Weird Policeman Experience

[skydog]

That's not how it works, unless you watch too much TV.

Yup! TV is not your friend if your are seeking facts. Their job is to sell advertising by attracting audiences, building numbers. Again, it all boils done to questioning what you read, hear and see. Hopefully, by refusing to accept what you are fed, at face value, truth will be eventually uncovered. And ... doing that is way to hard or troublesome for many people.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't watch TV or any other form of mass media news. This opinion of mine is based solely on available body-cam videos of wrongful police shootings that I have ran across. It's wonderful being in the 21st century where you can see exactly what the police were seeing when they pulled the trigger. Obviously not every person shot by the police is innocent but what is your threshold for acceptable shootings of innocent people?
I didn't mean to go off an this tangent in this thread by the way. Just the first thing that generally pops in my head when law enforcement interactions come up in discussion because of how final that type of mistake is. Like I said before, in my opinion that type of absolute power should come with being held to a higher standard.

 

[jvnshr]

What an adventure Michael! I am glad that road police in Azerbaijan don't carry a gun. They are not even allowed to ask you to leave your car.

 

[bnichols23]

I also always put both hands on the top of the steering wheel

Same here, hpg. I also (& NO, I DON'T get pulled over on a regular basis, you goofs!) get my wallet out & put it on the dashboard while I'm slowing down to pull over. And yup, interior lights on too. I once had a car where the previous owner had tinted the windows, & the one time I got pulled over in it, I put the left rear window down too. Didn't keep that one long.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Funny to think that we feel like we've survived something that should be routine. I'm pretty sure that I wasn't going to resist enough of anything asked to do to warrant getting shot. I mean, he didn't ask me to eat the ashes or anything... but it was close, or felt like it, ha ha.
I'm just glad someone is out there doing a job that I wouldn't want to do. I'd be one of those cops that preferred to take advantage of free doughnut day at the deli.

 

[warren]

what is your threshold for acceptable shootings of innocent people?

It's simple really, the law. It's all we really have. I certainly wouldn't make a determination based on a few seconds of body cam or cell phone video and/or the accompanying voice over or pundit opinion. And, understand, I'm not in any way implying there are not "bad" shootings. And, you rarely see the footage of the "shooting that was justified and never happened." So, your viewpoint, valid as it may be, is "colored" as so much is missing from the entire circumstance.
Michael, I greatly doubt that would be your preference if you were "on the job." Pastries are great but, nothing close to saving a life or, reuniting a child with a mother or, any number of the rewarding actions that accompany the "job."

 

[aldecaker]

"what is your threshold for acceptable shootings of innocent people?"
I guess I'm kind of a hardass about it, but mine is pretty low. I'm pretty skeptical of anyone being generally "innocent", anyway, but on the side of the road or at a public disturbance is not the place to argue your 1st, 2nd, 4th Amendment or any other rights. We have a system, and in that system the courts are where you do that. If everyone who thinks they are in the right simply doesn't have to comply with a LEO's requests, we have chaos, and few among us want that. "I'm not going to put my hands in the air because I didn't do anything wrong"? Are you freakin' kidding me? At that point, you deserve to be shot for sheer stupidity, if nothing more. Cops react to situations as they are unfolding and try to get them under control. The details, by necessity, are to be sorted out later in quieter, less chaotic circumstances.
Or, maybe I'm just lucky. I've gone 46 years and only very rarely been randomly shot by an enraged cop.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

I agree with the acceptable shooting thing. Why people want to physically attempt to resist arrest, not put their hands in the air or drop their gun or any of that is beyond me. That ends badly 99.99% of the time. From most of the videos I've seen, the police officers involved have generally went further than I would in applying lethal force. I've thankfully only been involved in traffic violations but I've witnessed a few minor encounters in bars or other places. In my experience the police officers have always been polite and more patient than I would have expected or was justified IMHO.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

This really wasn't where I was wanting this to go. This is getting into areas where opinions are hot... and I can't stand people with opinions. ::

 

[aldecaker]

Times change, interest rates fluctuate, threads meander...you know how it is.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

Cosmic, if you provide more precise instructions on how you want the members to respond to your posts .... in all likelihood, we'll ignore you, as usual, and post whatever we wish. :worship:

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I'm just giving a heads up that you guys are walking the political line on this one. And, I would hate to know what one of you thinks politically speaking. It just ruins my opinions of people to know that they are political. ::

 

[PaulTheScandinavian]

Correct me If I'm wrong but my understanding is that in the States to get a job in City Police is not too difficult ,so presumably general requirements for new recruits are kept pretty basic otherwise no would want to enlist there due to pretty low wages and shift work whereas State Trooper Divisions and Marshal Services are much more demanding when it comes to hiring and only a very few among potential applicants would qualify

 

[aldecaker]

Well, Cos, that would be a verrrrry broad use of the word "political", but it could be considered controversial, and that's close enough to get a shutdown usually. So, point well taken.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Not every city has the same requirements, but most here require at least a two-year degree. That is for a local policeman for a city. Then to be a Sherrif, you have to do training and make it through a course to qualify. But, here in Alabama, you can just warden a jail for a few years and then get promoted into the sherrif's dept. And, yes to be a state trooper requires a degree and many hours of training and professional development.
Our policemen do pretty well. Our city policemen drive Lexus and live in the $250,000 and up neighborhoods, Sherrifs do even better, but I am pretty sure that State Troopers don't make as much. I don't know for sure, but I think they make about as much as a teacher, which is like $28,000 a year.
City police and sheriffs make their money on seizing properties of those that they suspect of drug dealing. Suspicion is enough in our state. It doesn't require a conviction, and they don't have to give it back if found innocent. They can fund their whole departments this way. But, state troopers don't have that luxury... and there are way less of them in my state. We barely have any state police force at all. This is why it is ok to speed on the interstate, because I have never seen a state trooper on it... in like twenty years of driving on it. Expect 100mph speeds at mid day.

 

[didimauw]

Cosmic, stop acting like a teenager, and you will stop getting pulled over and treated like one! Haha you damn kids these days...

 

[warren]

Way too general on the assumptions Paul. My department, a city one, was among, still is I think, one of the highest paid in the US. Required for employment is a written test (pass/fail), a physical agility and endurance test (pass/fail), psychological screening, oral interviews, background check (work history, interviews of friends, relatives, co-workers, and past employers), medical exam and a polygraph (lie detector, pass/fail)examination. When I was doing the pre-employment screening I might start with a pool of 1200 applicants (those that passed the initial written examination) for six openings on the department. Of that starting number I might have 25 eligible for hire at the send of the cycle.
Every state, I believe, now requires a "state certification prior to employment or, upon graduation from an accredited academy. Of course, the requirements of such a certification vary widely from state to state. The US Marshals Service is the Federal Government's "police department" and their pre-hiring requirements were less stringent than my Department's was at that time.
Law Enforcement, as a profession, unfortunately attracts all sorts of weirdos of which most are screened out early. This no different from other professions, teaching, nursing, doctors, shrinks, politicians, producers, etc. where the practitioner has the client/perp/patient/student/customer at a disadvantage from the initial contact. It takes a certain personality to not abuse that situation at times. Some have it ... some don't.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

Law Enforcement, as a profession, unfortunately attracts all sorts of weirdos of which most are screened out early.

There is no escaping the 95/5 rule. Regardless of race, religion, creed, culture, profession, etc., around 95% of all people are good people and 5% are A-holes.

 

[aldecaker]

Your charitable estimate tells me you are a man brimful with the milk of human kindness, Hoosier!

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

I realize my numbers may be a bit on the optimistic side aldecaker.

 

[brian64]

City police and sheriffs make their money on seizing properties of those that they suspect of drug dealing. Suspicion is enough in our state. It doesn't require a conviction, and they don't have to give it back if found innocent. They can fund their whole departments this way.

Yes, the policies governing so-called "asset forfeiture" are a huge problem...and one of the biggest reasons for corruption in law enforcement.
As for cases of wrongful use of force, the militarization of police training...and of police in general...over the last few decades, mostly in the name of the so-called "war on drugs" is what has led to numerous incidents of overreaction...sometimes deadly overreaction.
As Skydog said, there have been many videos of blatantly unjustified use of force...shootings as well as other tactics.
But most of the worst of these cases have NOT been the ones that were widely publicized by the MSM.
I do believe that the great majority of "LEOs" are good guys...but there is a tendency for them to circle the wagons any time one of their comrades does something indefensible.