Ten Years of Banned Smoking in England

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brightleaf

Part of the Furniture Now
Sep 4, 2017
555
4
The author pretend to be a libertarian but acts more like a change agent. He talks about the bartender's rights in a private club needing to be protected. Are bartender's in private clubs appointed their job by the government? I have heard of cradle to grave plans and school to work government plans, used to control every aspect of a person's life, but I doubt that job placement is enforced in any country.

 

deathmetal

Lifer
Jul 21, 2015
7,714
32
I think society is shifting from a bureaucracy that tries to manage our lives to a competitive arena where those who do it right survive and the others end up in the poorhouse. Personally, I find this encouraging; people are not punished enough for stupidity and incompetence, while the competent are endlessly punished with a need to subsidize the weak.

 

pappymac

Lifer
Feb 26, 2015
3,273
4,268
I will have to search for the link, but I recently read an article which pointed out that the whole issue of second hand smoke is based on faulty science. It started with a study done in Idaho or Montana which showed a dramatic decrease in heart attacks among non-smokers after a smoking ban was initiated. Problem was the study was only about 300 or so subjects and didn't take into account other factors such as a change in diet. Other's seized upon the data and used it to justify bans.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,433
Is Western Civilization dying or just waking up to not being the only history in town? Of course, if we nuke ourselves, people and a majority of animal species will go extinct, immediately or shortly, but we could work against that. In Shakespeare, when the play becomes luridly tragic, Will brings on the comedy.

 

perdurabo

Lifer
Jun 3, 2015
3,305
1,575
What history is more important than a society that elevates the Individual above a collective or a monarch?

 

lazar

Can't Leave
May 5, 2015
445
3
mso489 wins.
As for Western Civilization dying, nobody wants to live in that shithole Sweden, anyway. There must be something wrong with a place that is consistently ranked in top 10 happiest places to live on Earth. :wink: I'll give you the UK, though - they're committing slow, painful self-harm by leaving the EU and will be like an amputated limb floating in the sea....

 

brightleaf

Part of the Furniture Now
Sep 4, 2017
555
4
Oh I get it now. I do not think Western Civilization is dying, but I think freedom is.

 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
11,699
16,207
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
The EU purchased a few countries some years ago with huge outlays of moneys.. Now, with the moneys drying up, centuries old animosities are rising. I'd give the EU only a few more years before it settles into a fairly loose confederation, based on trade, of exclusively northern European countries. It can't survive as currently structured with the successful northern countries underwriting the southerly ones.
The French, like the English do not like being under the German boot. The Irish sold their birthright for a lot of money. It took them seven centuries to gain their freedom from England and they passed it on to the EU for coin which is now, long gone, only a memory. That won't last either. The Irish are not happy sharing their fishing areas with the Spanish and, in the country, turf cutters wish to continue their livelihood.

 

lazar

Can't Leave
May 5, 2015
445
3
Nobody is under anybody's boot in the EU, and they all remain sovereign nations despite the propaganda. The fortunes of the UK and Ireland are directly related to EU membership benefits, and Ireland is extremely pro-EU. This idea that the EU is some monolithic evil empire imposing its will on these poor countries and depriving them of their freedom is one of the biggest snake-oil cons on the century. These countries ARE the EU, and have an equal say in what it does.

 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
11,699
16,207
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
Please, parse my statements more closely. "monolithic evil empire" are your words, not mine.
Dublin is pro-EU. That I'll grant you. Get into the hinterlands and you get an entirely different perspective. Sovereign nations? To a limited extent yes. Certain rights have been left them, others ceded to the EU.
You can't disagree that the poorer member nations reap the benefits of the union while contributing little. I'm simply stating that certain rights have been ceded to the EU and that many people are unhappy with that and, as currently constructed, the EU cannot possibly survive. Why? Too much historical baggage, too much slaughter in past years, years of distrust. Support for the EU is predominantly in the large cities. Too many people in the hinterlands are unhappy at the loss of their livelihoods and many restrictions, forced sharing of resources, is slowly eroding support.
I have no doubt that the EU will survive in the form of a "trading union" where individual members will be deciding what is best for their country, not an international, self-serving bunch of bureaucrats. Those days are melting away with the rise in nationalism. Even Soros has voiced despair more than once that his vision may not come to fruition.

 

davek

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 20, 2014
685
952
This.
The big secret will come out some day, which is that most cancers are related to industrial pollution. Smoking is a convenient scapegoat; certainly it is likely that inhaling any kind of particulate smoke will increase the risk, but for whatever reason, the blame is over-stated in my view.
Smoking is cancer causing for sure. But industrial pollution is as big a cause. Cancer is an industrial disease and much more common now that hundreds of years ago. The point being that, while smokers are targeted, nothing is done about the other. ($$$)

 

perdurabo

Lifer
Jun 3, 2015
3,305
1,575
I'm not being rude, but I love when Europe is sighted as some great place to live. And granted it's probably just as good as living almost anywhere else in the world. If it's such a wonderfu/happy place why not pack up and move there?

 

lazar

Can't Leave
May 5, 2015
445
3
Pedurabo - I lived there for 20 years, came back to the U.S a few years ago for family reasons, and am planning on returning to Europe as soon as possible. For

many reasons. But I'm lucky in being legally able to do so. For most people it's not easy to just pack up and move to a foreign country, not only the red tape but also family responsibilities, finances, work, language, etc.
As for nationalism, I believe the recent surges are the dead-cat-bounce of a failed and dying ideology. It has never lasted long in the past and it's far too late for it now.

 

brightleaf

Part of the Furniture Now
Sep 4, 2017
555
4
"As for nationalism, I believe the recent surges are the dead-cat-bounce of a failed and dying ideology. It has never lasted long in the past and it's far too late for it now."
The plans to destroy nationalism have been in progress for a long time. About a hundred years ago H.G. Wells, through the writing of many books, laid out the plans for world socialism and world government, plans that were diligently followed by Western Civilization. I do recall him being especially frustrated by the British and their tendency towards nationalism, but he stressed the same formula for it's "cure." Education of the children in public schools. With some countries in the E.U banning home school, and the significant passage of time since these plans have been under way, I tend to agree with lazar about it being too late now. It could be that there is more to Europe than Wells understood, and the cause of his frustration may be more deep rooted than he guessed.
There are many lessons in history to study, and people have access to more knowledge than ever before. What the outcome will be is unknown. Will people put up with a ban on smoking forever? I don't think so. Most of the money that pays for anti-smoking propaganda and anti-smoking research comes from the big tobacco companies as tribute, due to their defeat in the courtroom. Once they go bankrupt who will finance all of the anti-tobacco propaganda and anti-smoking research? The antis are not going to pay out of their own pockets.

 

deathmetal

Lifer
Jul 21, 2015
7,714
32
But industrial pollution is as big a cause. Cancer is an industrial disease and much more common now that hundreds of years ago. The point being that, while smokers are targeted, nothing is done about the other.
It's much easier to beat up on smokers than do something about industrial pollution. Good point.
There are many lessons in history to study, and people have access to more knowledge than ever before.
And world IQ is dropping, so they will stare at that knowledge and then think, "I know! I'll go see what Kim K is up to."

 

ericusrex

Lifer
Feb 27, 2015
1,175
3
Down with the Gubmint!
Libertarians are the biggest bunch of whiny, selfish, hypocritical fools this country has ever seen.

 
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