Two of My Favorites Moldy

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May 5, 2014
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Let me start by saying I work at small shop and pushed really hard to get C&D Blends in my shop. Also Five O'Clock Shadow and Kajun Kake are two of my top ten blends. The staff at C&D has been magnificent dealing with my inquiries (whether personal or business).

I want you all to know that I have found mold in my personal tins. The Kajun Kake was tinned in June and September of 2014; as well as June 2015. The Five O'clock Shadow was from February 2014.

My friends/customers have also found mold in Kajun Kake from December 2015, Bijou from April 2016, Five O'clock Shadow from December 2014, Sunday Picnic, and of course the recalled Carolina Small Batch.

I love Kajun Kake and Five O'clock Shadow; and truly have enjoyed Bijou...but if y'all cellar like I do, I wanted you to at least check the tins with the dates I've listed above. Idk the cause, but I hope it's fixed soon. Would love to feel "safe" cellaring these blends again (opened all my jars of these blends and am thinking I should open all my Pease and C&D blends)...I really hope an explanation can be given to put my mind at ease.

Have a good day guys

 

litup

Member
Oct 16, 2015
181
9
Sacramento, CA
They issued a total recall for one of the small batch blends they made for SPC because of mold. I think it was the pure Virginia batch.
Based on your experience, it sounds like their problem isn't limited to that one blend. I would recommend people open their tins and check for mold and if they are mold free you can cellar it in a mason jar.

 

jacks6

Preferred Member
May 9, 2016
1,019
0
Shit. Most of my cellar is C&D or GLP and I really don't want to open each and every one of them. I've never had a problem personally but this is primarily what I was stocking up on before tobaccopocalypse. My worry though is opening a tin 5 or 10 years down the road and the company policies for returning them is not the same..

 

chasingembers

Preferred Member
Nov 12, 2014
15,533
161
Posted a thread last week about moldy Bijou. Sounds like a red Virginia mold issue. The guys at SPC gratiously replaced my tin though.

 

sablebrush52

Preferred Member
Jun 15, 2013
9,609
106
I'm sorry to hear about the mold. I don't buy C&D, but I do buy Pease, and this really worries me. I don't think I will be buying any more from either line as I don't need the problem and there are other choices of make that I like. While I appreciate C&D's commitment to keeping their product natural, these sorts of reports leave me with the view that they don't know how to do that consistently. That leaves buying their output something of a gamble.

 

zekest

Preferred Member
Apr 1, 2013
1,137
0
Son, tobacco smoke will kill you long before a little mold will.
Just smoke it.

 

zitotczito

Preferred Member
Aug 12, 2014
1,086
2
I just checked and I have 40 tins of C&D blends and 12 lbs of bulk. I just checked the mason jars and no mold that I can see on the bulk blends. My tin of Bijou is dated 04/2016 and I have not opened it and it's to much trouble to jar the 40 tins so I will take my chances. What I can say is that I will not be buying any more of C&D blends, it's just not worth the risk. I have been buying to cellar for all the reasons previously discussed (FDA, etc,)and have thousands of dollars invested in this and since it will be years before I can get to all of it, no point again in taking a chance.

 

andrew

Preferred Member
Feb 13, 2013
2,883
0
C&D Says they are only aware of this one tin having mold.
From the last thread about C&D mold. This response to me isn't valid as there are reports of moldy tins going back to 2013 at least. I'm not going to chance it and buy any products that they blend until this issue has been sorted out.

https://www.google.ca/?gws_rd=ssl#q=cornell+and+diehl+mold

A simply search shows this isn't a surprise and has been an ongoing thing.

 

newbroom

Preferred Member
Jul 11, 2014
5,493
3
If you listen to this week's radio 'cast' with Mike McNeil, he seems to allude to the improbability of conveying the art and mastery of tobacco within a brief period of time.

Brian asked him if he was grooming and training someone to carry on the McLelland line of tobacco that only he and his wife have produced till now. He said that was an impossibility and that there is no one who could do what he does. I believe him.

I thought about the relatively recent changes at C&D, and wondered if recent problems with their tobacco could be a result of inexperience?

Whatever the reasons for this trend to mold...we, as loyal consumers, deserve to be apprised and appeased.

 

jerwynn

Preferred Member
Dec 7, 2011
1,035
0
More than half my cellar is GLP... and when Bijou came out, I bought one to try and then 5 more for aging. I know this is nothing compared to some of the Wallmart-sized cellars some of the fellers here have, but I just pray the mold-gods will stay away from here. I've NEVER had a moldy GLP tin, even several that were open for several years before being finished. And the open Bijou remains fine. Live and hope.

 

bigpond

Preferred Member
Oct 14, 2014
2,024
0
Son, tobacco smoke will kill you long before a little mold will.
Just smoke it.
Keep telling yourself that.
Brian asked him if he was grooming and training someone to carry on the McLelland line of tobacco that only he and his wife have produced till now. He said that was an impossibility and that there is no one who could do what he does. I believe him.
Well, how did the McClellend's get their start? Not trolling you, I just don't have time to listen to the podcasts sadly.

 

andrew

Preferred Member
Feb 13, 2013
2,883
0
One video I saw on a moldy batch of Kajun kake the guy got a replacement tin from the same lot and it was moldy too. I think lot numbers may help determining this. Also when did C&D switch ownership as they were having this problem with Subday picnic and Kajun kake back in 2013

 

newbroom

Preferred Member
Jul 11, 2014
5,493
3
I'm not sure how he got his start. There are two shows and they're basically monologues by Mr. McNeil. He's been around doing his thing and perfecting it for about 50 years. His wife is integral to their operation and his reputation for his own unique precision sounds legendary.

Too bad you don't have time to listen. No car rides to work? I usually listen on Wed. mornings on replay.

They're always available, so, you could find the time if you were so inclined.

 

jpmcwjr

Preferred Member
May 12, 2015
13,533
135
Monterey Peninsula
There are good molds and bad molds. Can a layman tell the difference? I love the molds that make my cheeses, and I don't think we'd have penicillin without it, but.....
I doubt very much that smoking a bit of tobacco that has had the mold scraped off (leaving some, that is) or the bits with mold thrown out, would be harmful much less fatal. Nor affect the taste of the tobacco.
But then, I am just blowing smoke at this. Does anyone really know?
Also does anyone know the threshold of moisture present to be conducive to growing mold?

 

hiplainsdrifter

Preferred Member
Jan 8, 2012
976
0
I am thankful that I haven't really gotten into C&D blends at all. I do have some GLP in the cellar, but mostly latakia blends. Something about C&D's ENORMOUS catalog has always put me off. I guess McClelland is no better in that regard. It seems like most tobacco companies could eliminate 80% of their offerings and just focus on a few really good blends that they make. Unfortunately for those who like variety, that might be exactly the way things look in a few years. 8O

 

pagan

Preferred Member
May 6, 2016
5,904
0
West Texas
Shit. Most of my cellar is C&D or GLP and I really don't want to open each and every one of them. I've never had a problem personally but this is primarily what I was stocking up on before tobaccopocalypse. My worry though is opening a tin 5 or 10 years down the road and the company policies for returning them is not the same..
Id suggest contacting the company and send it all back in exchange for fresh tins, if they issued a recall they should honor your request

 

andrew

Preferred Member
Feb 13, 2013
2,883
0
If your GL Pease is from before C&D took over blending it will be fine and probably quite collectable one day. I also wouldn't bother getting new tins until they've got this problem under control. For international customers it's not worth the risk especially as you could be hit with customs fees twice, once for the original tin then again for the replacement

 

tedswearingen

Senior Member
Sep 14, 2010
313
0
Longs, South Carolina
All,
I've worked in the tobacco business for six years now. One thing I've learned is that there are manufacturing trade-offs. Some manufacturers are lauded for their very light hand with additives such as Propylene Glycol and mold inhibitors. Other manufacturers' heavy use of PG and other additives is decried. Cornell & Diehl is, of course, in that first camp. It also means that those manufacturers suffer more problems like these in general, in much the same way that fresh bread without preservatives will mold, but Twinkies and Ding Dongs have a very long shelf life.
Manufacturers create defective products. It is inevitable, and it ought to be expected and manageable. The rate at which a manufacturer does so create defective products, however, is key. Before Laudisi merged with Cornell & Diehl its product failure rate--of all sorts--was probably in the neighbor of one out of 3,000 units; and I say probably because there then didn't exist any real way to keep track of such things. Though it's not terrible, this isn't a great number, and it's a problem we intended to sort out as we merged our two companies Presently C&D's product failure rate across its entire line of products is in the neighborhood of 1 out of every 10,000 units, excluding Carolina Red Flake. We've done this by improving our staff's training, improving the sanitary conditions of the plant, upgrading our machinery, and, most recently, switching to a new mold inhibitor.
Historically, C&D used a mold inhibitor that worked particularly well for its Virginias but not so well with Burley and Perique. This is why, when those defective tins of C&D would crop up from, say, 2013, 2014, even 2015, it's been localized to products like Kajun Kake. The new mold inhibitor, which we switched to in mid-May of this year, covers a wider pH spectrum, and works well to protect more alkaline leaf components like Burley and Perique.
Carolina Red Flake was our first real run of product to use the new mold inhibitor. We learned something about the leaf and, subsequent to that, we learned something of our new mold inhibitor, and since then we've reformulated the application solution. To date we've had no reports of mold on any of our products made with the reformulated mold inhibitor. But I should be clear: there's no silver bullet solution. (q.v. the first sentence of the second paragraph of this post.)
For those customers sitting on moldy tins of Kajun Kake or Five O'Clock Shadow or other blends made before June, or made last year, or the year before, or back in Morganton before C&D and Laudisi merged—reach out to C&D and we'll work with you to make it right. In fact, if you ever have a problem our a question about a C&D product, whenever it was made, contact us.
As far as the concern about Bijou goes: as of this writing we know of exactly nine tins of Bijou that have been affected by mold. That's 0.35% of the production—higher than we'd like, but put into perspective, not as serious or wide spread a problem as perceived here and elsewhere across the popular online pipe tobacco forums. Likewise, if a rash of defective tins are concentrated with a certain very popular retailer with a vocal and visible customer base, the problem looks rather different than it actually is.
Everybody here at Laudisi and Cornell & Diehl is deeply disturbed at the notion that we sent out tobacco that didn't meet our standards for shelf life. But, as a manufacturer, it would it irresponsible on our part to assume that it's not going to happen. And so we're always working to improve our operation and the quality of our product. And, though there will always be work to be done, we're at least headed in the right direction.
But seriously. If you have a problem call us or email us and we will take care of you.