's work.

    @gloucesterman Awesome, I'll have a chat with him.

    @moriarty Somehow the history went under my radar. We all know how crazy James was The coat of arms is a far superior concept and I love it !! Being a designer I have a serious afflication of doing thing or atleast conceptualizing things Grande There are so many talented pipe makers and leaving anyone out of the list seems difficult. I would have to ask the Dark Lord himself to select 7 for me.

    Gr. 4 sees a definite for me, not too big nor too small. Perfect for a 60-90 minute smoke. Just a little update, Clark will be working on Pipe Zero, will see how it pans and if I even love it enough to make a multi-thousand dollar set.

    Cheers,
    Chris

    Posted 3 years ago #
  39. misterlowercase

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    Moriarty,
    you make a most excellent point and offer a wonderful solution with the heraldic badge,
    well done!

    The King's Speech includes some of those craven aspects associated with the man himself, and anyway that movie is deffo worth watching because it is just damn good.

    Monk,
    if you haven't seen it, check the movie out.

    And,
    I'm getting excited just to see how all of this progresses along.

    This is a great thread!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  40. misterlowercase

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    Here's a couple of army mount prince adverts circa 1921/22...

    :

    Posted 3 years ago #
  41. glpease

    glpease

    Lord Latakia
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    This thread is reminding me why the prince is, and always has been, amongst my absolute faves. I'm not sure I'm happy for the love they're getting, though. Time wasn't so far back when people didn't dig 'em, and they'd show up on ebay and estate pages with little competition for their acquisition. The same was once true for lovats, classic GBDs and Castello 55s. Things are different now. My crystal ball seems to somehow predict trends...

    Posted 3 years ago #
  42. mso489

    mso489

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    I admire the discipline of putting together an artisanal set of one shape. The ones pictured are fine examples. I'd second the Les Wood commission. I'd leave out Dunhills because they are not artisanal, but they are the great center of the shape and do some beautiful versions.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  43. disinformatique

    The Pipe Monk

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    @GLPease, Greg I have always been a paramour for the classic, be it my love for older gramophones (turntables), Leica cameras, Vespa Scooters, Ceramic figurines, Japanese Bonsai or the Classic Pipe Shapes.

    I understand when you say you are not particularly liking the trendy attention they are getting now, but trust me, I rarely go with the current trends or the new shineys. I learned photography using a Nikon F80 instead of a D70 way back in the early 2000's. My absolutely favorite pipe shape is the bent bulldog and guess what? I have zero in possession currently (excluding the ones I have in the US) but have 2 Princes in my rotation. A John Aylesbury 406 by Peterson and a Ropp EUG R49 Prince. A Comoy 337 in restoration and actively seeking the Dunhill Prince with the silver army mount like yours.

    I like what your crystal ball is showing to the younger generation of pipe smokers. To keep the love for the classic going.

    @mso The Classic 1920-1940's Dunhill Shell Prince in the silver army mount is the inspiration. I wont be including it in the artisanal set. I also started the idea of this 7 day set as to restrain myself to overspend on pipes and focus on something bigger and hence work towards it slowly.

    @mlc I would love to get those Dunni Princes in the near future.

    Cheers,
    Chris

    Posted 3 years ago #

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